Discussion about therapy (trig. warn. integration)

Greetings everyone, I'm not the originator of the post, but I thought some explanation was in order. We prefer to do these kinds of discussions on this forum because if we just write the stuff in a document, the host will sometimes but not always delete it without reading; it tends to happen more when he's in a denial fit.

Feel free to communicate some options and opinions. Let's also try (both ourselves and others) to stay polite in the upcoming posts; the first one is kind of a mess.


--- Debate (triggering, and not very polite)


DAMN PSYCHOLOGIST !!!!!1!! ASSHOLE !!! #####& !!!!

THERE'S ALREADY THE MORON HOST THAT DOESN'T ACKNOWLEDGE US A LOT, AND THIS STUPID "PROFESSIONAL" STARTS TELLING HIM #######4 LIKE WE'RE "ONLY" MODES ON A KNOB BUT THE ONE CHANGING THE RADIO STATION IS NOT ALWAYS HIM ?!?!!?!?!? BUT HE STAYS CONCIOUSLY AWARE ALL THE TIME?!

###$ OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ###$ OFF YOU IGNORANT RETARD!!!!!! SEE, I TOLD YOU THERAPY SUCKED. YOU TOLD HIM WE WERE SEPARATE AND WHAT DID HE SAY? THAT WE'RE NOT REAL1111111111Well, actually, I think he meant that while we do each have our particularities and experience reality differently and separately, we have origins in common according to the theory of the progressive integration of - continued after rant just below - the components of personality throughout childhood. But regarding integ- the process suggested by him- we will have to discuss much more about this. Whether you like it or not Lukas, it is an option and one that we will evaluate. Even if the host does not want to, although in his case it's not a question of whether or not we exist, but the fact he is satisfied with his current personality.


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DON'T YOU UTTER THAT WORD 1!!!!! INTEGRATION INTEGRATION INTEGRATION ... DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS YOU IGNORANT ###$ !?!?!?!? IT MEANS IF THAT STUPID SO CALLED THERAPIST GETS HIS WAY, WE'RE GONNA BE DESTROYED. TORN APART. THE RESULT WILL BE OUR NON-EXISTENCE. AND DON'T YOU TRY TO REFUTE ME WITH YOUR "BELOVED" PHILOSOPHY. I WILL STAY AS I AM NOW AND NO ONE WILL MAKE ME GO AWAY AND I WILL DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO DO SO.

--- Debate follow-up

if y DAMN IT!!!!! IF YOU THINK I WILL LET ANYONE IN HERE EVEN TRY TO TRY TO EVALUATE THIS $#%^, YOU ARE WRONG. IT'S NOT (ADDED AFTERWARDS; WHO THE HELL IS REMOVING THE NO'S AND NOT'S DAMN IT) LIKE WE'LL HEAL MUCH ANYWAY HUH? I'M GONNA STOP THAT THERAPY $#%^ AND YOU'RE GONNA SEE WHO'S THE BOSS AROUND HERE. YOU KNOW WHAT IS LIKE INTEGRATION? A BROKEN MIRROR REPAIRED. IN THE END, IT SUCKS MORE THAN THE PIECES THEMSELVES BECAUSE IT'S JUST NOT THE SAME AS AN UNBROKEN MIRROR. AND IT CAN BREAK AGAIN.

Look, it's not gonna happen tomorrow. We're all there for quite a while, in my opinion.YA THINK? HE'S ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT THE END GOAL. EVERYTHING IS ORIENTED TOWARDS THAT END GOAL. END, THE END, AS IN THE END OF US ALL. IF YOU MIX ALL THE COLORS OF PAINT TOGETHER YOU GET BLACK. BLACK IS ALSO THE COLOR EMITTED BY NOTHINGNESS. WE CAN'T DO THIS AND THAT BECAUSE IT MAKES US DISSOCIATE, WE "HAVE" ... NO THE HOST "HAS TO" STAY AWARE AT ALL TIMES SO HE CAN ASSIMILATE US.

