Triggered about SOs

my opinion -- there's two kinds of SOs that post here. to me the good kind is real SO have been in the trenches and are just involved and trying to contribute. and their perspective in general can be helpful. Mr Brett (learning to love the ride) was particularly helpful at times for me.

then there's the other SO posts. ****eye roll**** and I HATE THEM!!!!! I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE THEM.

it is usually some dumbass who is NOT RESPECTING BOUNDARIES. and they are like oh I love them so much and I just want them back. and it does make me so mad. because that is us!!! a protector part is us too. and we have a very important job of keep us safe. so the poster did some asshole thing and won't respect boundaries and they are always asking how to get them to come back. or get things back the way they were

I think it shows a huge lack of respect for the system as a whole. and an individual's right to make their own choices.

so yeah---- I ######6 hate those posts. and I mostly steer clear of them.

I don't think it's dangerous though. I think it's mostly ignorance and being self centered.

but I cannot adequately state how much they DISGUST me. I think I have written about it before.

Ialso think the mods do a good job of keeping the forum safe. I report judiciously. I think we can all work together to keep the forum safe.

The dumb, abusive or just in way over there head SO's who post at least don't stick around. Once they don't get the kind of response they want from us they tend to buzz off and leave the forum. The ones that stay seem to be OK but of course I don't know everything about them so I could be wrong.

NyxX wrote:The dumb, abusive or just in way over there head SO's who post at least don't stick around. Once they don't get the kind of response they want from us they tend to buzz off and leave the forum.

Amen!!

Floralie, I appreciate your concern about people or teams with malevolent intentions lurking the forum. I have gotten heated up about this before. I recently got a kind of nonsensical yet seemingly friendly PM from a user who has posted a few times. As you said "nothing to report." Maybe I overreacted when I judged them negatively. But the PM was about a comment I had made on the topic of institutionalized MC/RA programming. They said "$#%^ down your computer." A typo? I don't know what they were up to, but I think it's no good.

Sometimes I want to talk about mind control since it preoccupies me and the system. But I don't say much for various reasons. I'm also concerned about what kind of attention it could attract or whether it is safe to people if I say the things I see. About SO's. what you're talking about is kind of like "player" manuals that teach men how to manipulate women.

-Sentinel

I'm sorry you got such a strange mail we would have been suspicious if someone sent us something so strange. And I wish you didn't have to worry about how people would respond to the things you have experienced and are still dealing with.

We saw this post last night, and though long and hard about exactly how to word the response.

So....

Floralie wrote:I've come to realize I find it very triggering to see SOs writing in here about how to get thru defenders. Changing tips and clues how to go pass someones boundaries, sounds to me straight out abusive. It's systems own job to negotiate about things like that, not SOs job to play mind games. To me there's not a lot difference between that kind of advice and things like pedophile guidebooks. This is how you make someone to feel trusty in the first place, and this is how you can get yourself over their boundaries. It's all same methods.

You have no right to play yourself thru anyone's boundaries. If you are truly a safe and not controlling person to be around, you can wait, until system has negotiated their opinion on you within themselves.

I do not think a significant other asking for tips and advice on how to deal with their DID partner is a bad thing. I do not think that in and of itself is a red flag or someone attempting to be abusive or controlling. For many non-DID significant others, this (their partner) is the first time they have knowingly come into contact with a person who has DID. They are confused, and they want to understand what is going on inside, and they truly need some guidance and advice on what to do. Especially with an alter who is aggressive, violent or mean. I can completely see why, after several years of being together, and being fairly happy, they would be confused and upset by a defender or protector trying to push them away. I don't see how asking for help in dealing with this type of alter is trying to "play through someone's boundaries." And often, the ONLY way to earn the trust of one of these defenders is to get to know them, and let them get to know you. And I see no problem with an SO asking for advice on how to handle this part of a system.

