Body and integration

I know it's not necessary for me to think about integration at all. I will only have therapy for three years, and it can't happen in that time. I'm still thinking about it.

Is it necessary for parts to realize and accept that the outside body would also be how they look like, in order to integrate? Or is integration more psychological, and you can leave all body things outside of it?

Me and the people of my subsystem all get triggered by the idea they would actually look like me. Only one of them is a woman, but she doesn't look like me either. She looks nothing like, she is half latina, half white, and she doesn't look anything like me with her big brown eyes. Others are men or boys. If we need to agree about our gender, then we would rather be transgender male, because Anastasia and I are more ready to think we could be male than others would ever be for being female. But they are not willing to be transgender either, and that they would have to be, admit they are males trapped inside female body. But they are not. The body just doesn't have anything to do with them, they live in the inner world, not in here at all.

I rather not integrate, than ever hear again this body is how we look like. I can look like the body does, but I can't accept that to be told to my boys ever again.

They won't come out and participate in therapy, if that means they will be punished with the body thing if they do. I told that to our T too, so that she knows it feels like a punishment. It's not their fault they don't have outside bodies, but they need to use mine if they are gonna say something out loud, or come outside in any situation, and it should never be used against them. I rather keep them inside then, and maybe they can tell me what they think about something, and I will tell T what they said, then they don't have to come in here. And that is not just for them, but for me too.

No, we just won't agree they wouldn't look like they do inside. Inside bodies are as important if not more important than the one outside. We know the outside one is the one that keeps us alive, but other than that, there's nothing more special in it.

If other people can't see how my boys look like, it's their loss, but it doesn't mean they would look like what other people can see. I think that is the biggest obstacle for me to "show them" to my sister for example. She wouldn't see the one talking what ever we would do.

jones wants to reply to this at some point when he's able to, so i'm putting this here to let you know we read this and are waiting for a chance for jones to reply.

- alice

Hi dears, sounds like you are all in a tad of a pickle.

Possible trigger warning:

I've always considered that integration would be like dying. I haven't done much research into it, as we all (and our T) decided that it would not be good for us, so I can't say I know the ins and outs.
I think integration would be more acceptance, of a readiness or desire to become one with the body - meaning they would not be an individual personality anymore.
So no I do not think they would need to accept the body.

But I do think that it would be good for you all if you could all at least come to terms with the body. Not having a body that matches your body can be rough. We are all females here but that does not mean we don't get confused when looking in a mirror.

I do not know much about gender-fluid and other genders, but Evan (an alter who eventually became Emma, although we have suspicions they are still there, almost like a Jekyll and Hyde situation but with two lovely people instead of "good" and "bad") identified as gender-fluid, meaning one day they felt more female and the other more male.
Could this be something that might make you all feel more comfortable when it comes to identifying the body?

You integrate how much you feel like integrating, it isn't like one person just has to blend into another. You can integrate only what you're comfortable with. That's my opinion since my parts tend to blend a lot anyway and the boundaries between them are not always well defined. I don't see why you couldn't integrate your alters partially, while leaving out that information which is punishment to them.

Here, the body is female, and all parts inside are female, so as far as the body/gender confusion we cannot speak to that.

What I can tell you is that only K's inside apperance matches the outside. I look similar, but the differences do not bother me, as I have been around and aware for a very long time and have gotten used to the fact that the outisde does not match my inside appearance.

Britney accepts it, but does not like it. The body is 39 and Britney is around 17 years old. She has green eyes, the body has blue. She has red hair, the body's changes (as we like to dye it). She is taller and thinner than the body is. She will only look in the mirror to put on make up.

Lilly is 5.5, her eyes are piercing blue, though sometimes she changes them to violet, her hair is shorter and black, the body's hair is quite long. And of course on the inside Lilly is much smaller, a very small girl for her age. She avoids mirrors.

Little wolf is annoyed that she does not have paws or a tail outside, or wolf ears on the body. She used to see herself strictly as a shaggy gray wolf, small, a runt. Now she often sees herself as a girl with a tail and ears. She avoids mirrors.