Wo, what the hell is going on here ? Calm down guys. That's long-term. Yeah, I'll have difficulties accepting the fact that therapy is long-term, I'm all about perfection and performance, but as some of you may have noticed, I'm trying to get a better support network YEAH, JUST SO WE DON'T INTERRUPT OR CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH YOUR STUDIES, SUPREMACIST PARANOID ASSHOLE Well, you just said something true: I have problems trusting others. Establishing relationships is difficult for me, and it takes a long time. I don't really know you, nor do I know much anyone in here (as in, my system), and that behavior of yours isn't always confidence inspiring for me. However, you (all of you) are there, and if we are to remain functional, we will have to learn to work with each other. And I agree, Lukas, that the psych is putting the long-term goal in too much a prominent place, which could make me stop therapy. Let's go one step at a time, okay ?

... OKAY. AND THAT MANOR IS THE INNER WORLD, WHEN WILL YOU BE ABLE TO REACH IT PROPERLY? WE'RE ALL IN THERE, AND GETTING ANNOYED AT YOUR LACK OF ABILITY TO COME HERE AND ACTUALLY TALK TO US, YOU WEAKLING.

Well, I don't know. The psychologist is insisting for me not to dissociate no matter what, but it seems like to better communicate and reach this "inner world", I'll have to work on getting better at controlled dissociation. And note that I'm doing the best I can to go through this and stay functional. One has to have a job, and for that, one needs to study. As such, I would greatly enjoy and be thankful if it was possible for life not to go too chaotic. And one of the things I suggest for another time is setting up a few rules to that end, all of us.

YOU SAY THAT LIKE YOU INTEND ALL OF US TO PARTICIPATE IN AN EQUAL MANNER, BUT WE'RE NOT BLIND TO YOUR TOTALITARIAN-NESS. IN THE END, ALL YOU WANT IS CONTROL OVER YOURSELF AND OURSELVES. IF YOU DARE THINK I'LL BOW DOWN TO YOUR WORTHLESSNESS, YOU'D BETTER GET READY FOR WAR.

Okay, that's it. I don't think either one of you is up for an actual correct debate. To the host, that's a good effort there, but your actions don't back up your words. To Lukas, putting fire one the situation is not going to help in the long run, or even on the short term.

--- Synthesis of the post and questions (less triggering)

In this (very, very non-linear) post, after having read through it again, I have identified three problems:

- Dissatisfaction with therapy
- Difficulties with communication
- Difficulty for the host to reach the inner world

About the first one, I think that the reason is that our psychologist hasn't provided us with information about alternatives to integration, even though we asked. I also tried to search for pros and cons more sophisticated than "It makes you closer to what medecine considers normal" and "But you may lose abilities learned by other alters" but without much success, although I suck at using computers. Ressources on other medium such as books and documentaries are welcomed as well, even if they will be hard to find around our current place of residence.

The two last problems are somewhat interrelated, I think. Can anyone list a few tips they've had or discovered to help them with communication and facility accessing their inner world ?

And I may miss other issues as well, for I am inexperienced in these matters. If you remark something important/interesting, please do tell us !

I thank you much for your answers, it will be helpful.

lifepuzzle wrote:THERE'S ALREADY THE MORON HOST THAT DOESN'T ACKNOWLEDGE US A LOT, AND THIS STUPID "PROFESSIONAL" STARTS TELLING HIM #######4 LIKE WE'RE "ONLY" MODES ON A KNOB BUT THE ONE CHANGING THE RADIO STATION IS NOT ALWAYS HIM ?!?!!?!?!? BUT HE STAYS CONCIOUSLY AWARE ALL THE TIME?!

I hope this doesn't enflame things but just one thing I noticed:

I think by the therapist saying that the host is consciously aware all the time is a far cry from saying that no one else in the system exists. I am consciously aware all the time. But my alters exist.

