Round Two

I personally think that before accepting all parts as 'you' you do need to allow for some individuality so that you can get to know yourself, fully. I think very few of us here wander too far away from the view point that we are dissociated into alters; but not separate people per se. My alters carry specific emotions around specific memories so yes they are a part of 'me' as a whole but not giving them the space to feel, speak, think hasn't worked in my life thus far. I have simply developed three very chronic phobias and an eating disorder. These parts need space to be heard and if other people are okay with their parts conversing on a forum here then I don't think anyone has any right to judge them for it. I understand what you are saying and to an extent I agree; but just because people are at a different point of healing to you doesn't make them immature, or wrong.

-B

ƒrosty wrote:There was a period of roughly two and a half years where I was split up a whole bunch of ways, and I had to struggle to even have thoughts of my own. There was one other person who was similarly minded, and we bonded over our voices and treated them like entirely disparate entities. I remember having the thought in my head, on multiple occasions, that this was all a sham, and that I knew I could stop it... but then I'd get caught up in it again and the cycle started anew... voices and names come and go and nothing got better. One day, the schism occurred between me and my compatriot, and I decided not to allow myself to be controlled by my insanity. I know now, and fully appreciate that each of the people in my head are a part of me and are in no way separated. Their disparate identities don't make them any less me. I still know them, and can speak with them if I wish, but I don't get swept away in the story of my life.

Technically, yes, all alters, parts, and fragments are the same person, but they are more akin to puzzle pieces that, when together, create the same puzzle/picture. Each puzzle piece can still be very different from the other puzzle pieces, despite the fact that they fit together to create one whole picture, one whole personality. With DID, your personality has "sides" that develop due to interruptions/disruptions to the personality developmental processes. Thus, instead of one whole personality developing as it should, your personality develops "sides", and these "sides" are what later develop into alters. This is not to be mistaken for multiple personalities, as no one can have multiple personalities, hence why MPD was a misnomer and changed to DID. DID is a dissociative disorder that deals with identity issues due to the dissociation. Alters are not separate personalities, but rather developed "sides" of one personality that experienced trauma (any range of trauma, not necessarily abuse), and had the developmental processes interrupted/disrupted.

ƒrosty wrote:All this colored text stuff is a comfortable fantasy in which the participants put on glittery glasses and view the world as a place where they're the star of some diverse drama. It's how pubescent children with DID would act.

The colored text is to help us clarify who is out, who is posting, etc. It helps us have some form of identity, which helps us as a whole since DID deals with identity issues. Knowing who we are, but accepting and acknowledging the fact that yes, we are all the same person, helps us to learn more about ourselves in the sense of what our "purpose"/"role" was/is, what we do and why, how we were developed and why, and allows us freedom to be ourselves after being in an unsafe environment and unable to express ourselves. It is not to create drama, it is not to draw attention to ourselves, it is to help ourselves, help express ourselves, and help realize that despite being parts of the same person, we are safe to express ourselves and make ourselves known.

Some alters are indeed children, and thus, act like children.

ƒrosty wrote:I'd put down money that at least a couple of the people that have been on this board didn't actually have DID, and were using that schism as a coping mechanism for some other psychosis/neurosis, even going so far as to convince themselves of it in order to feel fellowship and acceptance. It's counter productive because there's no forward motion in comfort... and saying that everyone's approach/condition/experience is different just allows each of you to come up with whatever random jargon you want and say it's helping.

As you are not a professional, on what basis do you have any right to make such a call of judgement?

This is not counter productive. We are allowing alters to share their memories, their experiences, speak for themselves, letting them know it is ok to be themselves and speak for themselves, as well as speak of their experiences and memories that we may not share on a conscious level, and other similar things.

