Wishes

Hey,

We have a tough situation with one of our littles.
I think I've posted about her before, she's called Robin.

Anyway, so somehow she got the idea/hope/wish that our T will give us something for our Birthday. A card, maybe, or something like that. I don't understand where she got that idea, and I honestly think that it is super unrealistic.

But how do I talk to her about this???
She's about 7 years old.
Because I called it unrealistic, she now wants to take matters into her own hands and email T saying that it is unfair that she can't expect that.

Do you guys ever have unrealistic expectations, or have a little who has unrealistic expectations? How do you deal with it?

Yes Pixie has been extremely demanding in the past. The more things are done for her the more cared for she feels. So she will refuse to walk to the kitchen and get herself a drink or take her shoes off and insist Ozalces has to do it for her. They are always tasks she can do she just wants 'proof' that he cares.

She hasn't been as bad lately now that she got older but things have been very quiet inside lately as well.

So does it have to be an unrealistic expectation? If the desire for a card is being driven by a similar feeling and what she really wants is proof she matters and is important to the T maybe talking to them about it is the way to go. How can you expect a part of you that is 7 to talk openly talk to a T when they feel they aren't important enough for a card?

Thanks for sharing. Yes, sometimes Robin acts like that, too. It's a good point you make about her wanting to be important and to mean something to people.

But, at the same time, I don't think she can expect to get something without asking for it - the T probably has NO clue that we would even like this. But I don't feel comfortable with having her ask for it and somehow I have a gut feeling that Robin is scared that it would "ruin it". Like, as if being too greedy would mean that it all gets taken away even IF we would really be about to get something.

Hello,

I think that's very understandable; your T is your attachmentfigure, for (soms) parts maybe even the only one. And when people care, they wish each other a happy birthday with effort. I totally get how a card is 'proof of that' for a little. Maybe explain that your T is not your parent/friend but that it's, on the other hand, perfectly fine to get attached? And that the 'proof' is in the work your T does, which is a different kind of caring than in your personal life.

We have so many strong responses to this that it's hard to think straight. So I'm sorry if this is disjointed. I've already gotten a stomachache, and a lump in my throat, and spilled my coffee by putting it down too quickly.

This is the heart of what I work on with my T. It has been SO hard to trust that he cares and maintains a connection to me, when most of us can't feel it in a continuous way.

When one is raised to believe that just existing and having needs is greedy and demanding, it's impossible to know what's reasonable. I've gradually been able to feel this out with my T--it's really hard, but there is no other way except through it.

That whole feeling about: if you let someone know that you want something, then they will take it away because you want it--that has been the HARDEST thing to break through. I think we had to grab random inadvertent crumbs of caring as kids--letting someone know that I needed/wanted love or affection felt like admitting weakness that was then taken advantage of, so that had to be avoided at all costs. The unconscious motto was "don't let them know something makes you feel good or it will be taken away because they'll decide it isn't good for you."

My T has said that if I let him know that something he does or says creates a good feeling in me, then he would want to do it more and more, not less. Something about that doesn't compute for part of me and feels WRONG--like that's not how the world should work. Or it's just a setup and I'll find out at some point that it was all fake.

Wanting a card to acknowledge that one is important and cared about isn't unrealistic or unreasonable, or greedy. But expecting the T to know that she wants that without asking is unrealistic.

Instead of coming out and asking for the card, can you ask about asking for it? I've only been able to ask for things if I was prepared to not get them and to be ready to hear an explanation from the T about why not, and to trust that it would be for a caring reason.

We always write about it first and debate the pros and cons in the private journal, and we have one little, Jenia, who is very clear-headed about this stuff for some reason. So when she got the idea in March to ask the T to take an object with him on his trip to a conference, someone else wrote: "What if he says no?" and she wrote, "Then we would talk about it with him and listen to the reason." We thought it was unrealistic and that he would probably say no, so maybe that made it easier to ask. But he enthusiastically agreed and said that wasn't the first time he had done that for someone.

Ok, we have things to do this morning, but Jenia wants to say something to Robin (I hope that's ok):
Hi Robin,
Your T can't be like a mommy and know or guess things that you want like a good mommy should have when you were little, but she probably cares about you and would want to know if getting a birthday card from her would be important to you. And she especially would want to know that NOT getting one would be really disappointing to you. So not being able to guess that DOESN'T mean that she doesn't care about you. And I don't think it's greedy to tell her that you would want one. If she thinks it isn't a good idea for some reason, then I'm sure she'll explain why. So far, I haven't asked for anything that the T said no to, but we usually have to talk about it a little so he understands why I want it. Ts like to do that.
Jenia

we are always pretty distant with Ts and make sure not to get too close so we won't hurt a boundary. and I think our expectation are broke, so mayb don't take our advice...

our bigs would work on making sure the Little knows that the T is not a parent and doesn't do parent stuff for us. or friend stuff. gifts are friend or parent jobs. Ts listen and help with ideas and words.
cause it's really an old wish that a parent would have done something and we don't ever want the littles confused that a T could be like a parent to them when they can't. So we would make sure to get gifts for the little and make it really happy and nice and draw a hard line, explaining what Ts are for.

Hi TheGangsAllHere and Annett,

It's interesting to get two sort of conflicting responses to what I wrote. (Maybe they are more like complementary rather than conflicting, on second thought).

Okay, so first of all, I must say that I felt relieved when I read what you wrote, Annett. It's nice to be reminded of the clarity of the relationship: a T is not a substitute parent or a FRIEND. T asked me some friend-like things last time and it feels... weird and dangerous. (Like, she asked me to take pictures of my B-day party so I could show them to her).

