Healing all parts of your life?

i just wanted you guys to know that I'm thinking of you and sending you good thoughts, and I'm so, so sorry you have to deal with all of this. (I've been really lucky this way - I was taught how to take care of myself physically well enough.) Please do not feel ashamed, none of this is your fault or your shame to have - it's entirely your "caregivers' " (I use " " because they obviously failed to care for you the way you deserved.)

If there's anything anyone wants to ask here or privately by PM, I'd be happy to help as best I can, and I promise I'll be understanding and non-judgmental.

lifelongthing, I wish I had the answers to your questions about physical health. I have chronic health issues myself (though they're not the result of abuse, except possibly as a result of stress) and am still figuring them out myself. The best I can advise is to trust yourself and to find professionals you can trust, and I think together you'll eventually figure out what you can do something about and what you can't. And I think the key to living with limitations you can't change is to focus on what you can still do and find fulfilling in life and build a life around that.

Very best wishes to all of you.

Thank you very very much AlteredArt. That was a very kind, gentle response - just what we were afraid we would not get. It brought tears to our eyes. Thank you.

Our goal in life is that all part of us get to have a meaningful and dignified life. We are trying our very best to have this include our body

We can relate. We had to go through a learning curve for the Basic Daily Things other people would have learned through their family. Even social cues had to be changed/relearned since some things had zero meaning (we'd never seen them before) while other things had a wrong meaning (we were taught something different as a sort of code) or just generally, in a social sense, a lot of us had vastly inappropriate reactions to things, or the ways we interacted were wrong. Hygiene was a mystery for a LONG time. When to shower, how to shower, washing hands, brushing hair, proper bathroom etiquette (toilets, sinks, etc), laundry. Most of that was addressed during a long IP-stay in hospital when the body was 12. We didn't know how to use silverware either. Or use a phone, or mail a letter, that kind of subtle stuff that experience would teach people over the childhood years. In hospital there was routine and we just sorta watched what other people did for the basic care, in terms of brushing hair, teeth, hands. The shower business and silverware took a while (and only some of us know these things even now). The household things like laundry and such were taught by a close friend. It's like learning how to be a human being while at the same time we were unlearning all these things that we thought were normal but were actually very dysfunctional. Learning how to function, basically. It was really formulaic for a while: we had a mental checklist and had to repeat the steps over and over until the process became habit.

As per the physical realm of things... for us, it boils down to: what is intolerable, what can be done, and what is irreparable damage. It's really damn unlikely the body will ever be able to have children because of scar tissue and damage down south. The pain associated with it, as far as we can tell, is a mainly PTSD thing- and a surgery to address this is not at the top of the list. Some of the nerve damage is permanent too. On the other hand, arthritis, osteoporosis, ulcers, spinal troubles, joint degeneration and such can be given medical aid (or at least stuff to reduce pain, depending) and we're still seeing specialists to deal with these things. If there is serious discomfort, if there is the slightest chance it is not psychosomatic, we will look into it. It's extremely annoying dealing with all these constant reminders of abuse in the body itself. It's like living in a scar that's simultaneously a reflection of the past.

You have made so much progress and you really are inspiring, my friends.
seeya, cleo

Thank you so much for answering Cleo. It's very late here so will reply to your post tomorrow. Thank you.

lifelongthing wrote:Thank you very very much AlteredArt. That was a very kind, gentle response - just what we were afraid we would not get. It brought tears to our eyes. Thank you.

Our goal in life is that all part of us get to have a meaningful and dignified life. We are trying our very best to have this include our body

You are so very welcome, lifelongthing. I think that's a wonderful goal, and I really hope it happens for you soon.

Thank you kindly

(replying piece by piece)
*trigger warning*

We can relate. We had to go through a learning curve for the Basic Daily Things other people would have learned through their family. Even social cues had to be changed/relearned since some things had zero meaning (we'd never seen them before) while other things had a wrong meaning (we were taught something different as a sort of code) or just generally, in a social sense, a lot of us had vastly inappropriate reactions to things, or the ways we interacted were wrong.

