Memory manipulation

*Possible Trigger Warning*

Hey, I was wondering if anyone has any alters (aside from Gate Keeper types) that can control memory, like take away or alter a recent memory.

((What brought up this question:))

I have an introject that does abuse me, and I have been learning techniques to fight it off recently. It has always had some manipulation over my memory - I would tend to forget certain instances. I learned of this when we started delving for information and with the help of my best friend, I discovered that he kept going back on what he said and I would forget key parts of conversations I had. I would type out an experience I had (to keep a record) and later, remember it differently or some parts I wouldn't remember at all. He could also control my emotions to an extent - he could make me calm when I had no reason to be calm, such as after his attacks (to give me a "it wasn't SO bad" feeling), and he has made me terrified for no reason as well (when he's just standing in a corner nearby and I'd normally be telling him to go away, I just get this overwhelming sense of fear).

I've always assumed that it was him causing this, but Janice has come up with another theory; that he may be using an alter or a fragment that the rest of us are unaware of. The emotions sound like it could be an alter, since I don't know where they are coming from, and he's not feeling them, maybe he created (or caused the creation of) an alter or fragment that does feel those feelings that he can trigger. She says that in co-hosting, emotions can be a little hard to track who they belong to. If he can call forth, say for example, a fragment who is terrified (maybe of him, maybe just in general) to co-host with me, I may not even notice it's there. But it would explain where the fear is coming from. And the memories that he's moving/changing have to go somewhere. And if there isn't a fragment that can TAKE the memories, there could be a fragment created just because he keeps throwing memories at it. But some of the memories aren't just taken away, but they are changed in my memory. We've never heard of alters or fragments that can change memories. And we don't know if there has to be a copy of what really happened somewhere or if the change permanently deletes the truth, or anything like that.

((Back to the question:))

So what I'd like to know is if any of you have anyone in your systems that has memory manipulation abilities and how it works (to the best of your knowledge). We figure that the more we can figure out about what this introject is doing, the better chance we have of fighting it.

I can't help much, but I've met an alter who claims she has edited her own memory. (though this may also just have been an attempt to comfort me) I'd ask her more, but were not sure where she is.... Sorry, I know that probably didn't help to much, but I figured I'd mention it...

Thank you. It helped just to get a reply. ^^

uhmmmm hi well see we dont does it to be bad but we does hides stuff that would hurt or makes some of us member stuff they shouldnt

so is that bein bad

tara

this is jen - too lazy to find my color.

no, it does not make you bad just to control memories. its bad for us because the person doing it is trying to hurt us. your not hurting, your helping. so you are not doing anything wrong.

I'm writing this for someone else (who has posted on this forum before). That person says that we get memories taken away. She says that we're not supposed to know that everyone else exists and so they (dunno who) take away the memories of hearing everyone talking, generally speaking.

This someone, though, she managed to keep a memory away that they wanted to take away (still do, she says). She said that she was able to do it because she knew what was a trigger for it to happen and clung to the memory like a lifeline, kind of. She wrote it down in about three different places and kept repeating it to herself. Like, "I heard a voice talk to Normal (our old host), and it said x because Normal being gone didn't know x, even though x has been true for months now."

janice here. thanks for the information on keeping memories. Jess does that - she keeps a fairly tight record of what the introject does and makes a point to write it out as soon as possible after it happens/is discovered. but lately, she doesnt even seem to know its happened. it seems to her like losing time. most of the time, she doesnt even notice that she blacked out. were not sure if she does or if the memories are instantly altered after the fact, or whats going on. we were hoping that memory alteration was something that was more common than it seems to be. we were hoping to get some experiences that we can use to try to determine how the memory is being taken away.

its possible that she is having her memory later altered by the introject. its also possible that she doesnt remember because she is out, but shes more or less 'sleeping' while a victim fragment or alter is actually in control. ive even considered that maybe there is a victim fragment or alter co-hosting with jess and that one just takes the memory when they go, like it belongs to them. i dont know how any of this works or how likely it may be, but we are trying to determine how this could be happening.

those who havent had direct experience are welcome to throw some ideas in based on whatever they do know about their systems or other systems, since its all speculation anyway. we just thought that most of the posts would be from those with experiences as opposed to those without. but its really all the same to us.

Yeah... I can't tell when there are switches, generally speaking. So I lose lots of things, but I'm not sure if they're getting taken away or I'm throwing them away or switches or what.

As far as we can tell, the memory-taker's job is to make sure that whoever knows is supposed to know what they know, if that makes any kind of sense. So the taking is, generally speaking, immediate. You are not supposed to know, full stop.

We think that the memory-taker is supposed to operate under-awareness for us. So losing time when he's out and not being aware of his activities is normal for us. What's abnormal is if/when we're aware of what's going on. Do you get what I'm saying? If your Jess and our someone can keep a memory or even has a memory to keep in the first place, it means that someone has screwed up somewhere. And seriously, if you want to learn more about what the introject is keeping from you, you need to get to know the introject, we would assume.

