Did I fall in love with an alter?

Thank you tribeofone and Una+

I have wondered about the trigger warning situation. When I first posted I was so naive to the dynamics of multiplicity. I feel I will try to change the topic to include that. I can say I am no longer naive, but certainly my knowledge is in its infancy.

I am so grateful to you both for your dialogue. I have read many other's stories but do not comment because I don't feel it's my place, not yet at least.

tribeofone, you said something that fits for me. If he were a singleton, would I put up with the conflict. That thought prompted me to search inside for my most authentic self and I did respond to one of his communications in the manner I would had he been a singleton- I became angry. And I have a right to be angry. We all have a right to our feelings...right? I would like to share what happened before I read our response and after.. Here's how it went before:

Last night I texted him and said "I miss my friend very much".-- It was authentic. At that point I was very much concentrating on treating him as a whole person- not Ryan and the alters. I think I had mentioned that the new host attempted to reach out to me, stating I was his "best friend" and I essentially rejected it. Well, I began to feel he was somewhat present with the new host and I also decided to take in the idea that they are all one. I know I understood this in theory, but not emotionally. This new host wanted to be my friend...so I said what was real to me...I missed my friend.

His response was "I miss him too...I am sorry ". To which I responded "I meant u". And to my utter shock he said "I did to " What??? I basically told him I was referring to the new host as I realized Ryan and him were a package deal. And he basically responded with something like "see I am goofy I didn't even know what you meant." Then he said "I miss you too". OK... so I asked him the next day if he really missed Ryan at the wheel. He said "I just thought you were happier when Ryan was in front and I didn't want you to be sad." To which I responded, "well if I would agree not to be with him anymore, would he be able to come back". The host said "I don't think he can anymore". I then went on to ask why he needed to leave and the host said a lot of reasons but it wasn't because of you.

Then Ryan apparently popped in and said "I just woke up to talk to you but I'm tired and going to take a nap." Thats all I got. So I spoke with the host and basically said will be likely to return if I leave. He responded probably not. I of course needed to ask if he knew about the others and if Ryan were the core and longest host or another alter. He said with 100 percent he is the core and that he did fall in love with me while he was married and that remembering the abuse along with the hardships in his marriage caused him to find a way to be somewhat happy which resulted in the creation of the new host.

I asked if it were a hostile take over or if Ryan agreed. The host told me "yes, I fought and he fought and it was back and forth and I can't go back right now to Ryan, its too dangerous, there was the biggest struggle I and he ever went through and it was all for you..all for you..that's why everyone, even me feels for you." He went on to say Ryan has fought others and he was basically tired and the host took advantage. I asked why he felt the need to take over against Ryan's wishes to which he responded, "I feel I am best for him now because if I don't stay forward it may be worse and more terrible."

So I just went right ahead and expressed all of my feelings. I addressed the host and anyone else who wanted to listen. Stating how difficult it has been to fall in love with a man and then come to know there was a committee of people making decisions that I had no idea even existed. It feels good. It feels really good. I resonated with the idea of him playing out his conflicts through parts of him as well as the idea of potentially being a cake eater. He has been responding.

We are currently in communication and it's helpful and interesting. I am addressing everyone. I feel my feelings are being heard. Validated? who knows... but heard finally... yes. One very interesting thing is that both Ryan and the host responded to one of my communications. Wow... they had no idea each other responded and it was in seconds of each other.

Thanks for the support. I am hearing that his is potentially helpful to you as well so I will continue to right.

candidly wrote:I became angry. And I have a right to be angry. We all have a right to our feelings...right?

Yes, absolutely.

candidly wrote:So I just went right ahead and expressed all of my feelings. I addressed the host and anyone else who wanted to listen. Stating how difficult it has been to fall in love with a man and then come to know there was a committee of people making decisions that I had no idea even existed. It feels good. It feels really good.

It probably feels really good to him too. To all of him. You gave his parts tremendous validation. For a multiple, there is perhaps nothing we fear more and need more, than to have another person who loves us recognize us for what we are, accept us, and even speak openly about our reality. This helps us put down the burden of toxic shame that we carry. Toxic shame that was never ours, that was put on us when we were innocent little children.

Good for you. Carry on.

Hi Candidly,

saw your post in the other thread too - good you're standing up for yourself! For me at least, it is very tempting to think of a system as a "poor, abused person" and take any amount of crap from them because "it's not their fault". On myself, I tend to be a lot harsher, even though I AM part of a system myself. I don't think anyone is doing a multiple a favour by treating them like an idiot or a patient.

To me this all sounds like Ryan has done the "man-thing" (sorry men, I am in a feminist mood today ) and dug himself into a hole inside and left his PA to deal with his issues. I feel a bit sorry for the new host who sounds like he has no idea what is going on but is doing his best (bit of host-to-host solidarity here).