Floralie wrote:Also, You don't play with parts who don't have communication with other parts of the system. If you are truly safe and not controlling, you help them to create communication, and don't deal with them as separate beings just because it's easier like that. They are part of system, and systems make their own rules they all can live with.

Again, if the significant other is being respectful, and coming from a place of love, there is nothing wrong with communicating with a part who presents himself/herself. As long as the SO is not trying to pit one part against another and create more chaos. Sometimes that part wants/needs to communicate with the SO on his/her own, to build a trust relationship. Building that trust in the significant other, does (or at least in our situation did) foster the internal communication eventually. Our husband knew about each of us before we allowed K to see us.

Sometimes the partner must deal with an individual alter on their own terms. And in the beginning, for some, it is better to deal with that alter as if he/she is a separate being. How many times have we seen on here about a T who instantly jumps to "you have to integrate," when systems don't WANT to integrate, for the sole purpose of each part DOES feel like it's own individual and WANTS to be treated like their own person.

In our system, we understand that we are all part of a whole. We understand that had trauma not occur we would all still be here, in a sense, but in a single, non-fractured persona. But, we ARE here in a fractured state. And none of us wish to integrate, except for one. And we do, to an extent, need to be treated as our own individual person. We have conflicting likes and dislikes, and conflicting needs. So while we are all part of a system that works together for the good of all, we do each want to be treated as our own person. If our husband tried to treat us each exactly the same, and refused to see our differences, the relationship(s) with him would not work.

Not every person is bad. Not every partner is bad. Not everyone asking for advice is bad. I know that every DID system we have encountered or heard of has trust issues. It's a normal issue to have given what we have all gone through.

Floralie wrote:
How do others think about outsiders getting over systems defenders and boundaries? To us it's the thing number one to respect them, and deal with them straightly with the whole system. Changing experiences over "how did you managed to do this to your SO with DID" is abusive to me. I think all that talk should be forbidden.

Again, many of the posts I have seen are not about manipulating defenders or sliding past them undetected, it's more of advice on how to deal with them, how to earn the defender's trust. I do not see how "how did handle this with your SO? What did you do in this situation?" is not abusive at all. It is an effort to try to make things better.

Floralie wrote:Trigger warning mind control

It's not uncommon systems are systems, not singulars, because someone have used techniques to get thru their defense mechanisms at very early age. Some might have been just forced, but some have been played with before too. It's repulsive the same techniques will be used again by their SOs later on. It's also damaging. It's damaging also when it's made again the same way, when the subject don't realize it's technique used against them, but really feel trusty. Just like they did the first time. And when they actually spot it, it's so easy to get them quiet by blaming them to be the one who is crazy and being difficult.

Trigger warning ends.

I believe the main issue here is that you have deep seated trust issues due to your abuse. As do many of us. But while some of us have had some good experiences, and have some good people in our lives that we trust, some have not had that experience yet. Some may, in the future find that person they can trust, and some may not.

Are there predators who would take advantage? Yes, sadly it's true. But not everyone is a predator waiting to strike. And I do not believe that everyone asking for advice to help deal with a defender is a bad person who wants to hurt and play games.

Delilah

-- Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:42 am --

Floralie wrote:The thing is, you DON'T work yourself thru anyone's defenders. You respect their defenders and every single boundary. And they work their own trust issues within themselves, or with their Ts or whatever. They tell you when they are ready. Systems should not be subjects you do something to. That is the attitude what makes it comparable with other situations where you do something to someone over their boundaries.

I don't think it's an issue of "working through" a defender. I believe it is more of advice on how to deal with a defender, and tips of "what can I do to help this part trust me?"

Yes, a system, just a singleton, works through trust issues within themselves. However, it's more than that. It takes the other person SHOWING they are trustworthy and doing things to teach that they are trustworthy. Learning to trust someone is not a one sided event. It's a team effort in which the person with the trust issue, works with the significant other TOGETHER to learn to trust.

Delilah

myce wrote:About SO's. what you're talking about is kind of like "player" manuals that teach men how to manipulate women.

