cry for attachment vs phobia of attachment

there is a lot of change going on in therapeutic relationships at the moment.
in december we lost our main T and we have had T-interviews (like job interviews but worse) since then. until today we havent found a new main T, but more interviews are scheduled.
we are about to lose our assistant T as well. an appointment with the woman who takes his patients is scheduled.
as well as an interview with an outpatient treatment center.

in all of this connection and attachment has become a serious problem.
some of the kids are frantic about losing another attachment figure. they would cling to anyone. most of the people we talked to have not been qualified and the inner tension of not finding help is leading to an attempt of panicked clinging by child parts.

the adults are getting more desillusioned with every day. less trusting. wary. defensive. and rejecting any offer of connection. thoughts like "then we will just do it alone", driven by frustration and disappointment and hurt. but also intense fear of attachment.

we have lost enough people lately. cant afford attachment. its too dangerous. too painful.
there is something close to panic at the thought of meeting another T.
the upcoming interviews feel like going to a battlefield where we have to protect ourselfs and keep those people away.

the older ones try to silence the kids and their neediness. its not getting us anywhere. we need clear judgment when talking to those people.

in this struggle dissociation is taking over. this extreme sense of everything being unreal.
does anyone know how to stop this gap between alters with different needs in relationships getting wider? we aim for opposing things. its just not working out and we lose stability while looking like fools.
we are fighting ourselves when there is a real challenge on the outside and we become unable to face it when we get lost in dissociation.

birdsong87 wrote:there is a lot of change going on in therapeutic relationships at the moment.
in december we lost our main T and we have had T-interviews (like job interviews but worse) since then. until today we havent found a new main T, but more interviews are scheduled.
we are about to lose our assistant T as well. an appointment with the woman who takes his patients is scheduled.
as well as an interview with an outpatient treatment center.

This sounds like hell on earth no wonder you are suffering sounds like you are coping as well as could be expected under the circumstances.

birdsong87 wrote:the older ones try to silence the kids and their neediness. its not getting us anywhere. we need clear judgment when talking to those people.

in this struggle dissociation is taking over. this extreme sense of everything being unreal.
does anyone know how to stop this gap between alters with different needs in relationships getting wider? we aim for opposing things. its just not working out and we lose stability while looking like fools.
we are fighting ourselves when there is a real challenge on the outside and we become unable to face it when we get lost in dissociation.

Hi Birdsong - before I start may I say that from knowing your past posts etc I know that you are not a foolish but I understand the fear of feeling foolish.

The the phrase that stuck with me from your thread was 'the older ones try to silence the kids in their neediness'. You all seem pretty needy at the moment and it is a fact that the more you try to silence need the louder the neediness gets. It is more difficult for the older ones to cope with kids neediness when they are also insecure. Vicious circle. But again so much going on and high stakes.

Your statement 'we loose stability while looking like fools' am wondering what that is about and whether for the older ones acknowledging their neediness feels foolish i.e. floundering in the face of not getting the 'right' support whilst trying to deal with a bunch of kids getting attached to inappropriate people and all the strain that goes with that - when all you are trying to do is your best for everybody. Sounds absolutely exhausting. No wonder you want to silence the kids. Sounds like you all need a break.

So bridging the gap during this turmoil.
My kids have been hiding under bedclothes for the last few weeks because the adults are in a mess. General feeling of neglect unable to manage any sensible reassuring comforting dialogue. We wrote the littles a letter acknowledging that we understood their distress, acknowledging that we are struggling but that does not mean they are forgotten and that although it is difficult we are trying to find the right help....and you are making progress (however much like wading through mud it feels). This has calmed things for us a little. I don't know if you saw my post yesterday in the 'How are you today' thread but my littles are also having big attachment issues and we ended up acknowledging this in a meeting with some nurses yesterday we have both shame and elation over this. We wept, felt destroyed inside and yes we felt foolish but in the long term I think it was the correct course of action.

For the general dissociation back to basics - grounding stuff. I hate grounding - the reason I dissociate is because I am escaping I don't want to be here it is both distressing and comforting at the same time I can't help it I resent being told I should do it but there are times when you have just got to get to grips with it. Its like steering into a skid. Maybe between all this business back to basics - self care, grounding whatever it takes to get a bit of fresh air in that bell jar.

Take care. Get some rest.

i am aware that it is a vicious cycle
i can somehow acknowledge the kids neediness but the expression of it feels unsafe.
its not just that we are trying to "control" the kids.
the thought of attachment is connected to deep fears. its just something we cannot do.
i cant just press a button and be open to new people. or even talk freely with them.
somehow i feel like i have to take both sides seriously
or maybe none.
maybe all of this is based on believing lies.

i feel foolish because i consider dissociating in front of people as very shameful. when i cant keep control over the body and cant get present.

You have some very clear statements there Birdsong.

birdsong87 wrote:
i feel foolish because i consider dissociating in front of people as very shameful. when i cant keep control over the body and cant get present.

We know this one well.
and as for

birdsong87 wrote:somehow i feel like i have to take both sides seriously
or maybe none.

For me leads to silence in a room full of strangers and consequent dissociation. Sometimes reminds me of the still water that occurs between conflicting currents. I used to mediate for a living until the triggers got too much.

Your original question above was about bridging the gap. I don't think I was necessarily thinking of 'controlling' the kids more acknowledging the needs of both sides and that it is really really tough because you are the one stuck in the middle with the conflict. You seem under a punishing amount of pressure to do right by everyone.

Right now I am reminding myself of a meeting I had with 2 nurses yesterday. They both seemed to be floundering around trying to say something useful whilst 'I' sat between the currents in total silence. In this case I feel like person trying to be helpful whilst observing somebody else in pain.

You are probably doing a lot better job than you think you are its not an easy job.

things have calmed down a little bit. as long as we dont think about upcoming events and meeting new Ts.
grounding seems to mean to stay away from those thoughts for now and enjoy the coffee.

i do wonder though if maybe the solution is not in compromise.

the kids are looking for an attachment figure to be their parent and friend. that is something that will be dissappointed in any case because Ts dont do this. in my country the approach is one the is strengthening the system, not caretaking for single alters needs. no matter what, these needs will not be met in a T relationship. the kids might cry out but its not going to happen.

on the other hand, if i am very sober about it, the T relationship will probably not be dangerously emotional. experience has shown that Ts stay away from that and they do not push for kids to come out or dig into vulnerable topics until we fall apart.

what i am trying to say is that this is a lot of noise about something that has little to do with the real t-relationships. so far we have always been treated like our own specialist, like a very capable and adult person who can handle inner conflict and none of the Ts has ever make friendly contact with the kids. they all encourage us grown ups to take care. and we know we can do that and its not scary.

yes, there are real and very deep feelings about losing another T.
and its not gonna be easy to get used to a new one who is a woman.
but none of this has anything to do with attachment, as those people are not really available attachment figures anyway.

does that make any sense?

You always make sense Birdsong.

I have never had a T that engaged directly with anyone but an adult. I have two external kids (now adults) and often try and look after the internal kids in the same way- I am hoping this is an improvement on 'my' actual experience. My kids suffer from terrible desire for attachment - particularly with male Ts and knowing this is never going to be fulfilled causes massive pain because they only have 'me' and it is hard to see one's children suffer. My T has pointed out that it is all me anyway but it seems a massive responsibility especially when there are others that also have needs.

Its a funny old life. Tea, we are drinking tea. Glad things have calmed down.