This was so true for us too. Learning normal social codes was such hard work. I wrote a book on etiquette around that time just to keep everything nice and tidy. When I got the hang of everything I had written down I deleted the book because the project was over: I had learned how to work my way in society at least on some basic level, for the most part

Hygiene was a mystery for a LONG time. When to shower, how to shower, washing hands, brushing hair, proper bathroom etiquette (toilets, sinks, etc), laundry. Most of that was addressed during a long IP-stay in hospital when the body was 12. We didn't know how to use silverware either. Or use a phone, or mail a letter, that kind of subtle stuff that experience would teach people over the childhood years. In hospital there was routine and we just sorta watched what other people did for the basic care, in terms of brushing hair, teeth, hands. The shower business and silverware took a while (and only some of us know these things even now). The household things like laundry and such were taught by a close friend. It's like learning how to be a human being while at the same time we were unlearning all these things that we thought were normal but were actually very dysfunctional. Learning how to function, basically. It was really formulaic for a while: we had a mental checklist and had to repeat the steps over and over until the process became habit.

My life for a couple of years summed up. I had a close friend who helped me learn a lot and an IP stay that helped a bit. Learning how to function was really a step by step process. People expect you to attach meaning to the rituals you do in daily living but when you don't know them you can't. I can now because I have done them for many years, but many things are new to us still. Brushing our teeth is one of the things in which a routine is still being made. Showering we are getting a lot better at and we are happy to say we are, according to our SO who has watched us and helped teach us now for almost a year, close to normal. Hooray. I'm glad you were able to learn, this gives me hope.

for us, it boils down to: what is intolerable, what can be done, and what is irreparable damage.

I'm sorry for the damage done to you. This seems sensible. But how do you tell the difference? Different alters in here perceive pain differently (some dissociative away everything while others are acutely aware for instance), some can be fixed but has a high risk involved in fixing it etc etc. How do you make the call? I feel like I'm standing on the top of a mountain being told if I just jump in the water it could be the best thing ever; or I might just die falling. But you know, if you never try.. It's just hard I think to know yet

On the other hand, arthritis, osteoporosis, ulcers, spinal troubles, joint degeneration and such can be given medical aid (or at least stuff to reduce pain, depending) and we're still seeing specialists to deal with these things. If there is serious discomfort, if there is the slightest chance it is not psychosomatic, we will look into it.

I'm glad you're finding help. Are your doctor's supportive? Some of our doctor's have just been "psychosomatic psychosomatic" until they find a physical cause and then they go "you have x y z" with not so much an apology or a second thought to how they have behaved.

It's extremely annoying dealing with all these constant reminders of abuse in the body itself. It's like living in a scar that's simultaneously a reflection of the past.

I'm sorry you're living like that.
I have an image saved that I love. On it is a girl and the text
"Just left with scars to remind me where the wounds are".
I try to think of it as such. It's not always easy, but I let it be a reminder that my family hurt me - I did not hurt myself and as such this is not my fault. It feels like placing the blame where it should be. Of course, most of the time I am not able to feel as confident as that.

You have made so much progress and you really are inspiring, my friends.

Thank you You are definitely an inspiration as well. I am thankful you are our friends

Oh shiiiit I probably should have put a trigger warning on my earlier post. herp derp. I'll edit that in after i reply here! Sorry about that.

We're still on the learning curve. Some of us learned faster than others; as a whole we are still figuring it out on a daily basis, and some of us haven't learned much of anything about managing self-care/interaction types of things. for us there's a correlation between the amount of trauma exposure and the time it takes to learn these things. The feral kinder-kin will never hold a fork or a spoon or shower (Rolling through the mud is clean enough for the wild ones of my Ell's woods, and of course they prefer to eat with their hands. ;)) and these things are so off-base from their world view that they don't understand the importance. even when one of us has "mastered" something there are days where that is totally gone. it's like after long enough we learn the function of something but the knowledge isn't engrained enough to always be accessible. It's kinda like memorizing facts. Sometimes you recall them and why they are significant and other times you can't do that even if you tried.

The difference is really hard to tell especially with everyone's pain tolerance/aversion/immunity being different depending on who is front. Linn is our neutral party member. If she's out and the pain is OMG Can't Handle This: time for an immediate doctor visit. or if pain lingers in the same area for a span of noticeable time, same thing. For whatever reason Linn can't access body memories. she's our most grounded person, and she's the most in tune with the body in the present. still...there have been an uncountable number of doctor visits for things that were really the past playing out in the present. so we're not experts. it also seems the Experts aren't really experts all the time either. It's Hide and Seek: Medical Edition most of the time. as for risks, i'm at a loss, we're in the same dilemma. There are 3 potential surgeries in the future that docs recommend, all risky. If it works, quality of life improves. If it fails...the end is near. That sort of thing. as a system there are too many mixed feelings about it, so it's a stalemate for now.