Through allowing our alters to be themselves, we can learn more about them, and the more we learn and are aware of, the more progress we make. In the beginning, Cassandra had no control whatsoever, and switches would be made at random, and she would not be able to, in any way, gain control back. Now that we all have better communication with each other, know more about each other, know more about how our system works, and are more aware of things, we are able to switch at-will, we can fight for control, we can ask each other to step down or step up as needed (though the request is not always followed), we are able to communicate with each other about our needs, our fears, our triggers, etc., we are able to help each other by teaching each other how to cope with certain situations (like Kat helps Cassandra to be more confident and stand up for herself instead of just simply taking over for Cassandra now), we are able to share memories for therapy reasons and to help decrease amnesia and lost time, and we are able to be aware of when/if we are co-conscious or co-hosting with each other.

ƒrosty wrote:I saw Tomboy experience a moment of radical acceptance of her own mental health, but the rest of the community was too afraid of losing one of their cast to encourage it. It isn't about suppressing your selves... Just knowing how to take their opinions and thoughts as more of your own.

I believe this has already been corrected, but what you saw in us was denial, NOT radical acceptance. What you saw was Cassandra denying that she had DID, denying that she had alters, and denying that her DID and her alters were real. This is unhelpful and the other users here were trying to help convince her that it was real, that she was not a liar, she was not faking, and she was not acting. They were helping her to realize that she was experiencing denial and that this was all real so that she would not ignore it and make things worse for herself, and so that she would not stop looking into getting help/therapy for this.

ƒrosty wrote:Comfort and stability are nice, but complacency is a real killer. I think a dissenting opinion would help some of you better realize where you stand as an individual, who is experiencing disassociation.

I think that you do not understand how we help ourselves here, and how we support each other here, and thus you look down upon it, despite the fact that not understanding something is no reason to judge or look down upon it.

We all have a fairly good grip on reality, and we all know that we are all one person, that we are technically all the same person. But we are also different within being the same person, we are alters/"sides" of the same person, and if we are not allowed to express ourselves or be acknowledged as ourselves, conflict can occur. Some alters can get very angry if they are not allowed to be heard as themselves, or if they are expected to hide behind the hosts' name and usual behaviours. Some alters can get rather sad and depressed, feeling ignored and unimportant, or even unloved or not cared for if they are not acknowledged, recognized, and allowed to express themselves. Some alters are stuck in trauma, permanently reliving a flashback until another alter, such as the host, can find them and help them get out of that flashback and realize that they are not in the past anymore, but they still need to be able to express their feelings and thoughts about that trauma memory. Thus, to help ourselves as a whole and individually, we allow each other the freedom to express ourselves, be ourselves, and make it clear who is who, though we (unless in denial) always acknowledge the fact that yes, we are all technically the same person, and we always take responsibility for what we say, do, how we behave, etc. We are not using DID as an excuse, we simply use it to explain why things happen, and we accept the full responsibility of things that happen.


As alters/parts of the same person, if you do not get to know the alter themselves for who they are, you are not learning about that part of yourself, and thus you will not know about that part, you will not be able to help that part, (at least, not properly), and you will not be able to fully or properly heal. This is especially true for alters/parts that hold trauma or certain memories and/or emotions. If you do not get to know that alter for themselves, you will not know their memories or emotions, and thus you will not know important information in relation to healing and getting better, and that part will stay buried along with their memories and/or emotions, and the DID will continue and not improve.



(I know it has already been stated, but I would like to make it clear that we respectfully request that our, (Tomboy's), situation is not discussed further here, or on any other thread, at least not without our notification and approval. Thank you).


~Rain

All the alters in my system who are old enough to understand do get that we are all the same person. However, half of my alters are very young children and they mostly don't seem to get it. I can't read their thoughts but I can sometimes hear phrases they say to themselves or see images. Their words and actions when they are in control of the body and we are talking to them from inside indicate they mostly don't understand what's going on.

As an example, Max was out walking this week, and he slowed down and came to a confused halt when I began to explain to him (again) that we are all parts of the same person and in one body. He listened and tried to process it. I saw fleeting images from fairy tales and he asked some questions but it was clear he couldn't piece it all together. It was mostly confounding and upsetting him so I stopped after a minute.