A therapist also should not be forcing integration on you. Some therapists who work with DID do think integration is the only way, or at least, the 'best way'. Other therapists are more open minded and think it is possible to live as a multiple and have a great quality of life as long as communication between parts and co-operation is as full as possible. If you feel your therapist is pushing an aim on you that you don't share then this will be a huge sticking point in your therapeutic relationship and definitely needs to be dealt with. Either the therapist allows you all to heal 'your way' or he won't be able to allow you to heal. That's the way I see it anyway.

-B

To add to that: integration won't work unless all relevant parts agree to do it and want to do it. That is, healthy integration. (Forced integration may work for a while but will only make things worse in the end). So, you're not gonna be integrated unless you all agree with it. And, I agree, integration is a long term goal, not something to think about now. Now is the time to stabilize and process stuff.

lifepuzzle wrote:- Difficulties with communication

I don't really have an answer to that (I'm struggling with it too), but I've seen a thread about that (just in case you haven't already seen it):
* Communication between alters *category triggers

lifepuzzle wrote:- Difficulty for the host to reach the inner world

I don't really have an answer to that either, but why is it exactly needed? I've seen here that improved communication and understanding will help reach the inner world. Here is a post about it (in case you haven't already seen):
* Questions regarding Inner Worlds

I hope that helps!

I couldn't read the whole post, I'm fuzzy right now, but I wanted to say three important things:

1) Integration does not equal death. Integration means you will all "meld" into one, like puzzle pieces being put together to make a whole picture, but you will all still be there in a sense, and all of your traits will just make up one whole personality instead of having "sides" of your personality with different traits.


2) Integration is a CHOICE. It is NOT the only way to heal. You can still heal and remain multiple. This is our goal. We strive to become a fully-functional, fully-healed, smoothly-operated system/team. This way we can achieve co-consciousness or the ability to fully memory-share to eliminate memory issues and lost time, and we all heal both individually and as a whole from our trauma, PTSD, anxiety issues, etc.


3) Therapy will help all of you to get better and to make your life better and to heal and be able to function better. The goal of therapy is to HEAL, that doesn't necessarily mean integration. As long as you HEAL, that's the goal, and that's what therapy is supposed to help you do. If you are not ready to discuss integration, or do not want it, perhaps discuss that with your therapist, though let them know that you do indeed what help and wish to heal. At the very least, they should understand that you are not ready to discuss or think about integration and that it can be triggering/unappealing to some alters.


-Cassandra

Hi,

I can understand the anger at your therapist to some degree, and if it's only because he is apparently advocating one possible course of action above all others, and not all in your system agree.

We just had a chat with a therapist and brought up the issue of integration, simply because we cannot really understand what that would look like - many of us view it much the same as your angry colleague above (sorry, cannot address anyone by name). At this stage, we are very obviously at least different "nodes of consciousness" within our brain and subsuming all these selves under one of us seems a lot like murder or (careful, tasteless comparison) something like the human centipede.

The T offered us another image - one where "integration" means that like any other group of people we could develop a kind of group identity, a shared "culture" or mission or agenda. If we succeed in breaking down the walls between us we would still be separate people but more able to blend or to gently slide from one "mode" into another without the hard edges. Also, the more we share of our histories and learn to understand our differences, the more we would actually become alike, much like people in a long term marriage become much like each other.

We are working on this kind of integration now - finding out who we are as a group, learning to speak with one voice that expresses our collective will. We see this much like a kind of "swarm intelligence" (like the Borg ). No one has to "die" or go away for that.

Maybe you could consider this version of integrating, but as someone already said, you would all have to be on board with it, or it will not work anyway. At the very least, I think it is crucial to listen to the parts of you that are unhappy with this T, because otherwise you may find yourself just flaking out of therapy for "no apparent reason" as we have done several times in the past...

As far as "what medicine considers normal" goes, I would not be too worried. 50 years ago homosexuality was seen as a psychopathology and people were actually forced to "heal" and become straight. Need say more?