Val also looks quite different.

So, they have all in a way accepted that the outside does not match, but they do not like it. Integration will likely never happen for us, as it's not something we want. We do have better internal communication now, so we are integrated enough to communicate in real time, and can connect closely enough that there is a level of "mind reading" going on at times (for lack of a better term).

And not all of us have spoken with the T. K talks to the T the most, I talk a little less than half. Britney has only showed herself to the T once, but has texted to her a few times. Val has spoken with the T once. Neither Lilly nor Wolf have ever spoken directly to the T. K and I make their feelings, opinions and thoughts known to the T as they wish.

Delilah

Thanks for your comments, and we will stay and wait for Jones's, and of course if anyone else wants to say something.

My parts from the subsystem haven't been body dysphoric (as far as I know), because they don't think they are sharing the body with me. I don't want them to need to think about that in the future either. We don't share a body, we share a head space. That is how it is with the subsystem.

About our main system, I don't know, because I don't have a clue who they are and what they think. I think I maybe do share a body with them, either it's easy or feels hard. But the subsystem is connected only with one of the parts of the main system, as far as I know, and that is why they are separate from the ones who share the body.

Trigger warning: suicidality and self harm. Lucas is the oldest teen of the subsystem, he's 16. He has committed suicide, but was bring back to life against his will (in the inner world.) Sami, 15-16, had a severe suicide attempt, but was stopped against his will (in the inner world too). Only reason they changed their minds and wanted to live again is because in the hospital they met each other. They were like mirrors to each other, and they connected strongly. They needed to decide either to help each other out and die together, or stay alive. If one would have hurt himself, other one would have done it too. But they didn't have a heart to kill each other. So they decided to live and move forward in life, together. They share very strong bond because of that, their lives are connected to each other. So both of them have been severely suicidal before. Fourteen is suicidal and self-harms himself (in the inner world) all the time. Ferro, the other fourteen year old, is very unpredictable. If he would get suicidal, he would mean it, not do something as a cry for help. They all have suicidal side in them, even when they all aren't suicidal at the moment.

Thinking about they all would be told they have 40 year old female body from now on, would make them all suicidal, no doubt. And because they WOULD be connected to the body then, it wouldn't be inner world stuff. Fourteen already showed what would happen. He already tried to harm the body when he was told he would have something to do with it, and since that, his self harm manners and bodily symptoms have been leaking to the real word. He tried to harm us, he doesn't want to eat and it's affecting to me, and his toileting problems are now on my body too.

I don't think we would survive from them starting to connect with the body. They would probably act together. Ferro and Sami are friends and they act together when something not-so-nice needs to be done, like protector stuff. Lucas is connected to Sami very strongly, and he would never change his life to our outside life. Fourteen is suicidal anyway. I don't see anything beneficial with them connecting with the outside body, I only see very big danger in it. End of trigger warning.

This is something I need to make my T to understand. She has agreed not to talk about body with them, but she needs to understand how dangerous it would be. It would break the whole balance.

We don't have any desire or interest towards integration / fusion, and the thought troubles most of us so we want to avoid it.

Body issues, we're all familiar with.

None of us look like the outside body. Not even previous host. Outwardly we're female, almost 49 years old. I'm now here the most and inside I'm 16. I can pretty easily forget that other people don't see me as I see myself. Just don't look down, don't look at mirrors, and I completely forget that the outside self isn't me. And since I'm here the most, I do what I can to make the body more comfortable. Hair cut, hair colour, piercings, clothes... I do what I can.

Older Violet had more issues with the body than me, she could get triggered by seeing herself unexpectedly in a mirror or whatever. Melissa is unhappy about the body being so old and all, but she doesn't dwell on it when she's out. Viola afaik hasn't let it bother her but she has les experience out front than me or Melissa.

Rebecca just doesn't like taking front at all, she finds corporeal existance tiring I guess? L hasn't fronted afaik, neither has Arin or Janet.

We have some guys in the system. I don't know what Charlie thinks of it, but he doesn't really worry too much about outside. Mike is really uncomfortable with it and does not like fronting. He gets a lot of dysphoria about being in a woman's body.

