Can dissociative identity disorder be caused without trauma?

Sweet_berries wrote:Or is every case caused by severe trauma before the age of three but the mind can not recall it. And can someone really have a traumatic experience especially if they were younger and completely block it out and forget it ever happened.Could someone have DID and not recall being abused but rather having a happy childhood.


May trigger


So far the current theory is that trauma causes this, and its been confirmed over and over. However, cases where it exists without trauma aren't known to my knowledge. Thats not to say a few cases may or may not exist. Also keep in mind trauma is a relative term; its dependent on age, culture, gender and simply what the specific person finds to be traumatic.


Not being able to recall a traumatic even at all especially in early childhood is a norm rather than an exception. Dissociation is an exceptionally powerful defense mechanism and in the most serve cases literally years of time may be missing. Definitely some people may recall only good memories but not bad ones from the same period of time. If the DID mechanism is well formed certainly one can switch as the danger is about to happen, then switch back once its gone and then back as it comes again. Each time that switch allows the good and bad memories to be contained and away from each other. This is the primary protective function of DID. Very frequently, one personality may have all the good memories of a person or place while another alter might have all the bad ones. Its this structure that allows healthy functioning in another state to be preserved. And keeps trauma walled off. Often the state(s) that hold the trauma has the cognitive abilities to do so. That state may be psychopathic, not have the ability to feel pain or it may sexualize trauma (among other ways) as a way to handle it. Its also not unheard of for some states that hold trauma to mirror the personality of the abuser, or at least such a state to exist independently.

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Also, do you guys find this kind of thing happening to you. A couple of days ago I was asked by my father to make him a cup of tea and I immediately went in the kitchen and put the tea on the stove, however I completely forgot about it since and to the extent that the kettle started burning. Now I was in another room after approximately 30 minutes I smelt something burning and thought it was our neighbors so I went to my mom and asked her if she put something on the stove she said no and I figured it had to be our neighbors but then 6 minutes later I walk into the kitchen and realise that it was me who put it there but I had no memory of putting it there and yes I received a good piece of yelling from my parents. Does this happen to you often and if so, what is this called. Can someone please explain to me what happened there.

Wow Spot on. That I know.

Its actually very common for DID and even other trauma disorders. Switching of alters can cause as well as being very absent minded. People with DID can often get very absorbed with something while forgetting something else all together. Its normal for many.

Sweet_berries wrote: Also, do you guys find this kind of thing happening to you. A couple of days ago I was asked by my father to make him a cup of tea and I immediately went in the kitchen and put the tea on the stove, however I completely forgot about it since and to the extent that the kettle started burning. Now I was in another room after approximately 30 minutes I smelt something burning and thought it was our neighbors so I went to my mom and asked her if she put something on the stove she said no and I figured it had to be our neighbors but then 6 minutes later I walk into the kitchen and realise that it was me who put it there but I had no memory of putting it there and yes I received a good piece of yelling from my parents. Does this happen to you often and if so, what is this called. Can someone please explain to me what happened there.

It seems like when you put the kettle on the stove, you switch with an alter who completed that part of the task for you and then left the room before you switched back to the front. This happens to be a lot. My dad will ask me to get him something to drink from the kitchen and while down there, I'll decide to get myself something too and completely forget about my dad's request until I go back upstairs and he reminds me or if someone gives me more than one thing to do and has me stop my first task to do the second one, I will not remember the first task and it will be left unfinished, which can result in my mom yelling at me for not completing it. Same thing with conversations. I'll forget parts of conversations and miss crucial information. This happens a lot when I'm talking to my mom and then it's really annoying because she believes I did hear her and will refuse to repeat the order leaving me to guess what she asked me to do.