It also feels more doable if we can be the "parent" - then we don't have to worry to the same extent about whether it's going to be okay. I was feeling conflicted about gifts, because about a month ago we got a "birthday gift" for the littles. It was a book that was on sale, so that's why we got it then. We gave it to them because (1) it seemed cruel not to, and (2) they said "they wouldn't even want another present". So, now I'm debating whether it would be good to show the boundary of: you said that and you can only get one present. Or, to show some flexibility and to get a small gift. I'm leaning towards the second option after reading what you wrote; maybe if we can take care of the needs enough, then she won't be hoping to get stuff from other people.

But....... that being said, I don't think Robin agrees with me (at all). She said something about how she doesn't even want stupid stuff, she just wants someone to care. She doesn't want another mummy, she wants something to keep at home to remind her of the therapeutic relationship. That there is someone who listens, and who comes back after Holidays.
So, that makes me feel like it is more about basic connection rather than getting a present.

I really relate to what you wrote, Gang. Especially the part about how you had to grab "random inadvertent crumbs of caring". Yup. All signs of liking/desiring any of that had to be HIDDEN VERY WELL.

Maybe I still think that having a T care is actually not realistic or desirable. They just have to do their job... and maybe it is too much to ask if I also want them to be as attuned as I would need, in order to feel cared about and/or seen, and/or like I could trust them to work with my younger parts. I admire that you are able to do that, and I think it can lead to a lot of progress - but for me, I think I would (just) get hurt.

Thank you, Jenia, for writing to Robin. I will let her know.

Okay, so there's one more thing that complicates the situation: some years ago I actually asked T for a card for my B-day. And she said that was fine.
But then she forgot... That session she forgot that it was my B-day. It was pretty much the worst case scenario. She remembered at the last minute, though. And quickly went to another room and wrote "Happy Birthday!" on a card - upside down -, but still... It wasn't that she didn't care. But it still... didn't help.
So now I just... I don't want to ask again!!! I don't want to want her to provide me with something, if I can avoid it.

T lent us a special cup when she went away, so that Robin would believe that she would come back. Then we found a package of temporary tattoos at home, from years ago, that were exactly about the same image that was on the cup. So, Robin desperately wanted to bring them to T. We did. Robin wanted me to ask T if we could both get one of those tattoos, but I... I just couldn't bring myself to ask that. Nope. No way. Way too close and vulnerable. So, we just showed them and T seemed a bit confused about why, I think she thought it was a present at first. We took them back and stayed quiet.

Even if you decide not to tell the T what Robin is feeling I think it's really good that she wants to know the T cares for her. Because I feel like it's a sign she could have a positive relationship with someone.

******Trigger warning******

We got a lot of attention and affection or were completely forgotten and ignored when we were growing up. But the affection we got never positive positive or healthy.

******Warning end*****

So now Nixie is the one most in need of help and a healthy positive relationship but any overt sign of affection or someone caring for her makes her more frightened. She spends most of her time being coconscious because she hates being alone as well so the rest of us are finding it hard to accept positive affection.

Anyway my point is I think it's really good that Robin wants something to keep so she knows your T cares, that she has someone she can talk to. So even if it makes the rest of you to vulnerable and you can't tell your T please tell Robin there is nothing wrong with wanting someone to care and listen or wanting evidence and proof of that.

Since I saw my T this morning, and this was on my mind, I let him read it (fireheart's first two posts, my response, and birdsong's response).

I'm not going to get into all the details (unless anyone wants me to), because Ts are all different, and boundaries are a very complicated issue. My T thought the most important thing was what I said about "asking about asking." Because Ts have different ideas about this stuff and it's important to talk about how they would respond to requests for various things.

He trains lots of therapists and teaches about boundaries. If they are too rigid and tight then it's too cold, and if they are too loose, it isn't safe.

He agreed with everything I wrote (not surprising, since I pick most of this up from how he treats me), and also with what Jenia told to Robin.

I know that if one of us wanted a birthday card, we would talk to him about what we wanted and what it meant and then he would figure out what he would do based on that. He certainly doesn't agree that gifts are only for friends and parents to give. He gives small Christmas presents to all of his clients. Ours was a chocolate thing that wasn't something we would like to eat, so it's up on a shelf in his office where I can see it. But the thought behind it was to show caring and appreciation.

fireheart wrote:maybe if we can take care of the needs enough, then she won't be hoping to get stuff from other people.

But....... that being said, I don't think Robin agrees with me (at all). She said something about how she doesn't even want stupid stuff, she just wants someone to care. She doesn't want another mummy, she wants something to keep at home to remind her of the therapeutic relationship. That there is someone who listens, and who comes back after Holidays.
So, that makes me feel like it is more about basic connection rather than getting a present.

I really try to listen to my littles--I think they are usually closer to the emotional truth of things than grownups. And they are the ones who really suffered the lack of a secure attachment. Ts can't make up for everything, but they can create an unconditionally positive holding environment (lots of big words) that allows the littles to heal. And anything toward that end, that also stays within safe boundaries, is a good thing.

If it made you uncomfortable, fireheart, for your T to ask to photos of your birthday party, then you should definitely tell her. But if there are littles who really want to show them to her and your discomfort is only about being vulnerable, then that's important to know. She clearly understands that your birthday is an important event for the littles and that they want her to be a part of it.

Well, I went on and on again--sorry. Hope this is at least more food for thought.

I too support the idea of talking about the wish. It might lead to a good conversation.
I think that there are cultural differences in treatment. Where we live Ts tend to have boundaries of not touching patients, not giving gifts and we always call each other by last name. Ts generally try to get systems to take care of themselves instead of taking a caring role and build attachment only with the adults of the system.
there are def different approaches. Where I live people seem to be more distant in general, so it doesn't feel cold or distant. we do things with words here. A skilled T can make us feel accepted and cared about with words too.