It's one thing for the host or parts who are not a small child to come to accept the reality -- over time -- that everyone together is part of the same mind. But it's not at all productive or realistic to expect every alter, such as young, deaf, non-human, or severely traumatized alters, to accept and understand what's happening. In addition, there are alters who are heavily invested in a denial of the DID and react very negatively to pressure. Distributed judiciously, denial can aid in maintaining a person's functionality and emotional stability, at least in the short run, and this is true not just for people with DID.

I did not say I did not understand. I completely understand what everyone has and is saying. I was saying all of you don't understand what Frosty is saying because you all choose to have a dissatisfied ear. I think you should read more thoroughly with a dictionary before you reply to things and reword what i or anyone else says to your benefit of disagreement.

salted lipstick wrote:I think you are more or less saying though that this doesn't need to get out of control to an inappropriate point where it is simply creating drama as opposed to increasing knowledge? Would this be correct?

michiru wrote:I think that frosty's suggestion assumes good communication with and awareness of all parts of you. frosty, please correct me if I'm wrong.

bourbon wrote:but not giving them the space to feel, speak, think hasn't worked in my life thus far

I seem to be having a lot of trouble getting this point across... Let me try again.

It's not drama that I see so much as fantastical storytelling. There's no therapeutic benefit to this second-person communication. It's just the feeling of being involved in something larger than yourself, or feeling complex or mysterious. If an individual has experiences indicative of disassociation, it would do better by that individual to think of themselves as an amalgamation of these entities (which is literally the truth), rather than ostentatiously presenting so many of each one's thoughts. Why bother? It's empty soothing.

tomboy wrote:You were mistaken in what you saw, then, no offense.

I bet you would say this now. There's nothing for me to add.

Johnny-Jack wrote:Actually the colored text is used to distinguish that one specific dissociated identity is speaking instead of another identity in a system.

Well... yeah. I get the purpose. The entire practice of this differentiation is what is fantastical to me.

Surely you are aware that many of these identities are pubescent children and many are pre-pubescent. So if they sound young, it's because they are young dissociated parts.

This is a really sketchy thing to say. Of course many of the parts are going to be young when the physical brain is emotionally stunted, or the person is actually just fourteen.

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Haha, darn; I wish I could've read what Adameil posted.
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bourbon wrote:These parts need space to be heard and if other people are okay with their parts conversing on a forum here then I don't think anyone has any right to judge them for it.

Oh? I don't think I have any rights... just what I can get and get away with.

bourbon wrote:I understand what you are saying and to an extent I agree; but just because people are at a different point of healing to you doesn't make them immature, or wrong.

I concede on this point. I'll have to learn to coexist with those who haven't traveled as far as I have.

tomboy wrote:Technically, yes, all alters, parts, and fragments are the same person, but they are more akin to puzzle pieces that, when together, create the same puzzle/picture. [...etc]

I don't feel like you've disagreed with me at all, just reword what I said in a way that closer fits your worldview.

The colored text is to help us clarify who is out, who is posting, etc. It helps us have some form of identity, which helps us as a whole since DID deals with identity issues.[...etc]

This is just going in circles with what I've said before... Yes; I know this is what you claim. I still disagree. This all started because I shared a view of mine and ya'll rose up and collectively disagreed, and until some more information enters the discourse, it'll all amount to 'yeah-huh!' 'nuh-uh!'

As you are not a professional, on what basis do you have any right to make such a call of judgement?

Rights... The same right you have to say what's right for you.

I'll take this opportunity to address everyone on this: My qualifications amount to Fellow Pilgrim. You can either chose to accept what I say or dismiss it, but don't feed me all this crap about the right to judge. It's a weak cop-out of a discussion. If you are so raised to ire by what I post and don't want to give a rebuttal, say honestly "I don't want to respond to you, and I think your opinions are invalid". I'll respect anyone's decision to eschew communication with me.

tomboy wrote:I think that you do not understand how we help ourselves here, and how we support each other here, and thus you look down upon it, despite the fact that not understanding something is no reason to judge or look down upon it. [...etc]

If I had joined this forum seven years ago, I would've fit right in. I'm well aware of the thinking that has led this community to form the way it has. All the accounts and explanations of the community's experiences are familiar to me already (so far, anyway).

