Doubting myself. Was it enough?

So I'm not diagnosed. Just to be clear. I've been having other people in my head for about ten years now and I only nos have fully spoken to a osychologist about it. When i first talked about it a psychologist said it wasn't her area of expertise and I'd need to speak to someone else about it. I was upset so I never brought it up again, convincing myself I just made it up. Maybe it was easier to seal with if I convinced myself it's made up.

I know nobody can diagnose me and I'm not asking for that, but im just scared and right now I have no access to a psychologist. Probably won't fir some time. I'm on a waiting list.

When I told my latest Councillor who I only had 8 sessions with, on our final session, she didn't frek out or dismiss me. She listened to me. Asked me about them. So I told her a little bit and she seemed to think it was something I should look into. She called my doctor. To make sure i get help.

But one of them, she's not happy I told. She doesn't want people interfering. She won't talk to me now. She's been pretty silent. It worries me.

But one of the others is still around. She's a little girl and she seems very sweet. But it still freaks me out.

I have tried to read up on stuff to see if I might have some dissociative disorder. But I'm not sure if I fit the criteria. I don't get full blackouts. I do switch sometimes but mostly I remember what happened. Kinda. It's just like I have no control and they kind of speak for us. I can still kinda see what's happening but it's like my eyes are foggy.

When the little girl is out, it's like my limbs go all floppy and I start giggling to myself and become very childlike.

Other times she will jistbkurt things out when she sees something like a Teddy she wants. She gets very upset and I feel tears welling up and we immediately burst into tears.

I don't hear them in my head constantly which I feel like most people do. And don't you need to have trauma really young for this to happen?

I've got a diagnosis of cptsd from trauma mostly starting from around 11. But nedore that I also grew up in an abusive household & experienced emotional neglect. I hardly remember my childhood, jidt random bits and pieces. I did have two experiences of sexual assault when I was six at the hands of a boy my age but I don't think that's that traumatic. It just happened once. It was nothing compared to what happened later.

I keep doubting myself and half the time I think it's real, the other I'm convinced I'm making it up for attention
But idk because nobody really knows.

I tool some dissociative experiences questionnaire things just to get an idea but it's hard to know if a lot of my stuff is just from my cptsd or maybe ahe regression due to trauma? But then why does she have a name and stuff? You don't usually hear people in your head when regressing do you? I don't know. I'm so confused and I don't know what to make of it. Im terrified of it being real and of it not being real.

LavenderRose1312 wrote:But one of them, she's not happy I told. She doesn't want people interfering. She won't talk to me now. She's been pretty silent. It worries me.

The parts of us who talk in our heads like they are different people ("parts", "dissociated parts" or even "alters" when they are very separate from us) can sometimes see it as "dangerous" to talk to outside people. Especially if, in the past, talking was faced with hostility. (Denial, bullying...) Her reaction is understandable especially in our society where "voices in your head" are seen as "made them shut up with meds". However, the contemporary directives for the treatment of dissociative disorders says that the voices need to be heard, talked with, and worked with. As in, cooperation for the everyday life, making all of them happy, comforting them when they are distressed, making sure they have a safe environment to express themselves, heal their wounds, etc etc.

You'll find ressources about the therapy in the link in my signature. I especially advice to start with:
Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors Overcoming Internal Self-Alienation by Janina Fisher (2017)
Guidelines for Treating Dissociative Identity Disorder in Adults by the ISSTD (2011)
Practice Guidelines for Clinical Treatment of Complex Trauma by Blue Knot (2019)
Coping with Trauma-Related Dissociation: Skills Training for Patients and Therapists by Suzette Boon, Kathy Steele, Onno van der Hart (2011)
Website : Troubles Dissociatifs Documentation [the link redirects to the automatic French → English translation]

(the LibGen links might need a VPN to open)

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I have tried to read up on stuff to see if I might have some dissociative disorder. But I'm not sure if I fit the criteria. I don't get full blackouts. I do switch sometimes but mostly I remember what happened. Kinda. It's just like I have no control and they kind of speak for us. I can still kinda see what's happening but it's like my eyes are foggy.

Full black-outs are very rare and not a diagnosis criteria. Amnesia is more subtle than that and is more often trauma-specific or partial. The others check out for a dissociative disorder.

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I don't hear them in my head constantly which I feel like most people do.

Nope, that's only the most dissociated people who experience them "constantly". The less dissociated we are the calmer/quieter the mind. And ADHD people can have a constant "inner narrator" without qualifying for a dissociative disorder. The "pop culture" knowledge about mental health that most people learn mental health from, is very... not good and not accurate.

LavenderRose1312 wrote:And don't you need to have trauma really young for this to happen?

Welcome to the world of "was this trauma?" There are a lot of things that are not physical violence which count as "trauma" for the brain of a baby or toddler. Also, not-DID-but-still-voices-and-different-identities-disorder (OSDD for example) can develop after the age of 8. It will not reach the intensity of symptoms of DID but it can still cause variations in the sense of self and identity, hearing voices etc.