Gabriel

Hi, I'm sorry you're having such a hard time in therapy right now. Know that this will get better. As far as integration, I have some experience with that. I have integrated 25 of my 27 alters. This happened over the course of MANY, MANY years of regular therapy. This year is 25 years I've been in therapy. Each alter that integrated had to want to, as did I. I used to fight it each time, until we reached a strong enough sense of healing the trauma that we were ready to join together. The alter didn't die. In fact, I am now able to have the traits and talents of each of those alters. I remember their names fondly, and appreciate all they did for me when we were separate. Most of the bad memories have faded and don't trigger me at all any more. I'm a mire well rounded person. AND I still have Shamer and Desiree. The three of us are not ready to integrate yet. And we don't even think about it right now because we are still healing trauma memories, and dealing with some core issues and beliefs. My T is very skilled, caring and understanding. While she has mentioned integration, its not been to force it on me, and she knows its a long time off. So, we still have more therapy work to do, and things have been rough lately with some of the memories that have come up, but I know I'll get through it. I know I am ultimately working toward integration, and I can't imagine not being all integrated one day. That's what my name means, "all-as-one", Alysone. Hope this helps dispel some of the fear of integration. It absolutely cannot be forced. Your whole system will know when the time is right. You don't lose everyone

-- Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:00 pm --

Sorry, the typing messed up and I hit submit by mistake...

Anyway, you don't lose everyone at once, or at least you don't have to. You can integrate one at a time. And its not really losing them anyway. It's GAINING them, all of each of them are added to you, fully. It's pretty cool, actually.

As far as communication, we have found that writing (not typing where if can be deleted) has been the best way for us all to communicate with each other. Lots if good information has come out that way, for us.

Good luck with your T. Be honest with them, and keep letting them know honestly what you need. I remember getting mad at my T a lot. It's a king process, therapy, and there are bound to be tough spots. Keep in mind that its not easy for a therapist to treat DID. We are very special and complex. So patience on both sides is needed.

Safe hugs for you, if wanted.
Alysone

sounds to me like that T needs a wake-up call. look, integration is strange. its kinda fuked up. but really, having multiple people forced to live one lif int he same body is already fuked up, so do what you want with that.

but like others have said, integration is not the only answer. clearly you guys dont have a fuking clue what your doing. you are not working as a system, you dont know much about one another. you cant work together and you cant integrate, and your therapist is telling you to fuking not dissociate? the host will never get to know anyone that way. controlled dissociation is a must. what you need to be doing is learning about all of the parts of your system. that is the first step toward working as a team, and the first step toward integration. thats where your focus should be. integration has to be willing. you can all decide later whether this is a good idea or not. you dont have to decide now and you shouldnt be trying to decide now. there is no fuking way you are going to vanish over fuking nite. so tell your therapist to back the fuk off the integration talk and do something to actually help you guys. if all he cares about is getting rid of dissociation, then he doesnt know what the fuk hes talking about.

also, the host isnt the only one at fault here for lack of communication. you two internal ones seem pretty high and mighty to me, telling the host that he has to come in to talk to you. yeah, he should work on that, but what about you? maybe if your gonna preach, think what you can do to help the situation. try to be in the background while hes the one in control. talk to him that way. introduce yourself before every comment, so that he can tell the words are coming from you. so he knows who is saying what. talk a bit and try to let the host get to know you that way. so you both have something to work on.

so, to summarize:
1) tell the therapist to quit with all the integration talk and actually help you work as a team and if he wont, then fuking dump his ass and look for someone else.
2) stop fuking arguing over the integration deal. no one is disappearing, and integration, at this rate, is impossible if you were all willing. so just shut up and try to get along.
3) work on controlled dissociation. try to get into the inner world where you can find them. meanwhile, you guys arent off the hook - you all try to be out with him more often. maybe try being out but letting him be in control. it doesnt matter if you meet one another inside or outside, but you need to try to be in the same place at the same time and communicate that way. both are good.

Hi everyone ! Host here.

