Turmoil and Conflict (mainly relationship issues)...

TheManyFacesOfMe wrote:I've never dealt with my alters doing this, other than them telling me not to talk to a friend that had been abusive towards me.

We didn't used to speak out like this, especially not about relationship stuff (well, most of us never have for the most part anyway), and not to this extent, but we're tired and done with hiding and doing everything the host wants and such.

~L.C.

Evanescent wrote:Yeah that's very true. I'm glad you're still open to the idea of a relationship, sometimes it's easy to get discouraged about them. I think you're right for waiting for a time when you're all more equipped to handle it. Focusing on yourselves and everyone's needs first is always important.

Thank you.

Evanescent wrote:I'm glad to hear it This definitely has to be my favorite part about DID, there's always support when it's needed!

This is true (well, for the most part there is, there's always those few exceptions that can happen).


~L.C.

AliasForAFew wrote:Good luck with this. I don't have any advice for you all, but that's gatta be some tough $#%^. I mean. I know we're going to have to go through something like this in the future and boy howdy, that's ganna be fun.
Yeah, but good luck, man (men? Women?)
(Jacob)

Thanks.
Hope you don't have to go through something too similar to this. Hope it's better for you or doesn't happen or something.
It's mainly me typing and sh*t, and I'm a girl, but I'm speaking for everyone who wants to be single right now.

~L.C.

AliasForAFew wrote:Whoa, that was weird... Uhm. Yeah, I'm sorry I don't have any advice, it looks like you've already tried anything I would suggest... Would it be alright if you could still have contact with Mike? Still be friends? (Sorry if this has already been suggested, I couldn't/can't read everything right now)
Best of luck
-G

We would definitely still stay in contact and still be friend with Mike. The only thing that would change is that we would not be in a romantic relationship with him. If things do end, we plan to end them on good terms.

~L.C.

AliasForAFew wrote:Is an open relationship an option? Cassandra may be able to stay with Mike and the rest of you could do what you want? Of course, this is all up to you(all) and it looks like a decision has already been reached. Unfortunately, not everyone can be pleased all the time.

- Vernadael Teiryn

P.S, apologies if you have tried to contact us at all today via the cellular device, it has died and not been charged yet.

We have tried variations of an open relationship that are comfortable for Mike, and they aren't working for us. Mike always seems to need to have some sort of guideline he wants met, or requirement, or something, and we just can't agree to that. We want freedom, if we were separate people with our own bodies we would have full freedom, and we don't think that just because we have to share a body we shouldn't have the freedom we deserve. We're tired of being told what we can and cannot do, and we're tired of living by guidelines set up by someone we aren't even in a relationship with ourselves, and one we don't want to be in.

We have not yet reached a final decision, as we have not all discussed this in-depth with Mike yet. We are giving them a (possibly last) "relationship weekend" with those that are in a relationship with him or are in favor of things not changing, and then afterwards we shall discuss this in-depth and come to a final solution.

We know not everyone can be pleased at the same time, but we're tired of always being the ones to make the sacrifices. It's time for Cassandra to make a sacrifice and do what's best for all of us. When 90% of you is not and does not want to be in a relationship, it doesn't make sense to try and continue it. Either we need to have FULL freedoms and NO guidelines/restrictions while those who want to date Mike do so, or we need to have this end. (And again, this is why I said "no relationships for anyone", at least not now, if this relationship does get ended).


(We had not tried to contact you, we have actually pretty much ignored our phone's (and just about everything else's) existence today, but we had definitely thought about contacting you, so thank you for letting us know in case we had indeed tried).


~L.C.

I see. Well, this certainly won't be easy but I wish you and the rest the best of luck.
I am honored that the thought even crossed your minds.
I... am surprised I seem to have run out of words for the moment. We're pretty... busy... This poor body does need more sleep as well.

Again, best of luck,
Vernadael Teiryn

L.C. @ tomboy24 wrote:Mike always seems to need to have some sort of guideline he wants met, or requirement, or something, and we just can't agree to that.

It sounds like Mike is very controlling. Is he co-dependent? Is he trying to control you to make himself comfortable?

