Triggered about SOs

I am not generalizing DID. It doesn't even matter if someone has DID or not. If another person, than that person themself has more power over their mind, it is dangerous, with or without DID. If you are unable to understand why, I can't help you.

I have not said outside people always leave. I made that example so that you would see what the results of being dependent on someone are. But if that person stays there for the rest of their life having that control, it's still not a good and healthy thing to have.

The way you described your boundaries, Dwelt, didn't sound to me they are strong at all. That is why people who have propensity to cross other peoples boundaries spot you from the group and you end up the same. Then you can't keep your boundaries up, but instead need to eventually escape. I lack boundaries to the point, I've chosen to live alone too. I can't deal with human relationships, because they feel like a job to me. Separating myself from world is not having healthy or high boundaries. It's the opposite of it, unhealthy coping mechanism to not having them. I need to be very aware of everything all the time, avoid and escape. I'm not easily victimized by anyone, because I won't give them a chance to do it.

The difference between you and me is that I don't feel lonely, I feel relieved. I'm not stupid tho, that is why I have Fourteen. That is why he is so troubled. He has had the loneliness and needs from me, without any chance to get them fulfilled. I separated those needs as a teen, that's when it would've gotten overwhelming otherwise. And I have made huge mistake with him before. I let him meet outside people, but when anything negative happens, he crumbles into pieces. I didn't know what to do better until I realized I am someone too and he really is separate from me. I am an adult in our system, and he is a teen holding my traumas. It's time for me to help him. We have all he needs inside. He has safe environment, we even have a trauma therapist, inside and outside. He has several grown ups ready to help him, when he stays inside and comes out in controlled environment. And that is how he can stay until he gets better, and can meet outside people again as a stronger person. And he doesn't need to get broken if they are not worth of his trust, because he has several helpers inside being on his side. He won't be alone ever anymore. I love him and will take care of him, he has certainly deserved it after all he has done for me. I hope I can take his burden away. He doesn't need to be lonely anymore, but maybe I can learn how to bear that feeling and take it away from him. And with that feeling I am healthier than I am now, when I don't have any need for human affection. I know it's gonna hurt, but the chances are to keep up hurting an innocent teenager who is trapped inside a system he can't escape, or me starting to deal with my own traumas.

Having true commitment and affection for yourself, is the way healthy people are. And in systems that yourself means all of you. Of course it's hard to be that, because in order to have that you would've needed that same thing from outside as a kid. That is what healthy people are like. They can have friends and relationships and are trustful without getting overwhelmed, because they have it, they have self worth that is not dependent on anyone's opinion. That is why they don't get dependent on those outside people, or need to avoid them because of lacking boundaries. That is why it is a goal.

It's not fair you need to do it all by yourself in therapy, but that is how you can get better. Traumas are not fair. Also having affection and understanding and forgiveness to yourself, doesn't mean, you can't see other people while you learn to love yourself, and while bigger yous teach little yous they are worth of love.

Having an outsider who thinks you are worth of love too, can of course be a help. It's not called support system for nothing. It is just not enough like that. You need to feel it yourself too. And it's not enough if you think you are worth of love because person X loves you. You are worth of everything also when you're alone and feeling lonely.

I knew when I started this thread some people will be totally clueless and don't understand what am I talking about. I also knew some will know and I think I got my message thru the way I meant to have it. I didn't start this to get involved with anyone's personal lives, or to have anybody to be on my side. I feel I had my point of view heard the way I wanted it to be heard.

Dwelt wrote:To me, healing is about being able to find the right balance between the inside and the outside.

Very well said, Dwelt.

Floralie, here is what I think is going on here. You have things that are an issue for you, namely trust in an outside person and fear of being preyed upon and taken advantage of. So you have set up this idea (and maybe it's right for you) that you can and should only depend on yourself and your insiders. You are projecting these beliefs and fears, which are very real and very true for you, onto EVERYONE who has DID. When it's not necessarily true for everyone with DID to the same extent it's true for you.

Your feelings matter. Your beliefs matter. Your truths matter.... But these are not the feelings, beliefs and truths for everyone with DID, and you are trying to convince everyone that they are. But, I also recognize that you are coming from a place of true concern for that portion of humanity that has DID, because you don't want to see them hurt and made into victims again.

K

Floralie wrote:I knew when I started this thread some people will be totally clueless and don't understand what am I talking about. I also knew some will know and I think I got my message thru the way I meant to have it. I didn't start this to get involved with anyone's personal lives, or to have anybody to be on my side. I feel I had my point of view heard the way I wanted it to be heard.

Though we don't see eye to eye on a lot of this topic, I respect your thoughts and appreciate you sharing your opinions. It helps me understand your point of view. I hope what I have said helps you understand mine. Everyone is different and you have found something that works for you and so have we. I could see both our viewpoints and others resonating with different people.


