SeveralCrows wrote:**General Trigger Warning: we are responding about things about Fourteen which he finds triggering, including struggling with orientation, abuse, who can or can't be abused or is an abuser, and love.**
Oh, we are honored someone used this much time and effort on us. This wasn't triggering, I don't know if some of it would've been if Fourteen would be more aware, but he's not that aware of outside now, I think. I can reach to him, and I feel his essence, the way he is, but he's not connected to outside. I'm happy he didn't disappear so deep inside he would be too far to reach. I kind of can feel him any time I think of him now, so he is even closer than usually that way. But I feel just his essence, not what he thinks or feels. Like he would be floating around, above near by, but connected with our mind. I don't know if he feels like floating too, or does it feel like that to me only.
SeveralCrows wrote:We've barely been able to look at the boards recently and we missed this entirely. We sincerely hope this post is in no way triggering and have used our best discernment in this regard. Our system identifies as queer in various ways and come from a very LGBT+ friendly point of view, but we realize that it may also be difficult to read that, given Fourteen's struggles and your system's struggles in general.
In our past being straight was too hard for us, and no one in the system was straight that I knew of. I remembered it not so long ago, that there was time when even Ferro was gay too. He was with Sami then. Sami has been with every teen in the system, but this is not about him or Ferro. There was period of time like that from when I was around 20 or something to 35 or so. The fact we can have straight people in the system, both males and females, is new, not recently new, but it wasn't always possible. It used to feel somehow threatening and also didn't feel as real. Gay love story made me feel something but straight one was just typical generic stuff I'm not into. Or who ever had passive influence on me then was not into.
We used to go out and spend time in gay clubs and had mostly male gay friends. But then it got confusing because they (some gay male friends we hanged out with) started to have feelings for us, without them understanding at all how and why, because they were not into women. And it got confusing to me, when men I found safe suddenly started feeling something sexual related to this body. If I would've had male body, there would've been no problems, we would've dated men and would've been happy. I still don't know, I can't remember or am not aware who it was then there. It certainly was someone who identified being gay male, and it showed thru and confused other people. Maybe it was someone who isn't around anymore, or has changed so much I can't recognize him, or can't remember anymore.
After that I tried to be lesbian, or bi or what ever, basically tried to be with women. I felt good and safe and liked snuggling, walking hand in hand was cute and safe, but can't have sex with women. So we do have history in LGBTI culture, the struggle Fourteen had or has is his, and it's because abuse messed him up, and how people responded to it when he remembered. And he has nothing against any people with any gender identity or any sexuality, only his own. He doesn't identify with anything really, and we decided he's so young he doesn't have to. But still he hears bad mouthing against gay people etc. being also about him. His abusers were male, so he has had gay sex. And that thing messed him up. And he could not stop thinking himself and trying to figure out what he is and why. What's real, and what comes from the younger ones who are eager to please men. Is that all trauma or is it real. But then he realizes there can not be trauma, because boys can't be abused. So it had to be him. And around and around goes same thoughts and feelings in his mind.
SeveralCrows wrote:It's okay to be gay. It's wonderful to be able to experience any of those feelings for another person at all. It's marvelous to be able to experience love, affection, desire, to have the capacity for those feelings. All of it is very human. Being able to experience all of that with another person who also wants those things is an extraordinary thing. At the same time, connecting like that isn't lofty and unattainable. It's achievable, it can be mundane and everyday. It isn't wrong to experience those things, or to want to experience those things. It's okay to be gay, bisexual, pansexual, demisexual, trans, any of it. All of it.
He understands that about every other person in this planet, but himself. But thanks for saying it aloud. I hope he can hear. I hope people who say right things could have same impact than words that hurt, but they don't. And it's complicated. This could also trigger him, if he would think you say it because you think he's gay. He doesn't wanna identify like that. Can't. To him it means he wants to be abused, although boys can't be, being gay feels to him like then anyone could come and ask for anything and he needs to be willing to, so he doesn't wanna be gay, or doesn't want people talking about him like he is.
SeveralCrows wrote:We'd also like to affirm that yes, boys can be abused. Anyone can be abused. Anyone.
I try to think this aloud inside for him to hear. And with the information it's not just me "not understanding how he feels and how world really is like", it's another system's own opinion.
SeveralCrows wrote:What would please him?
What would please him is a question he has over 20 answers for. It depends on who are you asking from. He's an alter of their own system, not just an alter in the system I belong into too. In other words he has DID and parts that are "his". They want opposite things. So they don't know.
SeveralCrows wrote:What happens if he doesn't please anyone?
In his mind: punishment. That's the loudest opinion in their system, way above anything else. Under that: abandonment and contempt.
There are parts who do what ever and don't give a ###$, but it doesn't help the overall situation at all. And the ones with better self esteem and also more age and more rebellious attitude are the ones who are more into girls actually. I don't know where they are now. The little's like girls as well. Even the tweens who are willing to please men, the best thing that could ever happen to them would be a girl liking them "that way". Or for the little ones too. Or to anyone of them. Because that's the thing they lost.
They can't be straight anymore, it's too late. That's how they feel, he feels. Struggle of not being accepted as something else comes after the fact they lost the chance to be straight, without their will. And they do feel there's no turning back. So they gave up something really big to keep girls safe. And it gets really overwhelming when they after that are accused of what they became because of it. And the fact it makes them feel responsible about being abused.
I have always thought him thru the fact he has been with Sami in the inner world like almost forever in outside time, and has real feelings for him. Their relationship has not been just repeating trauma. There was actual love, both ways. I've never really thought before that actually most of their system is straight. Their host personality was with Sami, and other parts went along with it. He had feelings for Lucas too, so he isn't purely straight, but he's way more straight I understood before as a whole person.