OkAY just asking so practically i think he is saying that the DID forum is a bunch of people. who use DID to express there other issues and be apart of some kind of melodramatic drama.

But I will say its seems he did back down from one of his points when his flaw was pointed out.

I'm not attacking I'm just trying to get things clear.

spanky_spee wrote:OkAY just asking so practically i think he is saying that the DID forum is a bunch of people. who use DID to express there other issues and be apart of some kind of melodramatic drama.

If that were what I'm saying, I would've just said that.

But I will say its seems he did back down from one of his points when his flaw was pointed out.

Which would that have been?

ƒrosty wrote:There's no therapeutic benefit to this second-person communication.

ƒrosty wrote:Why bother? It's empty soothing.

I'm getting the feeling that somewhere along the line you've missed something here... I'm not quite sure how to further explain how there is therapeutic benefit in this method of communication further than what has already been said on this thread. Maybe this is something that really needs to be experienced by a person before it can be understood how it is beneficial?

ƒrosty wrote:it would do better by that individual to think of themselves as an amalgamation of these entities (which is literally the truth)

I got the feeling that all of the replies so far did express that they see themselves like this, just in different words than what you use. I said I did, some other notable examples being Rain's description of puzzle pieces, and this by Johnny Jack:

Johnny-Jack wrote:All the alters in my system who are old enough to understand do get that we are all the same person.

I definitely think you are missing the something here and I'm really not sure how to further clarify to you where the benefit lies in acknowledging, at least to some degree, the separateness of different parts by using different text colours.

ƒrosty wrote:

tomboy wrote:You were mistaken in what you saw, then, no offense.

I bet you would say this now. There's nothing for me to add.

OK I AM MAD. But I will try to respond appropriately.

Are you suggesting that I'm lying? Or that I'm changing my story and what really happened now, after the fact? Why? YOU WERE THE ONE WHO WAS MISTAKEN. WHAT YOU SAW WAS DENIAL, NOT ANYTHING HELPFUL OR ANY RADICAL ACCEPTANCE OF ANYTHING. Do not assume you know me better than myself. I know it was denial. I know there is an alter in denial themselves that was promoting denial to me. I know it was nothing helpful. And I find it rather insulting that you come on here and suggest that I'm changing my story or am lying or am not getting it right even though IT HAPPENED TO ME, IT IS MY EXPERIENCE AND SITUATION, SO I THINK I'D KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON BETTER THAN YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ MY THREAD CORRECTLY, YOU WOULD SEE A PART/ALTER WHO IS TRYING TO TELL AND CONVINCE ME THAT I AM LYING, OR FAKING, OR ACTING, WHEN I AM NOT. YOU WOULD SEE DENIAL HAPPENING, NOT RADICAL ACCEPTANCE OF ANYTHING HELPFUL OR POSITIVE IN ANY WAY. YOU WOULD SEE A PART/ALTER TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THAT MY DID IS NOT REAL EVEN THOUGH IT IS AND THAT MY ALTERS ARE NOT REAL EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE. THAT IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING, THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING, THAT IS WHAT YOU SAW AND MISTOOK FOR SOMETHING POSITIVE WHEN IT WAS NOTHING CLOSE TO THAT.




We're not sure what you're trying to gain, here, by simply saying over and over that you supposedly understand and "get it", but you just disagree. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't really care that you disagree. That's your right, that's your choice. Disagree all you want. But you can disagree without being insulting. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not looking to make you change your mind, or convince you of anything, or anything like that. I'm here for support, not to explain how my way of helping myself and healing works to people who don't seem to understand what we're trying to explain to them. So, we're done. We might keep an eye on this thread still, but we don't understand why you're here, what you're trying to gain/do here, we've said what we wanted to say and cannot think of a way to make ourselves any clearer to you, and we're not looking to spend our time trying to convince you of something you've clearly already built a set-in-stone opinion against. We're here to support others, to offer help/advice to others, and to heal. Not to try and explain how our way of helping ourselves and healing works to people who are so clearly already against it anyway.


-Cassandra/a mixture

so frosty
So this place you believe should just be strict discussion on just DID issues. - Barry