New... Confused... *Trigger warning- suicide discussion*

ItsJustUs wrote:

NyxX wrote:You replied on the wrong thread or magic

dissociative-identity/topic208302.html

The Pixie

Yeah I just saw that. Crap.
Oops.

LOL

B

-- Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:52 am --

If kitten was that serious about a suicide attempt, I'd hijack the body and not let her out till *I* talked to the therapist. I'm pretty sure Delilah would help me lock kitten in if I needed assistance. I'm sorry you feel betrayed, but Jackie did you a favor.

If you kill yourself, you kill her. She clearly doesn't want you to kill her. And she wants you to to not kill yourself.

Sorry, I'm on Jackie's side on this one.

Britney

I think that helps. Sometimes it's just hard to know what jackie is thinking even if I dont experience the time-lapses that others do.

I don't know if she ever really considered the system as her own body, though... It's like she sees it as my body alone... But I think that also has to change because I can't just make her feel unwelcome... It's been resulting in forced switches and dizzy spells that I can't take until I just give in. :/

Idk, I feel like I'm trapped with somebody who is pestering me for control a d it sucks...


As far as sides go... I guess you're right about her looking out for both of us. Idk if that was her intent because she has always looked out for me a d not herself but I think with me being pissed about the situation she's changing her perception of how she's going to live... Idk.

Thankyou for the insight! This is new for both of us so it's scary and confusing...

Hey I get it. At one time I really REALLY hated Kitten. I resented that it was "her" body. I resented that she had friends and I didn't. I worried that our husband loved her more, and if it had been just ME, that he wouldn't want me, and he was just putting up with me because I'm part of her.

I tried to kill Kitten once, everyone would have thought it was a suicide, because at that time I didn't realize that I'd kill both of us. It was like... I dunno, I thought she'd die but I'd wake up, maybe? Stupid, I know, but I've learned.

When I realized I couldn't kill her off, I would take every chance I could to "hijack." When the body was a teenager, and then in college, I'd take over... but I wouldn't black Kitten out completely. She could watch, but not really understand why "she" was doing things so out of character for her. Later, she'd blame it on drinking too much and losing control, even though I only drank a little to give her that perception. So like you, she didn't always lose time. She just felt like she wasn't in control.

But I matured after we met our husband. He helped me see that it's my life too. And it really helped that he SAW me. I mean, before I introduced myself to him. He looked at me one day and said, "I see you." I was like "of course you see me, I'm right in front of you." He said, "Oh no, no, no. I see YOU. I don't know who you are, but you're not my kitten." It blew me away that he saw me, that he REALLY saw me. I hid for a month or two after that before coming out again. When I did, I came out as me, didn't even try to pretend to be her. It's what helped me get past hating her. Don't get me wrong. It still took me a long time to not hate her, and even longer to be... friendly. But.. ya know. We're still working on it. She's not scared of me anymore and I don't hate her. We can co-conscious now, but have an agreement about privacy (when I'm with our husband it's none of her damn business, if ya know what I mean).

Jackie should come post here. I think I'd like her.

B

ItsJustUs wrote:Hey I get it. At one time I really REALLY hated Kitten. I resented that it was "her" body. I resented that she had friends and I didn't. I worried that our husband loved her more, and if it had been just ME, that he wouldn't want me, and he was just putting up with me because I'm part of her.

I tried to kill Kitten once, everyone would have thought it was a suicide, because at that time I didn't realize that I'd kill both of us. It was like... I dunno, I thought she'd die but I'd wake up, maybe? Stupid, I know, but I've learned.

When I realized I couldn't kill her off, I would take every chance I could to "hijack." When the body was a teenager, and then in college, I'd take over... but I wouldn't black Kitten out completely. She could watch, but not really understand why "she" was doing things so out of character for her. Later, she'd blame it on drinking too much and losing control, even though I only drank a little to give her that perception. So like you, she didn't always lose time. She just felt like she wasn't in control.