Among the things that are traumatic for the brain but our society thinks it's not trauma:
- having dissociated or traumatized parents
- having a disorganized attachment style
- being left alone to cry as a baby
- being psychologically or emotionally mistreated without physical violence
- being neglected

And you do describe the emotional neglect, abusive household and amnesia about childhood which are signs of early life trauma and dissociative disorders. Atop of this, the other assaults you experienced, that's way enough to start dissociating. Because you had it worse later on, does not mean the early onsets were "nothing". They already were enough. You might not "feel" it because the emotions and distress are carried inside another, dissociated part of you. That's what dissociation is used by the brain for: storing the pain in another self, another identity, so you can function on a daily basis without collapsing under the weight of the pain. The good new is: it's never too late to heal. <3

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I keep doubting myself and half the time I think it's real, the other I'm convinced I'm making it up for attention.

Been there, done that, got all the Tshirts - 99% of the posters on the DID subforum went through this too. It's almost a diagnosis criteria at this point. xD

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I tool some dissociative experiences questionnaire things just to get an idea but it's hard to know if a lot of my stuff is just from my cptsd or maybe ahe regression due to trauma?

Both. All at once. Dissociation is a spectrum and simple PTSD is already a dissociative disorder. "regression due to trauma" is a sign of dissociation and trauma, it's a form of flashback and/or identity shift/switch. It's real AND it's "all in your head" because that's where your brain is.

You are NOT "making it up for attention" because if you were consciously "making it up" you would know. But your subconscious brain is "making it up for attention" because it is still wounded and it needs healing. The different parts of you are asking for your attention because they need the care and attention and healing and support. And it's a completely normal reaction of the brain when it has a lot of stress and past wounds and trauma to deal with. It's easier that way. It's easier for adult-you to take care of child-you-talking-in-your-head so that's how your brain structured itself. It's so easier to do that, that there are whole therapies for not-dissociated-people (internal family system, ego state therapy...) which ask the person to, like, "open the hood of the brain to see the different parts" because it's easier that way to manage emotions, trauma triggers, understand how your brain work...

That's how the human brain works. Parts. Sometimes you need to temporarily give them faces and voices to work in therapy, sometimes they create their own faces and voices and they come to you trying to help you, to keep you safe, or asking for your help and comfort. It's confusing at first but it gets better with time.

You'll get more answers and help on the DID board. That's where all dissociative people tend to flock to because it's more active. Moreover, DID includes all the symptoms of all the other dissociative disorders so no matter the intensity of your symptoms, you'll get help and advice for them here. It's like having a leaf in your hand and asking a tree how the leaf works. The tree will know, it has thousands of leaves. But if you wait to find another single leaf to ask the question you might wait longer and have less diverse advice.

ArbreMonde wrote:

LavenderRose1312 wrote:But one of them, she's not happy I told. She doesn't want people interfering. She won't talk to me now. She's been pretty silent. It worries me.

The parts of us who talk in our heads like they are different people ("parts", "dissociated parts" or even "alters" when they are very separate from us) can sometimes see it as "dangerous" to talk to outside people. Especially if, in the past, talking was faced with hostility. (Denial, bullying...) Her reaction is understandable especially in our society where "voices in your head" are seen as "made them shut up with meds". However, the contemporary directives for the treatment of dissociative disorders says that the voices need to be heard, talked with, and worked with. As in, cooperation for the everyday life, making all of them happy, comforting them when they are distressed, making sure they have a safe environment to express themselves, heal their wounds, etc etc.

That makes sense. Tori doesn't see it as safe. Like nobody will believe us. And if they have a bad reaction, she's worried about that, I think. So I understand where she is coming from.

ArbreMonde wrote: You'll find ressources about the therapy in the link in my signature. I especially advice to start with:
Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors Overcoming Internal Self-Alienation by Janina Fisher (2017)
Guidelines for Treating Dissociative Identity Disorder in Adults by the ISSTD (2011)
Practice Guidelines for Clinical Treatment of Complex Trauma by Blue Knot (2019)
Coping with Trauma-Related Dissociation: Skills Training for Patients and Therapists by Suzette Boon, Kathy Steele, Onno van der Hart (2011)
Website : Troubles Dissociatifs Documentation [the link redirects to the automatic French → English translation]

(the LibGen links might need a VPN to open)

Thank you so much for those resources. I will give them a read. I've been trying to understand as best I can on my own so this will be so helpful.

ArbreMonde wrote:

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I have tried to read up on stuff to see if I might have some dissociative disorder. But I'm not sure if I fit the criteria. I don't get full blackouts. I do switch sometimes but mostly I remember what happened. Kinda. It's just like I have no control and they kind of speak for us. I can still kinda see what's happening but it's like my eyes are foggy.

Full black-outs are very rare and not a diagnosis criteria. Amnesia is more subtle than that and is more often trauma-specific or partial. The others check out for a dissociative disorder.

Oh, I guess I really do need to read up on things because I didn't know that you didn't need to have full blackouts. I suppose with amnesia, I wouldn't even remember what parts I'm missing so who knows what I know and don't know. I have a feeling I'm missing something from when we were 9 because a lot of things changed then in our behaviour but can't recall anything around that age specifically that would've caused that.

