Parts that are close and similar to one another

I have heard from a couple of people who have alters that are really similar to one another. I guess by "similar," I am mostly meaning that we seem to share many of our memories (but not feelings, and the memories have different perspectives) and are not very distinct in terms of external presentation, much less so than with other alters. By "close," I mean that our thoughts tend to overlap or overrun one another's. We shift rapidly and frequently and barely notice, unlike with other alters where it's a big deal. It's not a problem, but it's confusing and to B., upsetting. Why are we like this? Did we used to be integrated but came apart? What is the point of that? And should we do anything about it?

Our narrative:
Today through therapy (not really during but reflecting while driving home), we recognized an alter between Alex and B. We three parts are usually very close to one another, though Alex and B. are more distinct from one another and the other part is between them. Lately Alex has been more distant. When Alex is fully "out," he is very different. but in terms of typical superficial presentation, we are so similar. As far as I can tell:

Alex: male, proactive, not too self-obsessed, focused on others, responsible.

other part: androgynous and asexual but more masculine than feminine, often apathetic, hazy/dead inside, sad somewhere but resigned to it and to moving on. musician, an when playing music is more alive.

B.: androgynous (more female than other part), anxious, frequent physical dissociative symtoms, polite. prone to denial.

Other part: Seems like identifying ourselves is pointless. What value would I have? I'm just here. The therapist said when alters are very close together, they can be candidates for fusion if they choose. In the car on the way home, I thought how awesome it would be if I could be that much closer to Alex. I felt something for the first time in ages. I felt grief that we are in this mess and amazed that we have each other. Imagine me not being stuck in this haze and instead being more alive. The thought gave me hope. I could see B. next to me. Seemed upset at me being here.

B.: I'm not upset that you're here. It was just disconcerting to discover you. And more confusing because no one would ever guess on the outside that we are even different even if we feel different between ourselves. It makes me feel like this is some narcissistic joke.

Other part: Yeah, we're just one big joke. Whatever.

B.: Sorry. I don't know what to say. It just freaks me out that who I thought I was is partially you. But we are all one person in the end, I guess.

Are we just regular ego states of another, or alters? This is so confusing that it hurts.

Wow thank (each of) u for sharing. What u said has shed some light on my puzzlement about my parts. Very insightful to hear about overlapping and fast switching vs not so fast, and relationships between parts. And about fusion. I guess I realize now that I heard a part speak in first person and another referring to me as "her." Still wondering if it was about me or maybe an introject of my big sister. Anyway, your comments are helpful to me! Helped my brainstorming process-jogging my ways of looking at and understanding myself

My very first reaction to this was that there is Melissa and I...we share all memories, all access to information. We just have very different ways of viewing and internalizing what is happening around us. And, of course very different ways of emoting

But, then I thought about the other "adult" parts. The ones in addition to Melissa and I that work to keep the "Amy" persona in the world. Thanks to Bryan, we all share information...just not experiences. We all have slightly, or not so slightly, different views and ways of thinking of the world and how we react. There is the "triad" who sometimes work independently of each other and sometimes Bryan has them merge so that they are "Amy". This would be Dorothy (homemaker), Zoe (business-minded, organizer) and Betsy (brainiac, computer-technology). When they are out separately I find that I present very one-dimensionally. They know what is going on in our world but really have no feeling about it unless it directly affects their area. In fact, I would say as a group they are emotionally numb. Together, they present a fairly well-rounded, self-assured, yet unemotional "Amy" to the world.

Compared to the littles, who are very emotional...may or may not have current knowledge, may know what is going on but have trouble "recognizing" it. The littles are very, very different from the adult parts, very recognizable when they front. And, have very different, child-like reactions to current life experiences. Very often get triggered into flashbacks and such.

So, yes I guess we have a number of parts that on the surface are very similar to one another. This is because of Bryan, I believe. His job is to make sure we present in as "normal" a way as possible so that we are not traumatized by being hospitalized again. He manages us so that we can function as well as possible. If we are constantly presenting from one extreme to another there would probably be problems. But, that doesn't mean that we don't experience what is going on differently. Melissa is much less trusting and very protective of us...life and people are all threats so she does not get close to any one. Me, I am a people-pleaser, I am wary of the world too but feel that the best way to be is as invisible and unintrusive as possible. The triad...they are doers. They see the world but it doesn't really affect them, so they can come across as very obtuse towards other people or irritated when it intrudes on what they are doing. To those that don't know...99.9% of people, I can just be really moody or very focused on a project.

I'm not sure if this is what you were talking about, but it has actually helped me to write all this out. It has helped me to understand the Triad a bit more.

We don't see each other on the inside, so we have to rely on tone of voice, word choice, emotions, and a general "feel." We get frustrated when we don't seem differentiated enough, or if we mistake someone for someone else, or when we're not sure who's who at the moment. We sometimes don't know where one of us ends and another begins. And we sometimes find that our preconceived notions of ourselves and of each other don't match who we really are.

We'd much rather have a more distinct sense of respective identities and boundaries. It feels a lot safer.

MDs

Thanks for replying. am4kds, you always have good stuff to say. MDs, your perspective is helpful, too. I can relate.