But I matured after we met our husband. He helped me see that it's my life too. And it really helped that he SAW me. I mean, before I introduced myself to him. He looked at me one day and said, "I see you." I was like "of course you see me, I'm right in front of you." He said, "Oh no, no, no. I see YOU. I don't know who you are, but you're not my kitten." It blew me away that he saw me, that he REALLY saw me. I hid for a month or two after that before coming out again. When I did, I came out as me, didn't even try to pretend to be her. It's what helped me get past hating her. Don't get me wrong. It still took me a long time to not hate her, and even longer to be... friendly. But.. ya know. We're still working on it. She's not scared of me anymore and I don't hate her. We can co-conscious now, but have an agreement about privacy (when I'm with our husband it's none of her damn business, if ya know what I mean).

Jackie should come post here. I think I'd like her.

B

I don't really know how to let her... Or if she just does it on her own.. ? Idk how that works.

I think she needs more time to feel comfortable with herself...? Or maybe the system just needs more time to adjust?

Literally I have no idea how to force a switch or anything, I just know what it feels like to have to fight to remind me and it's hell. Ever try to suppress another person from fronting? How does it feel for you?

Chaejuru wrote:

I don't really know how to let her... Or if she just does it on her own.. ? Idk how that works.

I think she needs more time to feel comfortable with herself...? Or maybe the system just needs more time to adjust?

Literally I have no idea how to force a switch or anything, I just know what it feels like to have to fight to remind me and it's hell. Ever try to suppress another person from fronting? How does it feel for you?[/quote]

So at first Kitten couldn't control switching.. she couldn't stop a switch or start one. She didn't know we where here, we just moved front when we felt like it. Delilah could force a switch it if I got too out of hand, she could pull me back in and either take over or push kitten out.

So in your case, either something triggers Jackie to come out, or Jackie just decides she wants out. That's how it was with me.

And oh yeah, later, once Kitten knew we were here, she began to feel switches or blackouts coming on. And she started to fight them. And if I was out, she'd tried to fight to come back and I'd try to keep her in.

For me, it feels like a pressure in my head. Like a sinus headache, almost. Like she was behind a door and was pushing against it. But the door wasn't something totally solid like wood... it was... like a thick piece of canvas stretched taught on a frame. And I was pressing myself against it to keep it from ripping, so I could feel the pressure pushing out from her. And then when she'd get through, it would be like that canvas had suddenly ripped, and as she pushed out, an invisible force sucked me back in. And it'd either go dark, or I could watch, like I was trapped in a glass box. I could see, and I could hear but the sounds were muffled.

Does that make sense?

But the more we worked on being cooperative, the better things got. Now I can "sleep" if I want to, which results in loosing time. Or I can watch and be co-conscious completely. Or I can hang out in my "room" with the door open so I can sort of hear what's going on, but I'm not really paying attention.. the way a parent can be in one room, and their kids in another, and the parent isn't REALLY paying attention, but important things catch their attention (like fighting, or strange sounds, or something being TOO quiet) and then the parent knows they need to go investigate? Kind of like that.

Now, if I want out, Kitten says it feels like I'm tapping her on the shoulder. We picture it like a hallway... Say you have a short hallway in a house that goes from the front door into the living room. When we switch, it's like she's just outside the door, and when she knows I want out, she steps to the side and slides in, as I step to the other side and slide out, and we brush against each other in the hallway/doorway. We're both fully conscious during the switch. We may miss a word or two in a sentence if someone is talking to us.

Delilah used to be a gatekeeper. She would determine if Kitten needed to be pulled back and someone else needed to front. Or if I got out she'd watch me, and pull me back in if she felt like I was being too out of control. Kind of like that "helicopter parent," that is always hoovering over their kids.

I know it all sounds weird, and I'm not sure if that's what it's like for the others inside here.. but that's what it was and is like for me.

I know that when Kitten had to force me back in and fight to get out, that she'd have a massive migraine when she "came back." Now, we don't get headaches. Well, until recently. A new person has shown up, and we're having headaches again, but Kitten thinks those will stop once the new balance is found and Val interacts more.

I hope this is helpful.

Also, before we could co-conscious, Kitten would leave notes for us in her journal, and we'd write back if we felt like it. And it was how she and I started to learn to put our differences aside and get a long. Once we had both decided on that, that's when we really started trying to learn how to co-conscious as well as communicate on the inside. And the journal thing is how we're communicating with Val. One of us will leave her a note, and leave the journal on the bed. And a day or two later, Val would leave a response. She mostly writes in the middle of the night when everyone else is asleep. We've also started keeping the journal with us, because on rare occasions she's come out during the day, but she blacks us out.