-Sentinel

Exactly. Like many others, before I signed in, I came sometimes to read dissociation related topics in here. I made my first writing to DDNOS section, but others welcomed me here, because it's basically the same disorder, or at least same enough, and this section is way more active.

I saw some writings I was concerned about, then before registering, and I saw other people getting triggered about them as well. People are allowed to live how they want to, and it's OK to be religious for example and devote your life to it, or to some other thing with clear rules, which seems to give feeling of protection for many people. On the other hand, if you can't talk about anything else than how great your God is, it's not conversations about dissociation anymore, it's converting others to your way of life. Way of life = fine, do what ever feels right, converting = considered as possible danger, don't get close. I think asking that kind of person to stop, is not an attack against their beliefs or life style, it's a simple request to stop all the converting stuff. It's great someone has found their happiness (if they are for real and not looking for next victim for themself or for their community). This is a place to talk about dissociation, and those kind of things on larger scale don't belong here. It's about the amount of worshiping to your truth and about where you spread the word about it. If it's in a thread devoted to that topic, it's fine, if it's all over, it gets me suspecting or at least it gets annoying. If it's something possibly dangerous for others, I see it as a threat.

Then more people came in here, advertising each other and how great help they are and have been. It was weird, and because I'm not aware of all what was talked about before.. it just sounded weird. Someone else commented about the weirdness of it too. I weren't here to see the whole thing from start to that, so I'm not sure what it was really about, but it made me for sure more concerned. Now they all have settled down, no active marketing anymore. It's not annoying anymore, but for the safety, I won't forget how it started. I will keep my distance and keep my eye on what's happening.

Talking about the ways of mind control is controversial in here too, just like details of any trauma. I'm not being judgemental if someone has a need to talk about what happened to them, it's understandable and a way to deal with it. It's understandable especially, if they don't have therapist to talk to. Just make sure you don't share tips how to do it to people who are willing to learn.

It's mind control over person with DID to be able to control their switches. Those kind of instructions have also been shared in here, at the same time with other concerns and I see them as legitimate too. And I don't mean, that the wish to be able to bring a host back because they are needed to take care of everyday life would be anyway wrong, I mean controlling them because of someone's own interests. I think that should be forbidden issue to share here too. That is how true MC works, they can call out the parts they want to, when they want to. That is the goal of MC. That is not a goal in getting better with DID.

Delilah has wrote a comment while I was writing this, so I am answering to it in here too.

I haven't claimed everyone asking for advice is doing it because they have bad intentions. It can be also, because they don't understand how DID works. It's understandable when someone has fell in love with one part, and suddenly has to deal with several unknown people in their loved ones body, they want the other ones to go away. And that is when we explain it can't be done, they are just one, and the one you fell in with wouldn't be the kind (s)he is without the others who are keeping their other traits away from that part.

As well we need to tell people who want to learn how to control a system, it's not a way to help, it's harmful. Being ignorant is different from being harmful on purpose. All the answers need to be the kind they can't be used wrong by people who are malicious.

It is complex thing to understand system is and will always be just one. It has nothing to do with integrating. But they are just one, and you don't act with one part and ever knowingly keep it as a secret from others. Some systems do decide to have separate lives, for example dating different people, and they decide they don't get involved with each others lives as long as they don't have trouble because of it. That is fine too. It is complicated how parts are, and are allowed to be separate (my 14 years old part act self destructive ways after T suggested him, he is a part of a system living in my body, and now it's clear rules T don't talk with my parts about their connection to my body, because they can't handle it, so I DO know they sometimes need to and are allowed to be separate as parts), but systems are still just one.

If system has separate defenders, it can mean other parts don't have ability to defend themselves like they should have. Their ability to defend has gone apart from them, because they have needed to submit to someone before, without any contradictions on it. If they would not be system but singular, that defender would be connected fluently with all the other parts all the time. Then there wouldn't be that one trouble maker defender, but there wouldn't be those overly trusty other parts either. They would all be in contact with being able to be defensive and mistrustful and they could all spot the possible dangers.