We've had some excellent luck with doctors. Also some horrible luck. When we're positive it's not just echo-pain, and the docs ramble on about it being body memories, either 1) I just turn into a mouthy bitch - i don't really recommend that but it does get answers usually, however expect passive aggressive interactions from doctors, or 2) seek opinions elsewhere. IMO some docs see certain past trauma as a blanket explanation and don't look further into things. If it seems objectivity is compromised we get other opinions. i'm sorry you've had unsupportive and stubborn doctors. For a helping profession many are not so helpful!

That is a beautiful quotation. Thank you for sharing it with me.

I wish you all did not have to go through these ordeals. You deserve the very best. I hope your answers will come and your pain will be less.
Seeya, with love, cleo
oh and Linn said something up there somewhere too

So I am not in this situation as far as I know - disclaimer. So I don't feel like I can answer all of the questions posed.

I concur with AlteredArt. This is totally unfair to y'all to have to keep dealing with this over and over and over again. It is never over, is it?

But in general, to make an informed decision, I sort of go through a list:
1) What is the problem?
2) What are our options to fix it? That is, how COULD we address it?
3) What are the possible risks and payoffs to all of these options? How likely are they? Weighting the risks and payoffs.
4) What does everyone think?
5) And then making the decision based on that, knowing that we can revisit if we want to.
And like Cleo said, prioritizing the problems.
Only y'all can decide when is enough. But seriously, I do think there is a point of 'enough' - modern medicine can only go so far, some stuff is too risky, etc.

(As a side note, psychosomatic does not mean non-existent or not deserving of treatment if you ask me. It might to *censored* people, but those people are *censored*. The mind can have some seriously powerful effects on your body (research e.g., effects of chronic stress on the body, effects of depression on pain, etc.). But by the same token, it can exert powerful positive effects on the body (though I am less clear on this part). So even if stuff is "psychosomatic", I can't imagine that there is not SOME way to help it, even if that is, like, therapy or something. Seriously, if it helps with huge amounts of pain, I don't think I would knock anything, even *shudders* acupuncture.)

As far as still feeling the effects of abuse goes, I think I judge myself far more harshly than anybody else does. Like, I anticipate all the horrible things people might say, whether anyone has said them or not, and then think them about myself. If someone else says it, I take that as evidence for it being true. The favourite is, "I should be OVER it already."

But then I think of something someone said here, which is that everyone else has got problems, and at least I'm dealing with it instead of denying it. 'Cause if I was denying it, I would probably be taking it out on other people somehow, even if just through my own suffering.

for us there's a correlation between the amount of trauma exposure and the time it takes to learn these things.

Definitely true for us, too.

even when one of us has "mastered" something there are days where that is totally gone. it's like after long enough we learn the function of something but the knowledge isn't engrained enough to always be accessible. It's kinda like memorizing facts. Sometimes you recall them and why they are significant and other times you can't do that even if you tried.

Very much so. Remembering how to use a towel tends to elude us even years after we first started learning. Some have not learned at all yet. It takes time.

Linn is our neutral party member. If she's out and the pain is OMG Can't Handle This: time for an immediate doctor visit. or if pain lingers in the same area for a span of noticeable time, same thing.

We usually go the route of "If Nin is out and she's in pain it's time to deal with it right now" because she usually don't mind pain at all. If she feels it and is bothered by it, something's up. That seems very sensible what you do/think here.

It's Hide and Seek: Medical Edition most of the time. [...]
We've had some excellent luck with doctors. Also some horrible luck. When we're positive it's not just echo-pain, and the docs ramble on about it being body memories, either 1) I just turn into a mouthy bitch - i don't really recommend that but it does get answers usually, however expect passive aggressive interactions from doctors, or 2) seek opinions elsewhere. IMO some docs see certain past trauma as a blanket explanation and don't look further into things. If it seems objectivity is compromised we get other opinions.

Yes, that's often how it's been for us too. Thank you for the tips, we really appreciate it.

as for risks, i'm at a loss, we're in the same dilemma. There are 3 potential surgeries in the future that docs recommend, all risky. If it works, quality of life improves. If it fails...the end is near. That sort of thing. as a system there are too many mixed feelings about it, so it's a stalemate for now.

I'm sorry you're going through that, I wish it wasn't so, I really do. (safe hugs) if wanted.

For a helping profession many are not so helpful!

Can't begin to count how many times that's been uttered here Thankfully you meet someone helpful here and there

Thank you very much.
Safe hugs if wanted,
Us