This is from the book Safe People by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. You can read it on Google Books.

Many times people will get tired of what they have been putting up with in a relationship, and finally "get some boundaries." Then their first real exercise of boundaries will be to end the relationship. We see this often in marriage. One passive partner will get a stomach full of the other person's character problems and finally say, "Enough!" And then they will file for divorce.

They will often say that this is an exercise in "boundaries," but in reality it is a cop-out. Boundaries in a relationship are not real boundaries unless someone can exercise them in the relationship. To say that you now have boundaries, and then leave, is to not have boundaries at all.

A person with true boundaries would go back in to the relationship and take stands on the individual problems that come up within the day-to-day relationship. This is the true test of boundaries, to be in the relationship and not be controlled or abused anymore.

It sounds like Mike is very controlling. Is he co-dependent? Is he trying to control you to make himself comfortable?

hm, I'm not sure if co-dependency is a requirement to be unhappy with the idea of an open relationship. I'm multiple and I sure as ###$ can't do it (for specific internal reasons), even though I fully understand the implications with more than one person involved. If he's a singleton, it must be even harder.

I'm not taking Mike's side here, or anyone else's. I just know how heartbreaking these things can be (am having similar issues, but won't post them in this thread). I hope you guys can figure out a solution that involves minimum damage to everyone.

Ruby

hm, I'm not sure if co-dependency is a requirement to be unhappy with the idea of an open relationship.

I'm not taking Mike's side here, or anyone else's.

I very much agree. In our situation our SO doesn't mind if any alter she is not in a relationship with finds someone else - but we are very uncomfortable with this thought. I think some multiples and comfortable with an open relationship and some are not, just like some singletons are comfortable and some are not. There are many reasons for not being comfortable, co-dependency being just one of them. That's not to say that's not his reason, because there is no way for us to have any idea of that.

I'm thinking of you all. I hope you come to a decision that works for you all. Things like this can be so difficult. Wishing you the very best of luck

I very much agree. In our situation our SO doesn't mind if any alter she is not in a relationship with finds someone else - but we are very uncomfortable with this thought.

We would be too, if that was an issue at the moment. Most of the time we have no idea who's out in the first place, and no one can guarantee that what they start they will personally see through to the end. So there would inevitably be some mixing no matter who we are with, and that can only mean trouble.

So unless we find a bombproof way of making sure who is out stays out and only them, the only option is to find someone we can all agree on (or at least not disagree). So not likely this century...

So unless we find a bombproof way of making sure who is out stays out and only them, the only option is to find someone we can all agree on (or at least not disagree). So not likely this century...

That is in part our thinking too. We found it so I believe you can too Good luck

hey, janice here. dont get me wrong, ok, i can hear your call out for freedom. Jen has been shouting the same thing lately - how shes not really allowed to meet people because Jess has an SO. that SO has two rules - if Jen finds someone, then before doing anything, the person has to know about the DID and know and accept the difference between her and Jess (which drastically limits her as it is), and even then, she is still not allowed to have sex. the fact that Jess's SO is not even within Jen's sexual preference doesnt help. and Jess was the one to choose the career path, and the lifestyle, and most everything. trust me, i know your pain; i see it with Jen fairly regularly.

but there are some things you need to think about before doing this. everyone does and mite want to consider a re-vote if they havent. not to say you havent - like already said, you all seem to have thought about this quite a lot. but just in case... first, who else do you have? you need someone there for you on the outside that all of you can trust and who will support you - emotionally at least. it really is invaluable. do you have someone else to take that place? will Mike stick around and put as much into helping you guys if you are not in a relationship? hes not a bad guy if he doesnt you know. he can afford to put more into it because you all are his home life, and if he and Cassandra were thinking about marriage, it looks like he intended to keep it that way. but if he finds someone else, then they will be his home life and his responsibility too. not just you all. consider what you are losing by doing this. if there were someone else in the picture, i could see this argument. but as it is, it just screams 'bad idea' to me. if he finds someone else, will you all still have the support you need?