SeveralCrows wrote:Floralie wrote:some weirdo living in adult female body and his experiences don't make any sense thru that body.
He's not a weirdo for that. It's just where he happens to be.
He can understand it intellectually. At home, when no one can see or hear, he doesn't think about the body at all if he isn't already being triggered because of outside world reminded him about it wrong way. But when there's another person there, he is way too aware what they can not see or hear. I hope he can grow over that problem one day, but body dysphoria is awful. I don't know how it will be for him now that he's younger. He is way more trusty now, so getting younger can help him with that too, with talking to people in general. I hope it does, teens feel more awkward about their bodies anyway.
SeveralCrows wrote:Floralie wrote:I couldn't do it either, to grow up sexually and become someone who can call themselves a woman. No, it's way too sexually grown up word to describe me. He can not grow to be man either, that is straight our threatening word to him.
We relate with this a lot.
In English you can use the word female, I can identify being female, and Fourteen was OK with identifying as male or boy. But in our language there is no word like female/male. It's just man and woman. And I can not be girl anymore either. But now I have managed to get a part who does identify with being woman, and is all I am not that way. So our system is capable of doing that now, although I as a part, am not. Neither is Fourteen.
SeveralCrows wrote:It's understandable that he needed a break from being 14. Was your T meaning that it means something about trauma from that time, or more generally? It sounds like you are already hearing what is significant about the age: that it is less complicated and less need for that kind of support which is still lacking.
She asked me how was my life when I was 11 and 12. And we talked about my sister a lot, and my relationship with her. Because Fourteen is with his sister now that he's younger. There were some similarities in there, but I forgot them. I wasn't happy then, but I don't remember any particular trauma, it was over all life that traumatized me, it was a long term thing. Age 12 is when all 3 sexually abused boys in the system have been abused, but I don't remember that happening to me. It can be symbol for something too. I had very early puberty and was very ashamed of my body because it was so different from anyone else's. That's what makes that time different to me from other times negatively, but I think it started before.
I do have a lot of little memories that pop up to my mind when I start thinking about something, but I can't remember when they happened. So mostly it's guessing. There is something weird about that time I can't explain, or know what is it about. I loved to read books, I read plenty of them, about horses and stories with girls and horses or girls with dogs. Years ago I bought many of those books and now I have them at home. But I can't read them. I feel I'm getting overwhelmed. Not straight out negatively, but even thinking about reading them makes me a bit hyper and I wanna walk around the apartment to sooth myself down.
SeveralCrows wrote:We don't have specific resources to suggest, but have you looked for contemporary puberty books by LGBT+ authors? I've heard about there being a wave of children's books lately and can't imagine there not being teen-oriented books too. it could be helpful also to read coming-of-age novels with teens who are just starting to realize their sexuality. That sort of thing has really helped normalize our own experience. Our (Crows') culture hypersexualizes it, but we just have regular amounts and types of feelings, and it's allowed.
That's actually a good idea. I think he could do it now that he's younger and can read them like what's coming and prepare himself. I don't know if he could do it as 14 year old, it depends how they are like.
SeveralCrows wrote:On the idea of inherently being an abuser, do you think it would help to look at educational materials around consent? Those would possibly show examples of men being good partners. That it's possible and it's possible for him.
For them there are normal boys, who can be with girls. When he sees a straight couple, he doesn't think that girl is abused by that boy. They themselves are not normal boys anymore, because they had sex with adult man or men. That's when they became different. That's when it was too late to turn back and be normal boy anymore. And that's the reason they tried to seek help for their trauma. They didn't find support, they went to read a support forum, and it was all women, mostly abused by men. They talked very clearly about how men trigger them now. So he didn't write messages there. He understood he wasn't wanted. Even if they would've been nice to him, he would've known how they REALLY think about him deep down.
When you have been abused and live with the symptoms of guilt and feeling your body alien to you and gross and dirty, and you go to people who are your peers and they agree with you being guilty and gross and dirty.. Well, after that I don't know what could change his mind about it. It was SO awful, because he expected support and understanding.. but those people are still his peers. The ones who know what they're talking about, because they've lived thru it. Not like some social workers who may have had normally happy life and who don't understand it really, not deep down.
It think that abandonment was too awful for him to go thru ever again. So he doesn't expect good things or believe in them, because he can't afford new disappointment like that. As long as we are in places where there's traumatized people, it's very likely he hears the same things over and over again. Every time they get more true to him. But it hurts less, than opening your mind and heart and expecting good things and they never will come. That's way worse. So he keep his mind closed with this. He can't survive from trying to believe in good things again.
I think this is the mother of all the problems. He can't afford to see himself as someone who has trauma, although he would really much want to be able to. And when he can't agree he's traumatized, then how could his beliefs be trauma based? If he could admit the trauma and that it's not his fault, he could work willingly with his core beliefs about himself, which would make getting better possible. But he can't afford being disappointed, and doesn't admit it's trauma, but the reality. It's hard to be cured from the reality. There are different parts, some more in realities than others, but his beliefs are one big mess with so much stuff in it, it's very hard to get thru it to him.
SeveralCrows wrote:We don't have any specific thoughts about him having de-aged because we have no experience there. We have age-sliders, but this sounds different.
Yeah, I don't know what this is called, or does it even have a name in DID community, but I don't feel it's age sliding either.
SeveralCrows wrote:Everyone who wants it deserves good, connective, consensual, mutual love in the way that feels best for those involved. That includes him, that includes you if you want that, and that includes anyone reading these words. He is worthy and he is good enough. You are worthy and you are good enough.
We wish you all the best.
-some of the Crows
Thank you, again thank you for the effort. You deserve all the good things as well.