So I guess... none of us see the body as 'us', those of us who deal with the outside all know that the body is separate and looks different than we see ourselves. It bothers us to varying degrees. Older Violet the worst, followed by Mike. But it hasn't made any of us suicidal. It's depressing sometimes... both me and Melissa are sad we can't really hang out with people our own ages without being seen as 'wierd' or whatever.

Violet

So this is like kinda an issue for me, too... cuz like the body is male, like Zor... and I'm not... and I wanna get some stuff for like ME... things I can wear to feel pretty, girlish, and like comfortable and welcome as we move forward being more like unified and working together (Zor and I, others, too but this is about the body, he and I so...).

I know it would like kinda freak out his wife, so anti-girlie she has like nothing skirt or dress looking (much less having one of those)... and I would even do it when it's like ONLY ME at home or around, to be considerate... but once in a while, I kinda wanna... and this is hard.

I mean, I get it... but I'm here, too... and we're trying to figure out that kinda balance ourselves.

As for "integration" - I am OK with it, more or less... I just don't wanna be so far that _I_ don't like exist or have any real say or like life of my own anymore. I am ok with being like more cooperative and all of us having say and like experiencing things, but not to a point where it's like JUST one of us and the rest are like "along for the ride" at best. :/
It's something I am still trying to like figure out and make sense of, and like figure out what it means, what it looks like, and what it means like for my life, my kids, etc. Cuz like our lives inside are like for real legit rich and good and I don't wanna like ruin that. I don't wanna destroy the ability for my kids to have their lives and stuff...

{\Pixie/}

It's a lot like with you in our subsystem too, Pixie. The inner world is so rich and detailed, non of us wants it to go waste. The boys DO visit my body, but it's not that they consider it theirs when they do it. They just can't have their owns with them, so they are using mine. But I always wear clothes that feel comfortable for them. For some reason three or all of the boys like to use sleeveless t-shirts, so I always do at home. I also always use my pants a bit baggy, because it feels more male. They do care what I wear, it makes them feel more them and comfortable, and I know Lucas would want some cool sneakers in real life too, to feel more like him. But the actual body is still just mine. I don't know if it's them affecting me, or is it me too, who wants to do all that. There are no clear limits between me and them. There are clear limits between them and me tho. I feel I am them, but they feel they are not me at all.

We are very good making ourselves to believe everything is like it should be. We can also drag the inner world out, and a part can chat with another part, when one of them is using my body, and another one is just believed to be around in the same place, in my actual apartment. We can do it, even when my apartment looks nothing like the house most of them live in, or Lucas's studio apartment.

They would want to hang out without shirt also, but can't because topless woman is something we can not just decide not to see. Other than that, we can just believe the body looks just like it should for every one of them. Lucas even goes to shower every night, and sees himself as a guy without a doubt. I don't know why being topless doesn't bother there.

About integration, I've understood it doesn't mean anyone dying or anyone becoming "the real one" while others just hang in there. I've understood it's more like that as long as there is a clear host who has all the real life and others are been seen as their alters. I've understood integration is when there's nothing keeping parts apart anymore.

You know, if you would see a cake, there could be someone who would wanna eat it all, someone who would wanna taste it, someone who definitely doesn't want any useless calories in the body etc. And now you need to discuss about everything you do to make a choice that everyone can live with, and everyone needs to sometimes give in and let someone else do their thing, because it's their turn. But what ever you do, someone doesn't get what they wanted but exact opposite.

Singletons struggle too, when they see a cake. They know they shouldn't, but they would want to. They decide something and they are either happy for it, or sad about it afterwards. Systems are both happy and sad at the same time, because even if it was something they all agreed, someone or many didn't get what they wanted. As a singletons, all those opinions are still there, but you still agree about the outcome. It's because you truly made the decision as a one, because it's not just that you know what other want, by them telling that, you know all the other info too. Why they feel like that, to who it is more important than to others etc, all as a blink of an eye. You share your thoughts and feelings so flawlessly, you don't need to negotiate anymore. It's when you all become super close, you think about the same thing at the same time and all just clicks.