Here's what I have learned in therapy and in talking with others with DID, trauma is always needed for DID, though as others pointed out, what constitutes trauma is different from person to person. Also, from what I know, the type, severity, and duration of the trauma needed for DID to occur is different for each individual as well because everyone has different tolerance levels and will dissociate from different things. In addition, I learned that one event can be enough to result in DID if it is severely traumatic for the individual and there is a real or implied threat to life and limb. Now as to the question about trauma before age 3, from what I know, it is the fact that children under a certain age have no concrete concept of self and identity that makes DID possible. If the child had a sense of identity they would not be able to develop DID at all. In addition, the younger a child is the more likely it is that they will dissociate. This happens because they do not have other coping mechanisms in place, but dissociation will happen only if they have the inborn ability to do so. Dissociation, from what I have learned, is not something everyone can do, it is not something that is learned but is instead something that one is genetically wired to do and can do from birth. That is why not everyone who goes through sever trauma develops DID or dissociates, they instead cope through other means. Also, once a child has used dissociation to cope they will continue to do so because it works. Finally, from what I have learned in therapy, in young children the separate identities are not concretely established as separate, which is why children in therapy for DID take much less time to connect with and recover memories from "alters" than adults. This is also why children almost always integrate spontaneously if therapy is started before identity is set, while adults and older children may never integrate or even want to. I hope this was clear and answers your questions.
Kit

Thank you Kit,
I really appreciate your answer, it's very helpful have another question though. How can you tell the difference between someone having DID and someone who has just a very blended and diverse personality. What marks the possibility of having DID, is there a clear-cut indicator. And do alters just switch without being noticed by the person, also do people who have DID realize that they have it or not. And how do you know when you're talking to the host or an alter.

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm just really curious about this, and thanks again.

Sweet_berries wrote:Thank you Kit,
I really appreciate your answer, it's very helpful have another question though. How can you tell the difference between someone having DID and someone who has just a very blended and diverse personality.



The biggest criteria is that a non DID person or one acting the disorder has no amnesia or memory gaps between 'personality shifts'. All memory stays the same, no changes in autobiographical memory. Also no cognitive abilities change, pain tolerance ect. People who have DID also have tent to have other symptoms such as somatoform, PTSD, anxiety to list a few.


What marks the possibility of having DID, is there a clear-cut indicator.

Others might disagree here, but I wouldn't say there is any major red flag indicator other than personality shifts and asymmetrical amnesia. Even then an alter may not be so dramatic (one might behave a lot like the other) but still be separate personality states. But not to say any other symptoms could be present. Its up to a T to investigate further as to what is causing those symptoms; if they are from DID or another disorder. What brings people with DID to therapy generally tends to be various symptoms associated with the disorder rather than the classical movie or book portrayal of a person one moment being a suburban housewife then floridly changing into a lumber jack with different a different name, voice ect. The florid DID described in books and movies is very rare.

On a side note, the symptoms a person with DID may be afflicted can be very broad, with many or only several. DID often present symptoms from any combination of DSM disorders. This is why people with DID are frequently misdiagnosed with other disorders; a person with DID getting different labels over the years in not uncommon either. A person with DID can have intense mood swings where Bipolar disorder is diagnosed, anxiety disorders, depression; an alter may have sociopathic behaviors where antisocial personality disorder is diagnosed; unstable relationships with anger depression ect where Borderline personality disorder is diagnosed or other personality diosder. A person with alters having a different gender from the body may be diagnosed with GID or a sexual disorder; sleep disturbances are common with DID so sleep disorders might be diagnosed; attention problems as ADHD; flash backs as PTSD (which btw is so common in DID my T says its very frequently diagnosed in addition to DID). If a patient describes alters talking inside their head, or has trance like states resembling catonia or stupors, they might be diagnosed with Schizophrenia which is actually highly detrimental to those with DID since the treatment course for psychotic disorders is very different than dissociative disorders. A person who tells a T they have alters might be diagnosed with delusional disorder by a T who doesn't believe in DID which to is detrimental. An ironic note is that DID has more schneiderian first rank symptoms then schizophrenia, which is why none believing Ts frequently misdiagnose multiples. To put it simply a person with DID may have the symptoms from any DSM disorder and its this that usually gets them into therapy.