Also, Kitten found out Val likes Comic books, especially Deadpool, so we now keep that comic with us all the time too. Sometimes kitten will read it, hoping Val is paying attention, and if not, we have it with us in case Val decides to come out. Our husband has also told Val that when Deadpool 2 comes out, they'll watch it together. I think he's hoping she'll let him get to know her better.

I know this was a lot, and I hope some of it helps.

B

ItsJustUs wrote:

Chaejuru wrote:

I don't really know how to let her... Or if she just does it on her own.. ? Idk how that works.

I think she needs more time to feel comfortable with herself...? Or maybe the system just needs more time to adjust?

Literally I have no idea how to force a switch or anything, I just know what it feels like to have to fight to remind me and it's hell. Ever try to suppress another person from fronting? How does it feel for you?

So at first Kitten couldn't control switching.. she couldn't stop a switch or start one. She didn't know we where here, we just moved front when we felt like it. Delilah could force a switch it if I got too out of hand, she could pull me back in and either take over or push kitten out.

So in your case, either something triggers Jackie to come out, or Jackie just decides she wants out. That's how it was with me.

And oh yeah, later, once Kitten knew we were here, she began to feel switches or blackouts coming on. And she started to fight them. And if I was out, she'd tried to fight to come back and I'd try to keep her in.

For me, it feels like a pressure in my head. Like a sinus headache, almost. Like she was behind a door and was pushing against it. But the door wasn't something totally solid like wood... it was... like a thick piece of canvas stretched taught on a frame. And I was pressing myself against it to keep it from ripping, so I could feel the pressure pushing out from her. And then when she'd get through, it would be like that canvas had suddenly ripped, and as she pushed out, an invisible force sucked me back in. And it'd either go dark, or I could watch, like I was trapped in a glass box. I could see, and I could hear but the sounds were muffled.

Does that make sense?

But the more we worked on being cooperative, the better things got. Now I can "sleep" if I want to, which results in loosing time. Or I can watch and be co-conscious completely. Or I can hang out in my "room" with the door open so I can sort of hear what's going on, but I'm not really paying attention.. the way a parent can be in one room, and their kids in another, and the parent isn't REALLY paying attention, but important things catch their attention (like fighting, or strange sounds, or something being TOO quiet) and then the parent knows they need to go investigate? Kind of like that.

Now, if I want out, Kitten says it feels like I'm tapping her on the shoulder. We picture it like a hallway... Say you have a short hallway in a house that goes from the front door into the living room. When we switch, it's like she's just outside the door, and when she knows I want out, she steps to the side and slides in, as I step to the other side and slide out, and we brush against each other in the hallway/doorway. We're both fully conscious during the switch. We may miss a word or two in a sentence if someone is talking to us.

Delilah used to be a gatekeeper. She would determine if Kitten needed to be pulled back and someone else needed to front. Or if I got out she'd watch me, and pull me back in if she felt like I was being too out of control. Kind of like that "helicopter parent," that is always hoovering over their kids.

I know it all sounds weird, and I'm not sure if that's what it's like for the others inside here.. but that's what it was and is like for me.

I know that when Kitten had to force me back in and fight to get out, that she'd have a massive migraine when she "came back." Now, we don't get headaches. Well, until recently. A new person has shown up, and we're having headaches again, but Kitten thinks those will stop once the new balance is found and Val interacts more.

I hope this is helpful.

Also, before we could co-conscious, Kitten would leave notes for us in her journal, and we'd write back if we felt like it. And it was how she and I started to learn to put our differences aside and get a long. Once we had both decided on that, that's when we really started trying to learn how to co-conscious as well as communicate on the inside. And the journal thing is how we're communicating with Val. One of us will leave her a note, and leave the journal on the bed. And a day or two later, Val would leave a response. She mostly writes in the middle of the night when everyone else is asleep. We've also started keeping the journal with us, because on rare occasions she's come out during the day, but she blacks us out.