ChandlerAnnie, I'm glad this was helpful to you. Keep reading. I think at least 60% of my progress is due to the people and posts of this board. I've learned so much in 6 months.

I really liked reading details about your alters, am4kds. When I try to think about mine as a group today I just dissociate and get a worse headache. It is interesting how we have many similarities, though. What you describe resonates with me.

MDs, my therapist told me that usually the confusion about who is who clarifies as therapy progresses. Have you found that to be the case? Though also my T seems to take a view that there is the main host and then there are the alters. In my case passive influence is so strong that the host can barely exist or do anything alone. The host seems more like a fragment than a fleshed out alter. I wonder if this sense of things in our case is a sign of progress or more just a sign of being really messed up. Or just the way we are made.

Also your comment about not matching who you think you are rings true with me. Alex is the most decisive of the three above and tends to make sweeping judgments of how we are. He is often wrong. It seems like just when we figure something out, it changes again.

Nondescript wrote:Though also my T seems to take a view that there is the main host and then there are the alters. In my case passive influence is so strong that the host can barely exist or do anything alone. The host seems more like a fragment than a fleshed out alter. I wonder if this sense of things in our case is a sign of progress or more just a sign of being really messed up. Or just the way we are made.

This is where our T and I tend to disagree also. She also believes in the "core" or main host idea. But, everything we know of our system tends to disagree with that. Or at least who she believes to be the core. She has not met all of the core yet. We have tried to tell her about the core, but she doesn't really seem to believe it right now. There is "Amy" the alter and "Amy" the persona...but there is no core that answers to that name. "Amy" the alter is a very weak front, but very sensitive to other people which allows for easy blending and influence as needed. "Amy" the persona, the one most see, is just who we have created to function in public through the blending and influence... it doesn't always stay the same. We have not been totally upfront all the time with our T, there are certain alters whom we let her get to know, but very often she is meeting with someone other than Amy and we don't tell her. I'm the one that generally controls how T sessions go.

Amy very much wanted to dig in and find out who she was without us. But we could not let her find out the truth. That she is really only a smoke-screen, a wisp. A chameleon by nature...So we stopped that. We try to change the focus to learning who we all are, together. When she accepted that she was an alter and not a core, even though our T believes that, things have been a little better. We just don't bring it up.

Nondescript,

We'll just agree to disagree with your T on the matter of host/alters. We may not know all there is about our system, but we know it best. The therapist and the therapy process can provide invaluable guidance, but ultimately the truth lies within us, not in a psychology textbook or a set of preexisting external standards for correctness. As our former T (now retired) would say, "It's your journey. I'm just here to carry a map and a flashlight."

am4kids,

A lot of what you said rings true for us. Your description of the various Amys is a great example. For us, there's BodyName, which we see as purely an external construct that exists for legal purposes, and to identify ourselves to family members and strangers. Then there's BodyNameInitials, a construct that serves the same purpose for 3d friends and co-workers.

Neither BodyName nor BodyNameInitials are people, nor are they our system as a whole, nor are they individual system members. They're just two ways of labeling the container that is our fabricated external identity.

Thanks, both of you, for giving us the opportunity to talk about these things. It helps us as much as we hope it helps you.

MDs

Nondescript wrote:we seem to share many of our memories (but not feelings, and the memories have different perspectives) and are not very distinct in terms of external presentation, much less so than with other alters. By "close," I mean that our thoughts tend to overlap or overrun one another's. We shift rapidly and frequently and barely notice, unlike with other alters where it's a big deal. It's not a problem, but it's confusing and to B., upsetting. Why are we like this? Did we used to be integrated but came apart? What is the point of that? And should we do anything about it?

This is totally how we feel as well. I don't let it bother me too much but sometimes Harriot gets upset. i ask the same questions sometimes

Nondescript wrote:Other part: Seems like identifying ourselves is pointless. What value would I have? I'm just here. The therapist said when alters are very close together, they can be candidates for fusion if they choose.

Are we just regular ego states of another, or alters? This is so confusing that it hurts.

I can't see any of the alters wanting to 'fuse'. There's usually some fear, or some unique value we each hold that we couldn't let go of in order to do something like that. I'm co-con with Harriot most of the time (because she needs my guidance, I believe) but fusing with her?

I think when you get to the bottom of alters, ego state is probably an apt description. I feel like my own person, but I do share a brain and memories. Confusing is an understatement.

Colher-6 wrote:I can't see any of the alters wanting to 'fuse'. There's usually some fear, or some unique value we each hold that we couldn't let go of in order to do something like that. I'm co-con with Harriot most of the time (because she needs my guidance, I believe) but fusing with her?

I think when you get to the bottom of alters, ego state is probably an apt description. I feel like my own person, but I do share a brain and memories. Confusing is an understatement.

Leon,

Our (the two of us, not necessarily our whole system) is similar to what you describe of yourself and Harriot. We are virtually always together, even when we may not necessarily want to be. We know and balance each other well, but would never want to fuse/blend/whatever.

Laura, Allegra, and others
(the "and others" is just a way of acknowledging that the system at large is always there)