and i can see why Mike may not like the idea of a completely open relationship with some of you while he is limited. but i find it hard to believe that you cant reach a compromise. what would Mike and Cassandra think of making the relationship more open? is there any way you could go with some kind of agreement where you could see other people on the conditions that Mike was considered the 'official'/permanent partner and had a general idea (if he wants to know) where you will be? i know some singletons have open relationships like that. i mean, its fair to you to get to have full freedom, since you didnt choose him, but its also fair to him to get some kind of benefit and security for all the effort he puts in, you know? he does care, and i know that he wont want to lose you (as a whole) in the future just because he let you have some freedom. or what other problems does he have with it? you dont have to answer here if you dont want to - its really none of my business anyway. and being fairly young myself, there is probably a lot going into it that i just cant completely understand. but Mike seems to be a huge help to the system as a whole and i dont want you all to lose that. i just want you to think about what YOU are giving up as well, not just what your gaining and Cassandra is giving up. as a system, you seem to get a lot from him that you may not get once it ends. just dont do something that will hurt you later.

AliasForAFew wrote:I see. Well, this certainly won't be easy but I wish you and the rest the best of luck.
I am honored that the thought even crossed your minds.
I... am surprised I seem to have run out of words for the moment. We're pretty... busy... This poor body does need more sleep as well.

Again, best of luck,
Vernadael Teiryn

thank you.

it's ok. i understand busy. and sleep is really important to be able to think clearly and find words to say and stuff. i hope you get more sleep soon.


- cassie (age ?)

Una+ wrote:It sounds like Mike is very controlling. Is he co-dependent? Is he trying to control you to make himself comfortable?

i don't think mikey's controlling, or co-dependent. i think he is a little bit, but nor more than we are/can be, and we're not like, clingy with each other or can't survive without each other or anything.

i think he's uncomfortable with just the idea in general. i don't think he's trying to control us but i think it's just how he feels about things in general that the others don't tend to agree with. (like if we did have a open relationship or whatever mikey doesn't want anyone doing anything with people we've done stuff with in the past, especially not people a couple of us have cheated on him with, but the others say it's full freedom or nothing, they don't want to be told what to do in any way anymore).

Una+ wrote:This is from the book Safe People by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. You can read it on Google Books.

Many times people will get tired of what they have been putting up with in a relationship, and finally "get some boundaries." Then their first real exercise of boundaries will be to end the relationship. We see this often in marriage. One passive partner will get a stomach full of the other person's character problems and finally say, "Enough!" And then they will file for divorce.

They will often say that this is an exercise in "boundaries," but in reality it is a cop-out. Boundaries in a relationship are not real boundaries unless someone can exercise them in the relationship. To say that you now have boundaries, and then leave, is to not have boundaries at all.

A person with true boundaries would go back in to the relationship and take stands on the individual problems that come up within the day-to-day relationship. This is the true test of boundaries, to be in the relationship and not be controlled or abused anymore.

i think i understand most of this, and thanks, and i think i'll show this quote to mikey. but i think this is mainly between the differences of what we see as being ok and what we're comfortable with and what we want (well what the others want) compared to what he sees as ok and what he's comfortable with and what he wants, or would like, rather, i guess.


- cassie (age ?)

tribeofone wrote:

It sounds like Mike is very controlling. Is he co-dependent? Is he trying to control you to make himself comfortable?

hm, I'm not sure if co-dependency is a requirement to be unhappy with the idea of an open relationship. I'm multiple and I sure as ###$ can't do it (for specific internal reasons), even though I fully understand the implications with more than one person involved. If he's a singleton, it must be even harder.

I'm not taking Mike's side here, or anyone else's. I just know how heartbreaking these things can be (am having similar issues, but won't post them in this thread). I hope you guys can figure out a solution that involves minimum damage to everyone.

Ruby

yeah i think it's just the idea of stuff that he's not comfortable with and so he's wanting guidelines but the others don't agree with them and don't want them, and they see it as if they had separate bodies, they'd have full freedoms, and they don't think that just because they're stuck in the same body that they should have their freedoms limited, at least not in this sense, especially since there's no marriage involved yet or anything.

thank you. i hope you can figure your issues out too and that you feel better soon.