Having separate defender does not have to mean it's there because trauma caused that person to be overly mistrustful. It can be normal wariness, being separated from the ones who couldn't have any opinions against their abuser(s) without it being dangerous to them. So defenders can't be generalized as over reacting parts, who get on the way of relationships. They may very well be only ones who are right about something, while the rest of the system is not able to keep themselves safe. So if those very same systems would not be systems but singulars, all that normal wariness would have been present in that relationship from the beginning of it.

Trusting your defenders, is number one rule in how to stay safe. They can see things others don't pay attention to. Being triggered because something reminds you about some detail of your trauma, is when you over react. It's not the same thing as a defender.

My defenders like people and they are good willed. It doesn't make them overly trusty or easily controlled. They can spot when they are tried to be controlled. To me that is called being wise, not a problem.

-- Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:34 pm --

And for myce: if that was all there was on the message, I think it's worth to report. If there was a reason why you were talking about shutting down your computers, it can be understandable accident.

myce wrote:Floralie, I appreciate your concern about people or teams with malevolent intentions lurking the forum. I have gotten heated up about this before. I recently got a kind of nonsensical yet seemingly friendly PM from a user who has posted a few times. As you said "nothing to report." Maybe I overreacted when I judged them negatively. But the PM was about a comment I had made on the topic of institutionalized MC/RA programming. They said "$#%^ down your computer." A typo? I don't know what they were up to, but I think it's no good.

Sometimes I want to talk about mind control since it preoccupies me and the system. But I don't say much for various reasons. I'm also concerned about what kind of attention it could attract or whether it is safe to people if I say the things I see. About SO's. what you're talking about is kind of like "player" manuals that teach men how to manipulate women.

-Sentinel

I've been thinking about the people sending dubious Pm's most of the day now. And I reached the conclusion any PM that is even vaguely suspicious should be reported even if there isn't anything objectively you can point to as a reason for reporting it. Before when there was the drama with the mod and details of PM's being posted the mod said the only way they can see Pm's is if we report them. So if they get one report of a suspicious message from a user they might not do much but if they start getting lots it would probably be a different matter.

Floralie wrote:It's mind control over person with DID to be able to control their switches. Those kind of instructions have also been shared in here, at the same time with other concerns and I see them as legitimate too. And I don't mean, that the wish to be able to bring a host back because they are needed to take care of everyday life would be anyway wrong, I mean controlling them because of someone's own interests. I think that should be forbidden issue to share here too. That is how true MC works, they can call out the parts they want to, when they want to. That is the goal of MC. That is not a goal in getting better with DID.

I’d like to expand on this comment a bit, if I may.

When I talk about assisting with a switch, it is an invitation not a “conjuring”. Kind of like calling someone on the phone and letting them choose to answer it or not. The choice CAN’T be made on my end, only on theirs. They can turn me down, and some do more than others, but most are happy to see me and get time “out”. Generally I’m doing it in their interest, though I do share some common interests as well. Some of the more dominant ones come out on their own. Others are shy or hurt or feel unworthy of attention. I ask them to come out if they are willing, and facilitate activities they like (one likes to paint so I’ll set up paints and canvas then clean the brushes afterward) similar to asking a wallflower to dance.

I agree that doing it with selfish interest is wrong. 100% I highly discourage anyone taking over anyone else’s time. We are in agreement (SF, most of the insiders, and I) that they don’t repress others internally.

The only real exception I make is for system safety. If there is strong motivation to irreversibly self harm, I’ll do whatever I can. If it gets to this, that means our ISHs are blocked and it’s bad. Next starts with just me talking to who is out or an influencer, then trying to bring an ally to front, but can escalate to taking Sunflower to the hospital if necessary.

SOHank wrote:

Dude, you rock....

Teen Protectors

ps don't mind Aurora17 ....shes like that....