Everyone still feels they are "me". Not someone else. They just feel they are the same "me".

I hope we could be one, but I don't want to lose the inner world. I would want us to still be able to be as creative, and why wouldn't we be. But instead of me just sitting and living inside my head, we could have an outside life. And we could use that creativity to do art and write stories, those same stories that are now happening just inside, and no one ever hears them. They are good stories. We could totally be a writer.

But that is just me. I think boys feel differently about it. They don't want to loose their inside lives in order for me to have a life too. They don't have any need to change anything, because they have everything in there. I'm the one lacking things.

Floralie wrote:It's a lot like with you in our subsystem too, Pixie. The inner world is so rich and detailed, non of us wants it to go waste. The boys DO visit my body, but it's not that they consider it theirs when they do it. They just can't have their owns with them, so they are using mine. But I always wear clothes that feel comfortable for them. For some reason three or all of the boys like to use sleeveless t-shirts, so I always do at home. I also always use my pants a bit baggy, because it feels more male. They do care what I wear, it makes them feel more them and comfortable, and I know Lucas would want some cool sneakers in real life too, to feel more like him. But the actual body is still just mine. I don't know if it's them affecting me, or is it me too, who wants to do all that. There are no clear limits between me and them. There are clear limits between them and me tho. I feel I am them, but they feel they are not me at all.

We are very good making ourselves to believe everything is like it should be. We can also drag the inner world out, and a part can chat with another part, when one of them is using my body, and another one is just believed to be around in the same place, in my actual apartment. We can do it, even when my apartment looks nothing like the house most of them live in, or Lucas's studio apartment.

They would want to hang out without shirt also, but can't because topless woman is something we can not just decide not to see. Other than that, we can just believe the body looks just like it should for every one of them. Lucas even goes to shower every night, and sees himself as a guy without a doubt. I don't know why being topless doesn't bother there.

About integration, I've understood it doesn't mean anyone dying or anyone becoming "the real one" while others just hang in there. I've understood it's more like that as long as there is a clear host who has all the real life and others are been seen as their alters. I've understood integration is when there's nothing keeping parts apart anymore.

You know, if you would see a cake, there could be someone who would wanna eat it all, someone who would wanna taste it, someone who definitely doesn't want any useless calories in the body etc. And now you need to discuss about everything you do to make a choice that everyone can live with, and everyone needs to sometimes give in and let someone else do their thing, because it's their turn. But what ever you do, someone doesn't get what they wanted but exact opposite.

Singletons struggle too, when they see a cake. They know they shouldn't, but they would want to. They decide something and they are either happy for it, or sad about it afterwards. Systems are both happy and sad at the same time, because even if it was something they all agreed, someone or many didn't get what they wanted. As a singletons, all those opinions are still there, but you still agree about the outcome. It's because you truly made the decision as a one, because it's not just that you know what other want, by them telling that, you know all the other info too. Why they feel like that, to who it is more important than to others etc, all as a blink of an eye. You share your thoughts and feelings so flawlessly, you don't need to negotiate anymore. It's when you all become super close, you think about the same thing at the same time and all just clicks.

Everyone still feels they are "me". Not someone else. They just feel they are the same "me".

I hope we could be one, but I don't want to lose the inner world. I would want us to still be able to be as creative, and why wouldn't we be. But instead of me just sitting and living inside my head, we could have an outside life. And we could use that creativity to do art and write stories, those same stories that are now happening just inside, and no one ever hears them. They are good stories. We could totally be a writer.

But that is just me. I think boys feel differently about it. They don't want to loose their inside lives in order for me to have a life too. They don't have any need to change anything, because they have everything in there. I'm the one lacking things.

for us it IS our world though. I mean we're here more than "out there". WE have families, lives, family events, homes, work, kids, etc... this has always been like our lives and our world.

It's hard to think of it any other way for us... I know it's hard for Zor cuz he can't get here- or if he can none of us (including him) have figured out how yet... and from others' perspective it's "in his head"... but it's REAL for us. Every bit as real as WE are.

{\Pixie/}