And do alters just switch without being noticed by the person, also do people who have DID realize that they have it or not. And how do you know when you're talking to the host or an alter.


Most people who have DID don't know they have it, though they know something isn't right. Often an extremely poor memory is present and its the first thing they talk about. Some might suspect it, but most don't. People with DID might accidently refer to themselves as ''we'' when making a statement instead of "I".


Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm just really curious about this, and thanks again.

Hope this helps.

Sweet_berries wrote:Thank you Kit,
I really appreciate your answer, it's very helpful have another question though. How can you tell the difference between someone having DID and someone who has just a very blended and diverse personality. What marks the possibility of having DID, is there a clear-cut indicator. And do alters just switch without being noticed by the person, also do people who have DID realize that they have it or not. And how do you know when you're talking to the host or an alter.

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm just really curious about this, and thanks again.

You're very welcome, I am glad my answer was helpful. Before I answer your questions, I first want to say that my answers are based solely on my own experiences and those of others I have spoken with, as well as general research on DID. My answers are in no way representative of all individuals with DID as level of symptomology and experiences will vary from person to person.

You can tell the difference between a person with DID and a person with a diverse and blended personality in a number of ways, if you know what to look for, though this will depend on their level of functionality. Firstly, someone with DID will be unable to recall important personal information that cannot be explained by forgetfulness. For example, you will go somewhere with them and later when you talk to them about where you went, they will have no recollection of this, though they may hide this well. Conversely, a person with a diverse personality will not have these periods of amnesia. Secondly, a person with DID will have variations in basic personality traits.These can include things like mannerisms, ways of speaking(in my experience this is most noticeable in child "alters"), ways of walking, likes and dislikes, ways of reacting to a situation, taste in clothes, music, food, ect., moral values, and ways of processing emotions and relating to the world. The list of differences can be endless and the number and severity of these differences will be different depending on the individual. However, a person with a diverse personality will not have these variations in basic traits, while they may have varied interests their core personality traits such as ways of processing emotions and relating to the world will not change unless they make concerted conscious efforts to change them. Thirdly, a person with DID will have signs of dissociation, though again these may be well hidden. Some signs of dissociation include identity confusion (as in who am I?), detachment for themselves, familiar people, or their surroundings, and frequent "spacing out". Now, while a person with a diverse personality could experience dissociation beyond the normal, it would not be to the same degree as that experienced by a person with DID. Fourthly, a person with DID would be unaware of their past traumas, while a diverse person would, outside of a mental illness or physical injury, be able to recall memories of any time in their life including trauma. Fifthly, a person with DID would not be aware of "their" behavior or they would be aware but be unable to control what is going on(think riding the bus but not driving the bus). Finally, a person with DID would experience markedly different relationships with others depending on who was out. An example of this is the host is married to a man and one of the others, a child, sees him like a father figure. A person with a diverse personality would not have such starkly different ways of relating to the same person.

The most clear cut indicators of DID are the presence of more than one personality who controls the behavior of the person and amnesia beyond normal forgetfulness( though people who have always been co-conscious would only have amnesia of the trauma that resulted in the DID). While not everyone will be aware of the presence of other personalities they will likely be aware of their forgetfulness or lost time. In fact, this is what usually prompts people to go into therapy, that or other symptoms related to the DID(such as hearing voices) or co-occurant disorders. Misdiagnosis, however, is common, so it may take time for a person to receive the right diagnosis. For instance, we were not diagnosed with DID until we were an adult, despite being in therapy on and off for years during childhood for co-occurant issues.

Whether or not people realize a switch has occurred depends on a number of factors. For instance are they co-conscious or do they have amnesic barriers(meaning they are not aware of the existence of their other(s)) and do they experience physical symptoms of a switch or is the transition seamless. Also, a person may not realize a switch has happened until after they have switched back or will suddenly realize they are not in the front anymore(since becoming co-conscious with some of the others I have experienced this from time to time, though usually a switch for us is precipitated by feelings of dissociation, headaches, a feeling of dizziness, and a feeling of wind rushing horizontally across our brain). Basically, whether a person notices or not will depend on the person.