Also, Kitten found out Val likes Comic books, especially Deadpool, so we now keep that comic with us all the time too. Sometimes kitten will read it, hoping Val is paying attention, and if not, we have it with us in case Val decides to come out. Our husband has also told Val that when Deadpool 2 comes out, they'll watch it together. I think he's hoping she'll let him get to know her better.

I know this was a lot, and I hope some of it helps.

B[/quote]

I think a lot of it helps but the metaphor is kind of difficult for me to piece together. For me when I feel like Jackie may take over I get a sort of mental swelling where it's difficult to keep track of reality... Something I only really feel when I'm getting buzzed.

For me, right now, I'm completely uncertain how to even categorize or classify Jackie because there has been no diagnosis of anything. Like, who is she, why TF is she here? Is it DID or something else...? Idk, I'm NOT trying to self diagnose but im so distressed just trying to figure out how to remain fronted at times that it's impossible to ignore...

The friend doesn't think Jackie is real and thinks she is a way for me to obsolve myself of responsibility... Which is somewhat triggering. Idk

I need to figure out what is going on with me or us or I'm going to go ######6 crazy. <.>

When someone inside wants out and my wife fights it, headaches are frequent and she can get physically and mentally tired. We had a period where she was afraid to let go and fought a LOT. Sometimes I could tell how bad they wanted out and would tell her that she should just let them, otherwise they will just tire you out and come out anyway, but will leave you with a headache to boot.

Now that there is better cooperation, this can be negotiated better. (EX Not now, but will give you time later. Or being co-conscious.)

For a couple that were considered to dangerous to be fully out other than at T’s office, we would let them “write through”. Wife would just sit with pen and paper and relax a little without letting them fully front and let them write. Sometimes it was even a dialoge. They felt heard and were satisfied enough to let her stay in front.

ItsJustUs wrote:

NyxX wrote:You replied on the wrong thread or magic

dissociative-identity/topic208302.html

The Pixie

Yeah I just saw that. Crap.
Oops.

LOL

B

-- Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:52 am --

If kitten was that serious about a suicide attempt, I'd hijack the body and not let her out till *I* talked to the therapist. I'm pretty sure Delilah would help me lock kitten in if I needed assistance. I'm sorry you feel betrayed, but Jackie did you a favor.

If you kill yourself, you kill her. She clearly doesn't want you to kill her. And she wants you to to not kill yourself.

Sorry, I'm on Jackie's side on this one.

Britney

I have to thank you for your candor on this reply. I looked at myself and what Jackie must be going through having me as a perminant attachment to her, with the desire to self harm and die.

I took a long hard look at the way I've been treating her and talking about her to my therapist/close friends and I think I may have betrayed her for trying to do what she thought was right.

I tried to communicate with her on pen/paper on the bus one night (because I didn't want to have one of those quick switch moments on the bus that compromised stealth) and it was somewhat of a difficult conversation but since then she has let me be... Even though I've turned around and have been inviting her to front more. Idk.

Anyways, thank you. I have been doing better due to this feedback. I just hope me and Jackie are still good and she's not ditching me again. :/ Would rather learn to work with her than to just have her there and only show up every other month.

-- Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:07 am --

SOHank wrote:When someone inside wants out and my wife fights it, headaches are frequent and she can get physically and mentally tired. We had a period where she was afraid to let go and fought a LOT. Sometimes I could tell how bad they wanted out and would tell her that she should just let them, otherwise they will just tire you out and come out anyway, but will leave you with a headache to boot.

Now that there is better cooperation, this can be negotiated better. (EX Not now, but will give you time later. Or being co-conscious.)

For a couple that were considered to dangerous to be fully out other than at T’s office, we would let them “write through”. Wife would just sit with pen and paper and relax a little without letting them fully front and let them write. Sometimes it was even a dialoge. They felt heard and were satisfied enough to let her stay in front.

Thank you for the writing idea! I didn't realize it would be so effective. The fighting has stopped and now we're getting along.

Or, so I think. I'm not quite sure how to allow her to switch now that we're fine but the fighting is done.

Maybe they don't feel a need to front now. Z doesn't like fronting but will do so sometimes to protect us. So maybe now your not trying to harm yourself or the body she has gone inside to rest or focus on things she likes.