Sometimes the taking is less immediate. That's when whoever is in charge of deciding what memories get taken doesn't know the implications of letting us know whatever it is. Or when it's more important that we know (at least temporarily) what happened. But if the taking is less immediate, there's been more time to cement it into memory, if you know what I'm saying. To form connections to the memory from different directions. So if they take it later, in our system, we should be able to get it back from following connections, or else it'll be really obvious it's gone (which is sort of the opposite of what they want for our system). And if there are connections, they have to almost fade it away. Questioning if it really happened and making you question if it really happened. Then eventually, you don't think about it, and then one day, it's gone.

Which is to say, the closer it is to being a clue to whatever they're trying to hide from you, the harder you have to fight to keep it and the less likely you are to know in the first place.

Is this more what you were looking for?

yes, that is more what i was looking for. i completely understand what you are saying about it being easier to retrieve memories when its taken away later, the pathways in the brain, all that fun stuff. but we arent concerned with finding out what hes keeping from us. we know what hes keeping. hes keeping anything that might make it easier for Jess to fight him.

*trigger warning*
he abuses Jess, and shes been trying to stop him as of late. you know, fighting it. trying to ignore him. pushing him off when he tries to take control. she doesnt usually succeed, but she was getting better at it, it was getting harder for him to pull his crap. then suddenly, he seemed to completely stop. we know thats unlike him. weve also caught him in a moment where he 'slipped up' and had to take away a memory later, but we already had a record. so we know he can take away or change memories. what we dont know is how he goes about taking them. so when things slowed down, we suspected that they didnt really slow down, he just started altering memory again. but that meant that he was doing something that prevented Jess from fighting. well, yesterday morning, Jess woke up with pain that still hasnt gone away. no memory of anything suspicious at all, but pain. so we know for a fact that he hasnt slowed down.

the issue originated when i randomly got a thought - what if he has an alter on his side, or a fragment, that helps him, one that is co-hosting when these things happen, or even just that stores the memories that he takes away? and since i know something inside that others apparently arent supposed to know (due to the fact that whenever we come out where we could talk about it, both james and i lose all memories of the inside - i dont know if thats regulated or not, but if it is, i dont think its from the introject), i figured that a thought like that coming out of nowhere probably was relevant. but ive been trying to figure out what that would mean. if its possible for him to use that alter, if he has been, if its even possible that a fragment or alter like that could be in there. but i dont have those answers. i dont know whats possible and whats not. i dont know how any of this works.
*end trigger warning*

the significance of it is... well, we cant get information from this introject because he makes everything up as he goes and lies a lot and uses every possible moment to manipulate. but if there are other alters that deal with him, that means they may know more about him. that means the memories that Jess is missing about him are accessible. that means that Jess may not be the only target or the only motivator for this guy. that means he may have more weaknesses or weapons that we need to be on the lookout for. it can mean a lot of things if im onto something.

so i want to know how all this works. Is it possible that there is a victim part somewhere? is it possible for him to use that part in any way? what might he be able to do with it? how can we defend against it? is it possible that a part be formed just because he keeps throwing Jess's memories somewhere? is it possible that he doesnt even know about it yet if there is one? is it possible that hes been using this part for a long time already? what can he do with it if it is there? what are the chances of it being there? these are the questions im trying to answer. anything that might be relevant to any of these questions is the type of thing im looking for.

*Trigger Warning*

We don't know if we can help much, but in our case, "Hannibal" has a favorite, and that's Kat. So he will actively try to make her be the one that's out in the body when he's hurting it, and he will only really go after her. He'll abuse us mostly to either "call"/trigger her out, or to punish us in addition to Kat, but his main focus is always her.

So, it's possible that there's an alter who is this abuser's main focus, and they're being forced to keep quiet or something, or don't know that there's any other option or others inside that can help, or something like that. Or they've been told to not tell secrets, or something. Pretty much imagine the dynamic between an abuser and victim in real life, and those are all possibilities for this situation.

It could be that there's an alter helping him, but for some reason, it just doesn't seem as likely to me as the victim alter possibility. It would make it easier to remove memories from a victim, and it'd make it easier to remove memories from others if it was someone else that's not known about/of yet. Especially if this one is coming out and causing lost time anyway, and then gets abused.


How much is known about this alter? Are they abusive because they're an introject? Or are they an abuser-protector, trying to protect you from memories or knowledge or something? The more you know about the attacker, including why he attacks, the more you can guess about the victim, and that might help you to find the victim alter, if there is one.

Until then, is there any way to help yourself stay safe? Are there any "warning signs" of this alter coming out at all that you can look out for, or is there a way you can put an alter on watch inside or something like that? Could you all try to fight him together, as you're stronger together than one is standing alone? We've been able to fight "Hannibal" that way, by standing and fighting together.


Hope this gets better for you soon, and becomes clearer for you as well. Best of luck with this.


-Cassandra