- cassie (age ?)

lifelongthing wrote:

hm, I'm not sure if co-dependency is a requirement to be unhappy with the idea of an open relationship.

I'm not taking Mike's side here, or anyone else's.

I very much agree. In our situation our SO doesn't mind if any alter she is not in a relationship with finds someone else - but we are very uncomfortable with this thought. I think some multiples and comfortable with an open relationship and some are not, just like some singletons are comfortable and some are not. There are many reasons for not being comfortable, co-dependency being just one of them. That's not to say that's not his reason, because there is no way for us to have any idea of that.

I'm thinking of you all. I hope you come to a decision that works for you all. Things like this can be so difficult. Wishing you the very best of luck

thank you!

- cassie (age ?)

Tunes14 wrote:hey, janice here. dont get me wrong, ok, i can hear your call out for freedom. Jen has been shouting the same thing lately - how shes not really allowed to meet people because Jess has an SO. that SO has two rules - if Jen finds someone, then before doing anything, the person has to know about the DID and know and accept the difference between her and Jess (which drastically limits her as it is), and even then, she is still not allowed to have sex. the fact that Jess's SO is not even within Jen's sexual preference doesnt help. and Jess was the one to choose the career path, and the lifestyle, and most everything. trust me, i know your pain; i see it with Jen fairly regularly.

that's one problem the others don't have. mikey doesn't care what others like l.c. who's a lesbian and dallas who's a straight guy do with girls, so they have full freedoms except for serious relationships all the time, but it's the others who like guys that don't like mikey that way that are really feeling suffocated.. (l.c. and luna are feeling that way too only because they're tired of mikey still caring about the contact they have with certain people because of stuff that happened between them but luna and l.c. say "it happened to us, if we move on, you should too, if we don't care about it, you shouldn't either").

Tunes14 wrote:but there are some things you need to think about before doing this. everyone does and mite want to consider a re-vote if they havent. not to say you havent - like already said, you all seem to have thought about this quite a lot. but just in case... first, who else do you have? you need someone there for you on the outside that all of you can trust and who will support you - emotionally at least. it really is invaluable. do you have someone else to take that place?

um, well no one in the sense of a serious relationship or anything, and i don't think anyone wants another actual relationship anyway.. but i know kyra has gates, the friend from 8th grade, and he knows about us and doesn't mind any of us, but he definitely can't be there all the time. um, and then i don't really know... we all have erik, but he's just a friend only, but he can be there for us whenever and he's really nice and knows most of us. but otherwise i think it's mainly just the fact that they want to not have to worry about anything, not hafta worry about any boundaries or watch what they do or say or anything like that. they're tired of having to act like they're taken when they're not, basically.

Tunes14 wrote:will Mike stick around and put as much into helping you guys if you are not in a relationship? hes not a bad guy if he doesnt you know. he can afford to put more into it because you all are his home life, and if he and Cassandra were thinking about marriage, it looks like he intended to keep it that way. but if he finds someone else, then they will be his home life and his responsibility too. not just you all.

yeah, mikey said he'd stick around. and i mean we don't have anywhere to go either so we'd still be living with him until we found a job. because we can live at our aunt's until we find our own place but we need income first. (the others said they know it'd be weird to like, act on their freedoms or whatever while they were still living with mikey so they said they wouldn't, but they just want to have full freedom anyway, even if they can't "use it" yet or whatever).

we know that if he finds someone else that would happen.... i would think that if he really loved us he could wait since we'd be waiting for him and not having another relationship or anything... especially with what kat, valera, and now kyra have given/been giving up for him...

Tunes14 wrote:consider what you are losing by doing this. if there were someone else in the picture, i could see this argument. but as it is, it just screams 'bad idea' to me. if he finds someone else, will you all still have the support you need?

we have been... well, the others have been.

we don't want to end it and move on. they just don't want to be in a relationship at all period anymore. they want to all be free for a time before marriage is thought about seriously or planned for or anything like that. so we wouldn't be looking for someone else and i would hope that would be enough for mikey to not look for someone else either...