The only thing I can think to add is an additional difference in SF's system. Inside isn't safe yet like it is for you. There is someone(s) there who will intimidate, lock up, and even abuse the insiders on the inside. As such some went dormant and others hid inside until they couldn't just couldn't stand it anymore. They would jump out to see if there really was this person they heard about who listened, cared about them, and was nice even despite personal risk of punishment from the inside. For them the chance of something better was worth the risk.

Since then, they have been able to work on internal communication. Some had that down early on, but a lot of that really got rolling when we all worked on a jigsaw puzzle together and several in her system would take turns putting in a few pieces then switching out to watch while others did the same. In this way, the outside activity helped develop internal communication.

Floralie wrote:It's not fair you need to do it all by yourself in therapy, but that is how you can get better. Traumas are not fair. Also having affection and understanding and forgiveness to yourself, doesn't mean, you can't see other people while you learn to love yourself, and while bigger yous teach little yous they are worth of love.

I don't think it's possible to do it all by yourself or only in threapy. I think healing is something you have to work on in every aspect of your life. It's a continuous process to work on.

I also don't believe it can be done by ourselves. Your system may be different but I don't believe our big have the capability to to teach our littles what they need. Our littles need to learn how to tolerate there emotions better and have better emotional regulation. In all honesty I think it's our littles that need to teach our big what it means to have rich and fulfilling emotions.

So we need outside people to help with this, we have our T who we hope knows how to help but we aren't sure if we trust her enough to help and we have our SO who we trust enough to help but doesn't really know how. But without them we wouldn't have hope for our future.

Floralie wrote:I knew when I started this thread some people will be totally clueless and don't understand what am I talking about. I also knew some will know and I think I got my message thru the way I meant to have it. I didn't start this to get involved with anyone's personal lives, or to have anybody to be on my side. I feel I had my point of view heard the way I wanted it to be heard.

I'm not sure I've always understood the points you have been trying to make and I definitely haven't always agreed, but I think it's a good topic because it's very thorough provoking. And that is an important part of healing. Considering what is healthy for ourselves and making the best decisions we are able. Weighing the risks against the benefits. Making the most informed decisions we are able to do based on our individual needs.

Floralie wrote:I am not generalizing DID. It doesn't even matter if someone has DID or not. If another person, than that person themself has more power over their mind, it is dangerous, with or without DID. If you are unable to understand why, I can't help you.

I understand why this is dangerous. It was what our entire childhood revolved around : not letting anyone having power over us.
Well, anyway, K from ItsJustUs explained what I wanted to express better than me.

Floralie wrote:The way you described your boundaries, Dwelt, didn't sound to me they are strong at all. That is why people who have propensity to cross other peoples boundaries spot you from the group and you end up the same. Then you can't keep your boundaries up, but instead need to eventually escape. I lack boundaries to the point, I've chosen to live alone too.

They spot me out of the group because I don't judge anyone, I'm kind with everyone and Erdian will talk with everyone, including people who are usually pushed away by the others. We're patient and tolerant, so people feel comfortable with us. They can talk to us about things they never talked before. But most of the people we met who were searching for that also didn't know how to respect boundaries. As we went closer and closer, they started to cross ours, and went upset when we stopped them and asked them to respect our limits.
Once they understood we were'nt going to save them from themselves or always be kind (because most of them saw having boundaries as being mean ), those people tried to start arguments, or to make us feel guilty. Which doesn't work at all with us, so they eventually left.
When we leave it's because communication isn't possible and/or because the relationship doesn't make any sense anymore.

And it's not because I feel lonely that I'm alone. I don't have any close friend, yes, but I still have few friends that are healthy. I feel lonely for two reasons : first because even if they know about our system, most of those friends aren't multiple and can't understand everything, so I can't talk to them about all the things I would want to talk about ; second because we don't know how to ask for help or reassurance, we tend to ask for this inside but we can't always be our own support system, plus we're scared of being emotionnally close to people.

Floralie wrote:Having true commitment and affection for yourself, is the way healthy people are. And in systems that yourself means all of you. Of course it's hard to be that, because in order to have that you would've needed that same thing from outside as a kid. That is what healthy people are like. They can have friends and relationships and are trustful without getting overwhelmed, because they have it, they have self worth that is not dependent on anyone's opinion. That is why they don't get dependent on those outside people, or need to avoid them because of lacking boundaries. That is why it is a goal.

I'm agree with you.

And at the end, it seems you and I have the same opinion about it. But you're so... strong (? I don't know how to explain that) with the point you want to make (which I'm still not sure what it is) that it looked like you were saying the opposite of what you're saying now.
But anyway, thank you for bringing this topic. While writing, I realised some things about us I will need to think about.

wow. interesting and resonant discussion.

dwelt I really get what you mean about people being initially attracted and then pushing-pushing too far. they are such a pain in the ass and then get so offended when you don't let them railroad you. your whole post was eloquent and resonated deeply but is too far back to quote.

and Floralie o get what you mean about never letting anyone in and how that is safe. I am also very happy alone. I have one part who wants SO but 30+ who don't.

on the subject of PM - I got a really weird one once too that had some weird bible quote and I think a person's email or phone number. it was totally unsolicited and made me feel funny and wrong. but I wasn't sure why. and I reported the $#%^ out of that PM. because I was worried they were fishing on the forum. and in a very general sense we are a vulnerable population. but also in that general sense we are responsible for own online safety.