Whether a persona realizes they have DID is, again, dependent on the person and whether they have a correct diagnosis or any diagnosis at all. Some people will think they are going crazy, some people will know something is off but dismiss it as normal, others will be aware of their others but not know the word for it or why they have it. Also, denial is a common symptom of DID, so even when a person has a diagnosis of DID they may be unwilling or unable to admit they have it even to themselves; this can be ongoing or crop up from time to time depending on their level of healing and acceptance.

How you know whether you are talking to the host or an "alter" is a tough question to answer. First of all, depending on the "system's" level of comfort with you, they may not inform you when a switch has occurred. Also, "alters" will sometimes pretend to be the host or other "alters". In addition, it may be hard to tell one "alter" from another or from the host, because the level of difference between them may not be readily noticeable, DID as seen on TV is rare(though we personally do have a high level of variation, this is not the norm). Basically, your best bet is usually to ask who you are speaking with if you are unsure. A warning though, some people may find it offensive if you ask, so how you discern who you are talking to(or if you notice a change at all) will depend on the person and what everyone is most comfortable with in the group you are speaking to.

I hope this has been helpful and I don't mind you asking lots of questions in the least. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
(note: I put "alter", "system" etc. in "" because we do not like to use the clinical words, for the most part, as we find them dehumanizing. I felt it necessary to use them here for the sake of clarity and so we decided the "" was the best way to be clear and remain comfortable. Also for the sake of clarity we do not mind if others use those words, we just do not like to use them ourselves)
Kit

@Riccola - Thank you so much. I think I am starting to understand this more and feel less intimidated. For most people around me think that DID and Schizophrenia are one and the same. So they think having DID makes you psychotic and there's a lot of stigma about it. I'm sure you guys know more about this than anyone else as you are experiencing it firsthand. Thanks again.

@Kit. I really can't thank you enough. Thank you for taking the time to write this very informative and eell though-out post. Well I took an online test for the sake og it and I scored 64 so it's not unlikely t I might have DID but I just don't feel like I have it. I pretty much can relate to most of the points you mentioned although I don't really recall any trauma but I do space out a lot and I have a very poor short term memory. Um I was wondering if it's common for other people to tell you you have DID but you don't believe that you do. Some people keep saying I have this and they are openly labelling me as mentally ill and e en informing other people as though it's a fact despite not being diagnosrd by a professional. I don't really like this because I feel like they're doing this to demean me and spread unverified rumors about me which zI don't regard. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I mean this is an exceptionally rare disorder and not just anyone can diagnose it but oh well. I also feel like I am possessed sometimes or when I see my childhood photos I feel like it's another person that's gone now and was replaced it's a creepy and weird feeling. Something else I'd like to add, I have noticed that I avoid mirrors in fact it seems like I actively avoid and intentionally never look at myself in the mirror it's extremely extremely hard for me to do it.

Sweet_berries wrote:@Riccola - Thank you so much. I think I am starting to understand this more and feel less intimidated. For most people around me think that DID and Schizophrenia are one and the same. So they think having DID makes you psychotic and there's a lot of stigma about it. I'm sure you guys know more about this than anyone else as you are experiencing it firsthand. Thanks again.

@Kit. I really can't thank you enough. Thank you for taking the time to write this very informative and eell though-out post. Well I took an online test for the sake og it and I scored 64 so it's not unlikely t I might have DID but I just don't feel like I have it..

Which online test did you take out of curiosity?

[quote="Sweet_berries"I pretty much can relate to most of the points you mentioned although I don't really recall any trauma but I do space out a lot and I have a very poor short term memory. Um I was wondering if it's common for other people to tell you you have DID but you don't believe that you do. Some people keep saying I have this and they are openly labelling me as mentally ill and e en informing other people as though it's a fact despite not being diagnosrd by a professional. I don't really like this because I feel like they're doing this to demean me and spread unverified rumors about me which zI don't regard.[/quote]

Well, people like to play doctor but most of the time people saying that have no concept of the disorder other than what they found on the internet, mainly YouTube which can be very misleading.