Tunes14 wrote:and i can see why Mike may not like the idea of a completely open relationship with some of you while he is limited. but i find it hard to believe that you cant reach a compromise. what would Mike and Cassandra think of making the relationship more open?

um, we've tried reaching compromises. we've tried breaks, we've tried different rules, different boundaries, different deals, different levels of open-ness or whatever, we've tried a lot.

they've tried making it more open. they don't have much of a problem with it except mike wants certain boundaries like not getting involved with people that a couple of the others have cheated on him with and the others say no, give us the full freedoms we'd have if we were living on our own (since if we had our own place he wouldn't know about everything that happened in our life anyway and he wouldn't have as much of a say it in and stuff like that).

Tunes14 wrote:is there any way you could go with some kind of agreement where you could see other people on the conditions that Mike was considered the 'official'/permanent partner and had a general idea (if he wants to know) where you will be?

we've tried. mikey wants guidelines, the others don't want anything. they want full freedom. they're tired of being told what they can and can't do or what they should or shouldn't do in any way, shape, or form.

Tunes14 wrote:i know some singletons have open relationships like that. i mean, its fair to you to get to have full freedom, since you didnt choose him, but its also fair to him to get some kind of benefit and security for all the effort he puts in, you know? he does care, and i know that he wont want to lose you (as a whole) in the future just because he let you have some freedom.

the others don't see it that way. they see themselves as they wouldn't be here if not for cassandra and doing things for her and giving up stuff for her. they see it as they're stuck here, they don't want to be there, if they had their own bodies they wouldn't be here and probably wouldn't even know mikey, and so they don't see why they should have to owe him anything since they never chose to be with him or even be around him or anything like that. they see themselves as being trapped and nothing more. (which is kinda true i guess in a way...)

Tunes14 wrote:or what other problems does he have with it? you dont have to answer here if you dont want to - its really none of my business anyway. and being fairly young myself, there is probably a lot going into it that i just cant completely understand. but Mike seems to be a huge help to the system as a whole and i dont want you all to lose that.

well the first guidelines they talked about the first time they made the relationship more open was that any and all friends, his and her's, were off limits, and people that others had been involved with in the past were off limits (unless they hadn't been a problem for their relationship). then he went to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy of basically meaning "you can do whatever, and i won't ask and don't want to know, but if i do ask, i expect an honest answer". and then he tried to go to a "only people that others have cheated on me with in the past are off limits" but by then the others were tired of any and all guidelines or rules, and they're not giving in to anything, and won't compromise at all. they want full freedom or they walk and make the body walk with them.

we don't want to lose it either. the others don't deep down, or at least, they don't want us to lose it/him. least not fully. they just want to have freedom and space.

Tunes14 wrote:i just want you to think about what YOU are giving up as well, not just what your gaining and Cassandra is giving up. as a system, you seem to get a lot from him that you may not get once it ends. just dont do something that will hurt you later.

[/quote]
we, well the others, have been... that's why it's still being thought about and it think at times discussed inside somewhere (wherever they are...).


- cassie (age ?)

I want to preface this by saying that I don't mean this as provocatory at all. I write without emoticons and I am not entirely fluent in this language and as such my writings tend to sound harsh and/or stifled. I apologize for this.

It's important to remember, as you all say so often on here too, that you are the same person. While it may not feel like it, you are. That doesn't mean if 1 person is in a relationship, everyone is. But it does mean that "if I had my own body" gets a bit complicated. Because you are in the same body, and you are the same person - even if that is unfair and doesn't feel accurate. This is difficult though.

The only other thing I'd like to say is that I don't think neither you nor Mikey are asking for anything that isn't fair. You are both asking to be understood and met where you are and are honest about how you feel. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, feelings and boundaries. If Mikey's boundaries and your's don't match, that has to be addressed - like you are doing - and then come to a resolution - which I assume you will at one point. I commend you for trying and continuing to work on your relationship and yourselves.

We are thinking of you. Hoping for the very best for you all - whatever that may be.