Your posts made me think of something I read recently in a book about DID (Multiple Selves, Multiple Voices by Phil Mollon). They did an experiment with mice

*TW animal cruelty*

Basically, they traumatised the mice by keeping them in a cage where they were repeatedly electrocuted. When they finally let them out, the mice went everywhere, except back into the cage where they were traumatised. UNTIL they stressed the mice severely - upon which they ran straight back into the trauma cage.

*TW end*

What they made of that was: a traumatised organism under stress returns to that which is familiar, even and especially if that familiar thing is trauma.

Since practically all Ryan's alters have told you his wife is abusive, is it possible that this happened? Perhaps he got stressed by "morals" or by starting to become aware of the DID and decided to return to the abusive marriage instead of running for it (regardless of your relationship, if the whole system agrees the wife is an abuser they should not be there)?

Btw, no worries about the trigger warnings, this is a very special situation that is probably not generally a trigger - but who knows, there is a bit of an epidemic of wayward multiple men going on here lately

Yes, terrified people do tend to seek safety in the familiar, even if the familiar is not safe. That is the heart of the saying better the devil you know (than the devil you don't).

Complex PTSD is "next door" to the major dissociative disorders, and I wonder if it isn't close enough that someone with C-PTSD might not activate a multiple the same way that another multiple would.

For an undiagnosed, untreated host who is not even aware of being the host of a DID system, close encounters with a highly activating person can set off a massive DID crisis. That was my situation 2 years ago, and for a while there I thought I was coming completely unglued.

Your last paragraph is exactly my situation, Una. I know you know that. And I have C-PTSD, as mentioned, and definitely think my shifting ego states, when triggered, drew other parts of my guy out. Don't want to hijack this thread though, so will go back to posting on my other one...

Moon

Hello everyone, ***TW Throughout***

I thought I would give an update or conclusion in a way to what has transpired over the last week. I ended up disliking the way the new host was taking about Ryan. He would say things like "I don't think I am going to let him win this fight." etc. It just felt like a dictatorship and like a bully.

one evening I just wrote back one word "pissed". He responded saying he knew I was angry and I usually write more etc. I basically told him I had had enough and that I was sick of falling in line or being expected to fall in line with everything decided because it was "best for Ryan". I told him I was an equal part of the relationship and their were consequences on me. I also told him that I felt it was rude that he was "taking over" in a fight and that they all need to learn to talk to one another and come up with ways to peacefully exist. I also got mad during the conversation because his responses were so "unfeeling" and I felt totally minimized my experience.

All of the sudden I felt intense pain wash over me and intense hate. I could barely breath and I was sobbing uncontrollably. I told him I needed help and I was emotionally dying because I was feeling all of Ryan's feelings and I just needed it to stop. I needed to talk to someone and I needed to end the affair.

The host seemed to become frantic and said "I will help you what do you need". "let me help you I don't want anyone sad". Then he said "I will let Ryan win for you for this moment I" Then Ryan called. I didn't answer. I didn't know who was calling and I was in no place to talk. I was essentially out of control.

Ryan apparently began texting me and saying "you must not tell anyone about us we need our moments...I am fighting for you fight for me." I said I wouldn't say it was him but I needed help and I needed reality and needed all of my feelings of rage and pain to end.

I passed out in pain and woke up to texts from Ryan. The last of which was "I have an extreme headache". I responded saying I can't do this anymore. My response was a few hours later and when I recieved a response back it appeared to be from the new host and Ryan and the protector.

I told him I was exhausted and he was exhausted and this had to end. He said he knows he must integrate and he knows that the host was wrong. He felt the host thought the only way to be in the world was to learn how to not have his wife affect him and start over but that now Ryan realized that he must feel all of his feelings and that is the only way to work.

then he told me of the abuse he remembered. He said "now I remember everything." And I must learn how to be in the world with all of my feelings. I must do this. He asked if I wanted to say goodbye and I said "no this isn't goodbye this is anything but, I have known all of you seperately and I can know all of you together as one." But he said... "no, I need to do this without you." "I need to know if I can integrate and I feel I figured it out but it needs to be on my own." "I need to know if my marriage can work or if I need to leave and this has nothing to do with you or loving you...I have always loved you and I will always love you...you are the love of my life and I need to do this so I can be consistent...not for her...for you." "I need to be able to have bad in my life and still remain positive for you"

I said "ok goodbye".

He said a few more things but the interesting thing was he said something that the protector used to say and he said "I am saying that because you thought it was cute." It was Ryan saying what the protector had said. I thought, OK maybe they integrated who knows.

I received a message from him yesterday and he thanked me for the last 24 hours of dealing with life alone. He said he has felt his feelings and felt it was amazing to feel them. He said I am happy and you are happy.

I just responded "we are awesome". Nothing long, nothing tellling him about him or what he has done or who he should be etc. I also wrote, we will see who you are and who I am and if we find a connection then we do...why would we ever force something that is as difficult as the relationship we have (married) if it wasn't positive for each other.