When Lukas wrote this post, Ralph and him discussed a bit, then eventually I (apparently) joined the conversation. Upon thinking about it again, I clearly wrote those words in black, but I was heavily dissociated enough to forget about the contents...

I decided I'd talk with my psychologist about exploring alternatives and focusing less on a distant goal but rather going on small step at a time based on your recommendations.

I agree with Tunes14, even though I have had my diagnosis of DID last year after the condition was already suspected for quite some time, I have been in denial until recently. I really have no idea how we work, all in all. I only have part-time direct spoken communication with Ralph, and he's kind of the proxy for Lukas and Alfred, Lukas serving as proxy for Raphaël, to his dissatisfaction (I am also questioning the reliability of Lukas as a proxy). Let's just say that more efficient communication would help.

Another part of the problem is quite simply energy consumption. Coming in as not much of a surprise, dissociation is neuroenergetically-demanding, and when others try to get closer to communicate, I begin feeling less "there", and incidentally, less able to communicate. I also feel like I'm constantly fighting to stay concious when I'm at school. Considering that I'm already having difficulties with studying because my memory craps out in a myriad of evermore confusing ways, I'd like for my situation to stay relatively stable.

As to "that procedure which apparently is not appreciated by everyone in here", I'm far from being decided about how I feel about this. So let's make this clear for everyone including myself: I am not going to push forward with any therapy option yet. I'd rather get better communication first, and then we'll be able to have a better idea about how to handle this. When presented with a departure point and a final point not in visibility of each other (temporal, psychological, spatial, graph-nodal, etc), one has to explore a number of paths, choosing an option that seems more appropriate based on a number of criterion. Even rationality is able to understand that; my comprehension of emotions is rather limited, that paths stuff higher is a high-level explanation of the A* path searching algorithm.

We've had a look at the thread about easier communication, and it does contain interesting things to try. I am somewhat able to go in the inner world unvoluntarily, by half-lucid dreaming, but I seem to get there in the wrong "phase": I can see the place, but not the others in there (they sometime faintly appear, flickering and noisy like tv snow).

Now, Tunes14, you mentioned how Ralph and Lukas seemed rather almighty ... The former has an unconventional take on the world, but he was probably asking about inner world issues because more than one of us (me included) is frustrated (I am) at the lack of ability to go in the inner world. The latter is ... generally pissed off ? I don't understand my system, therefore judging them is something I wish to do as little as possible. As to Lukas, he's right about two things: I have controlling tendencies over myself, and now, ourselves. Totalitarian, perhaps not always, but sometimes, it is possible. And I have major problems with trust. Most notably, I trust my psychologist only partially and on the basis that he's a professional. He has yet to gain my personal trust, and that could take years.

I have a lot to work on. And I'm forgetting what else I wanted to talk about. Damn it.

haha. janice here. i cant understand half of your post rite now. but i read over jen's and your most recent one, and it sounds like your going along fine. try to get communication, dont push anything - there is no rush to improve. just move at your own pace. dont worry about integration; if its meant to happen, it will happen on its own when the ones involved are ready and want it. dont take DID too seriously or you end up stressed all the time. its just life, so take it as it goes. your doing fine.

as for jens post, i was laughing so hard at her post. that was james. yeah, um, something like that. shes not exactly one to talk. she doesnt give a hoot about me or james, as she decided the moment we arrived that she hated us. she fights with jess all the time and they frequently compete with one another for time in the body. neither of them co-host worth sh!t and jen does everything she can to remain as mysterious to the rest of us as possible. she follows very little of her own advice.

i can hear you. i do better than you know. besides, i can give good advice while not being perfect myself. its a case of 'do as i say, not as i do'. i still know what im fuking talking about.

... : x

Hi everyone,

Small update here !

During my last session with the psychologist, we discussed about dividing therapy, which he agreed to. That's great because we have defined objectives to work on for the next few sessions, which suits me.

On the other hand, he is still advocating for integration a lot. But then, he also said we'd reexamine the possible outcomes of therapy later.

So, we got that partially solved.