[quote="Sweet_berries"I hope I didn't offend anyone. I mean this is an exceptionally rare disorder and not just anyone can diagnose it but oh well. I also feel like I am possessed sometimes or when I see my childhood photos I feel like it's another person that's gone now and was replaced it's a creepy and weird feeling. Something else I'd like to add, I have noticed that I avoid mirrors in fact it seems like I actively avoid and intentionally never look at myself in the mirror it's extremely extremely hard for me to do it.[/quote]

Well, it's not that rare. DID affects 1% of the world's population. I can also relate to the feeling you get when looking at childhood photos because I feel that way myself. I don't find myself avoiding mirrors though. I do notice that I have a hard time making eye contact with people including my family and my brother always points it out when I'm angry. I won't look directly at the person I'm angry at. This also causes conflict with my mom because she thinks I don't like her, which isn't true, because of my difficulty with eye contact.

Violarules wrote:

Sweet_berries wrote:@Riccola - Thank you so much. I think I am starting to understand this more and feel less intimidated. For most people around me think that DID and Schizophrenia are one and the same. So they think having DID makes you psychotic and there's a lot of stigma about it. I'm sure you guys know more about this than anyone else as you are experiencing it firsthand. Thanks again.

@Kit. I really can't thank you enough. Thank you for taking the time to write this very informative and eell though-out post. Well I took an online test for the sake og it and I scored 64 so it's not unlikely t I might have DID but I just don't feel like I have it..

Which online test did you take out of curiosity?

[quote="Sweet_berries"I pretty much can relate to most of the points you mentioned although I don't really recall any trauma but I do space out a lot and I have a very poor short term memory. Um I was wondering if it's common for other people to tell you you have DID but you don't believe that you do. Some people keep saying I have this and they are openly labelling me as mentally ill and e en informing other people as though it's a fact despite not being diagnosrd by a professional. I don't really like this because I feel like they're doing this to demean me and spread unverified rumors about me which zI don't regard.

Well, people like to play doctor but most of the time people saying that have no concept of the disorder other than what they found on the internet, mainly YouTube which can be very misleading.

[quote="Sweet_berries"I hope I didn't offend anyone. I mean this is an exceptionally rare disorder and not just anyone can diagnose it but oh well. I also feel like I am possessed sometimes or when I see my childhood photos I feel like it's another person that's gone now and was replaced it's a creepy and weird feeling. Something else I'd like to add, I have noticed that I avoid mirrors in fact it seems like I actively avoid and intentionally never look at myself in the mirror it's extremely extremely hard for me to do it.[/quote]

Well, it's not that rare. DID affects 1% of the world's population. I can also relate to the feeling you get when looking at childhood photos because I feel that way myself. I don't find myself avoiding mirrors though. I do notice that I have a hard time making eye contact with people including my family and my brother always points it out when I'm angry. I won't look directly at the person I'm angry at. This also causes conflict with my mom because she thinks I don't like her, which isn't true, because of my difficulty with eye contact.[/quote]

First, so sorry for the spelling mistakes and typos, my keyboard isn't functioning very well lately. About the test I took, it's an online test; here's the link to it: http://www.pcsearle.com/screening/screen_des.html
I actually have the same issues with eye-contact which is why I believed I was an avoidant at first but still not too sure, I can also understand that it does make relationships harder because it's easy for people to misunderstand it as being rude, or uninterested in them.

I just took the same test and I scored 51.8. I find that interesting since I said never to three questions and my answers were low for many of them but like it says, it can't diagnose you. Also, a question I have for anyone who wants to answer is: Are there instances where you blame yourself for something, feel bad about it but then are told that it's not your fault and that you shouldn't blame yourself? I just had a moment like that where I thought I upset my mom which caused me to start crying and blaming myself but she told me that it wasn't my fault but a part of me thought and still does feel like taking the blame. Does anyone else have this?