I have distanced. I have come to believe that his conflict is likely that he wants to be in love with his wife. He doesn't want to be in love with someone he can't have. Who would blame him? So I believe he will be experiencing his life without me so intertwined in it. If he comes to see that he truly is not in love with his wife and that he becomes aware of that without me in his life, then he may choose loving me as a whole integration of parts. I will be open to experiencing this new integration of sorts and come to see if I still feel in love.

I tried to condense a tremendous amount of information. I have no idea if what he is saying is actually possible. I mean my understanding is that integration takes years and therapeutic work. But... I am no longer analyzing it...I am no longer having a steak in what happens. He is to be the one to work out his issues and conflicts and if I am to have a part in his life, I believe it will happen without the intense emotional uproar.

We shall see...

-- Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:00 pm --

Oh I forgot to mention...

tribeofone...you hit the nail on the head...I did "practically move into their system"! Unknowingly and definitely without desire. Does anyone have any advice on how "not to feel" the split off emotions of others? I want to be able to do so without distancing so much. I have come to believe myself an empath. And I do experience feeling states that others do not want to feel.

Hm!

There are some reports in the psychotherapy literature, by therapists and DID clients alike, of large scale fusions and spontaneous fusions. Integration is more than fusion, however; even if there is a full fusion, post-fusion integration work can take years. Also, fusions do not always hold up under pressure; the person may come apart again. The wait-and-see interval recommended by Dr Richard Kluft is 3 months.

This "feeling another person's split-off feelings" sounds like nonsense but is real. It can happen between any two people and it happens very, very often between clients and therapists. Therapists tend to be empathetically aware, and clients tend to be loaded with split-off feelings.

The more split-off (dissociated) the other person's feelings are, the more powerful they can be for you to experience. Rather than not experience them, the trick is to not be overwhelmed by experiencing them. For preventing overwhelm, any and all grounding and shielding skills are useful. For developing these skills one of my therapists especially liked some rather obscure books by John Omaha.

Does anyone have any advice on how "not to feel" the split off emotions of others? I want to be able to do so without distancing so much. I have come to believe myself an empath. And I do experience feeling states that others do not want to feel.

I used to consider myself an empath, but it turned out it wasn't "other people's emotions", it was my alter's (well, that's kind of other people). Just sayin'...

There are some reports in the psychotherapy literature, by therapists and DID clients alike, of large scale fusions and spontaneous fusions. Integration is more than fusion, however; even if there is a full fusion, post-fusion integration work can take years. Also, fusions do not always hold up under pressure; the person may come apart again. The wait-and-see interval recommended by Dr Richard Kluft is 3 months.

Yeah, we're experiencing this at the moment with 3 alters, which is why I don't know what colour to post in any more... It's weird, but probably progress..

Thanks for all the thoughts . Tribeofone you suggested perhaps I am unaware of some kind of multiplicity in myself. I hesitate to say this because I don't want to sound disrespectful but there have been times in this experience where I have wished that to be the case. My past is not without trauma of sorts but it is that of a different kind. I grew up hyperaware of my environment. My father Is narcissistic and he was incredibly emotionally abusive to my mother. However the abuse was through nonverbal interactions. I unfortunately picked up a keen awareness of everyone's emotional state without words being said.

I have about five years of therapy under my belt and if it weren't for that I would still hold a tremendous amount of anger towards my father. He was emotionally unavailable and tremendously inconsistent. He was extremely judgmental and did not need to say a word. I was the scapegoat and I took on the role of the identified problem In an attempt to highlight the craziness of the home.

When I met Ryan he pursued me. I actually had no interest in him. But overtime he was so emotionally explicit and supremely verbal that I fell in like and eventually in love. After I had fallen he became emotionally inconsistent and often times unavailable and it was sporadic.

In fact I was reliving the experience of an emotionally unavailable man in the same way I had grown up. So yes Ryan does trigger a host of issues for me. But these issues surround acting one way and feeling another and the push and pull of unavailability which triggers my need to be good enough to be loved.

An update on the Ryan front is that he has not contacted me. I am happy to hear that you are experiencing spontaneous integration with three of your alters!

candidly wrote:Tribeofone you suggested perhaps I am unaware of some kind of multiplicity in myself.

It was I not Ruby @tribeofone who implied by the context of my remark that you have C-PTSD. That was my mistake. I confused you with a poster in another thread. I am sorry about that!

candidly wrote:When I met Ryan he pursued me. I actually had no interest in him. But overtime he was so emotionally explicit and supremely verbal that I fell in like and eventually in love. After I had fallen he became emotionally inconsistent and often times unavailable and it was sporadic.

Yes, this is typical. We alters tend to come on very strong and fast, and to be extremely open and vulnerable. Often that is a very appealing quality, because it seems to promise an exceptionally deep intimacy. Our individual alters' feelings seem very simple and uncomplicated, because they are. But that simplicity is an artifact of our personality being so compartmentalized. Over time as you interact with a multiple you begin to encounter other parts of the system and see that your relationship is not at all simple and uncomplicated because in fact you are in relationship with a very complicated and conflicted person who has confusing transient deficits of awareness about self and others.