I really like this forum and I think we can all work together to keep it safe. and vulnerable members should disable PM if there is a risk for this. I don't think I have MC issues or history. but sometimes things feel super dangerous and I'm not really sure why.

wrapping it all around to OP original concern. the mods are here. and I never hesitate to report judiciously so they are at least aware of what is sending out red flags for me. I couldn't mod here and I am glad we have those who volunteer to do it. I have flagged maybe 5 things in 3 years. and each time out of concern for the safety of the forum. and I have been satisfied with the mod response and action every time.

this online forum requires vigilance and safety just like anywhere else. I don't think your concerns or fears are unfounded. predators and trouble makers are pretty much everywhere. but they aren't everyone. and that's where our own judgement and discernment comes in.

Floralie wrote:

"I've chosen to live alone too. I can't deal with human relationships, because they feel like a job to me. Separating myself from world is not having healthy or high boundaries. It's the opposite of it, unhealthy coping mechanism to not having them. I need to be very aware of everything all the time, avoid and escape. I'm not easily victimized by anyone, because I won't give them a chance to do it."

I see a certain irony in this statement. A person might live alone because they don't want to be victimized by anyone, but in reality they actually are then being victimized by everyone...they have allowed everyone to put them in the state of isolation.

puppieskittens wrote:Floralie wrote:

"I've chosen to live alone too. I can't deal with human relationships, because they feel like a job to me. Separating myself from world is not having healthy or high boundaries. It's the opposite of it, unhealthy coping mechanism to not having them. I need to be very aware of everything all the time, avoid and escape. I'm not easily victimized by anyone, because I won't give them a chance to do it."

I see a certain irony in this statement. A person might live alone because they don't want to be victimized by anyone, but in reality they actually are then being victimized by everyone...they have allowed everyone to put them in the state of isolation.

How true. Sez we, who know this firsthand.

We're trying to take tiny steps to remedy this and increase our quality of life. Someone on another forum we used to frequent had a very good metaphor for how much or how little we (generic) let people into our lives. It's like a set of concentric circles. Exact definitions may vary from person to person as to who's in which circle, but here's a general idea.

Your A circle includes yourself/ves and any outside people that you trust completely (or as completely as you're able).
Your B circle includes people not in circle A who are important in your life but need to be kept at more of a distance, and to whom you disclose less, such as people who are good friends but not BFFs.
Your C circle includes people not in circles A or B who you deal with on a daily basis but are more like good acquaintances or casual friends, such as most co-workers, distant relatives, and perhaps service people that you've gotten to know a little better.
Your D circle includes people not in circles A, B, or C who you see on a regular basis but don't know at all, such as passengers on the commuter train.

Everyone outside of circle D is, well, everyone else.

We can choose who we let into each circle, and how far, and under what circumstances. We can also choose to send them to an outer circle, or even out of all circles, if appropriate.

Just our 94 cents.

MDs

puppieskittens wrote:Floralie wrote:

"I've chosen to live alone too. I can't deal with human relationships, because they feel like a job to me. Separating myself from world is not having healthy or high boundaries. It's the opposite of it, unhealthy coping mechanism to not having them. I need to be very aware of everything all the time, avoid and escape. I'm not easily victimized by anyone, because I won't give them a chance to do it."

I see a certain irony in this statement. A person might live alone because they don't want to be victimized by anyone, but in reality they actually are then being victimized by everyone...they have allowed everyone to put them in the state of isolation.

Well, that is exactly what I said in there. Separating oneself is not healthy boundaries, it's the opposite of it. I haven't felt victimized tho, and still don't. I don't feel lonely. It would be different thing to feel lonely and still separate. As I said also, to me not having people around is relief, and I have all my social needs met in the inner world.

And what I also said is that I know it's not the only truth, because one part of mine carries another truth about it with him. And that is why I am in therapy. I wouldn't be, if I would be thinking everything is fine as it is. I went to therapy, so that I could learn to feel lonely, and all the other feelings I have pushed away, because I can see how my life is slipping away from me faster and faster, while I'm in my own head living life of my parts'. Not living life of my own.

If anyone contacts me and tells I need to stop that and let them control me, I will still not be interested. I am not stupid, and I am not looking for savior. I still think people like that are truly dangerous and trying to find victims, they are not legitimate help I should trust by any means.

Neither should any of you.

I really like the circles MDs. I'm gonna put that in my toolbox.