ArbreMonde wrote:

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I don't hear them in my head constantly which I feel like most people do.

Nope, that's only the most dissociated people who experience them "constantly". The less dissociated we are the calmer/quieter the mind. And ADHD people can have a constant "inner narrator" without qualifying for a dissociative disorder. The "pop culture" knowledge about mental health that most people learn mental health from, is very... not good and not accurate.

Oh wow, well everything I learn makes it more and more likely that my experiences could fall in line with a dissociative disorder and idk how I feel about that.

ArbreMonde wrote:

LavenderRose1312 wrote:And don't you need to have trauma really young for this to happen?

Welcome to the world of "was this trauma?" There are a lot of things that are not physical violence which count as "trauma" for the brain of a baby or toddler. Also, not-DID-but-still-voices-and-different-identities-disorder (OSDD for example) can develop after the age of 8. It will not reach the intensity of symptoms of DID but it can still cause variations in the sense of self and identity, hearing voices etc.

Among the things that are traumatic for the brain but our society thinks it's not trauma:
- having dissociated or traumatized parents
- having a disorganized attachment style
- being left alone to cry as a baby
- being psychologically or emotionally mistreated without physical violence
- being neglected

And you do describe the emotional neglect, abusive household and amnesia about childhood which are signs of early life trauma and dissociative disorders. Atop of this, the other assaults you experienced, that's way enough to start dissociating. Because you had it worse later on, does not mean the early onsets were "nothing". They already were enough. You might not "feel" it because the emotions and distress are carried inside another, dissociated part of you. That's what dissociation is used by the brain for: storing the pain in another self, another identity, so you can function on a daily basis without collapsing under the weight of the pain. The good new is: it's never too late to heal. <3

My brother died when I was a baby so my parents were emotionally distant and numb sometimes, angry the other. My mum was loving but at a distance. My dad was always angry and used to throw things and shout a lot. He thinks he is better than everyone and constantly puts me down. Any idea I express that he doesn't like, he will go out of hos way to fimd the tiniest hole in your argument to prove that he is right and you are wrong. He held me up against a wall and choked me once because my brother and I were arguing so basically I was always scared of him and walking on eggshells so as not to anger him. We would we awake listening to them argue a lot and planning what to do if he hurt her. I also had to distract and protect my 2yo brother I was 5. Dad was too busy smoking weed & getting mad at us kids for being too loud to actually care. Definitely not an easy household to grow up in. I guess what I'm saying is that there's definitely trauma but I'm always questioning like was it enough to cause this? But maybe me being autistic plays into it too because that's a whole other thing to grow up with and changes my perception of things. I've also heard of recent studies that say that growing up autistic in a neurotypical world is traumatising in itself and that autistics can be traumatized by things that neurotgpicals aren't effected by as much. But idk.

ArbreMonde wrote:

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I keep doubting myself and half the time I think it's real, the other I'm convinced I'm making it up for attention.

Been there, done that, got all the Tshirts - 99% of the posters on the DID subforum went through this too. It's almost a diagnosis criteria at this point. xD

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I tool some dissociative experiences questionnaire things just to get an idea but it's hard to know if a lot of my stuff is just from my cptsd or maybe ahe regression due to trauma?

Both. All at once. Dissociation is a spectrum and simple PTSD is already a dissociative disorder. "regression due to trauma" is a sign of dissociation and trauma, it's a form of flashback and/or identity shift/switch. It's real AND it's "all in your head" because that's where your brain is.

You are NOT "making it up for attention" because if you were consciously "making it up" you would know. But your subconscious brain is "making it up for attention" because it is still wounded and it needs healing. The different parts of you are asking for your attention because they need the care and attention and healing and support. And it's a completely normal reaction of the brain when it has a lot of stress and past wounds and trauma to deal with. It's easier that way. It's easier for adult-you to take care of child-you-talking-in-your-head so that's how your brain structured itself. It's so easier to do that, that there are whole therapies for not-dissociated-people (internal family system, ego state therapy...) which ask the person to, like, "open the hood of the brain to see the different parts" because it's easier that way to manage emotions, trauma triggers, understand how your brain work...

That's how the human brain works. Parts. Sometimes you need to temporarily give them faces and voices to work in therapy, sometimes they create their own faces and voices and they come to you trying to help you, to keep you safe, or asking for your help and comfort. It's confusing at first but it gets better with time.

I knew dissociation was common with cptsd but I
Didnt know it is a dissociative disorder.

I dissociate a lot but always attributed it to my cptsd which in sire a lot of the time it is, but yeah.

Maybe its easier if I believe I'm making it up, because I don't know what to do if this is real. On one hand it would explain so much and it would be nice to finally have some answers. On the other, these people I now have to accept and embrace and idk, it's a lot.

A past therapist did do some IFS work with me and it didn't feel like a part, it was like Jojo, the little girl was there but she couldn't say anything to our therapist. She really wanted to. But Drake told her no, so she didn't. I remember Jojo acting like herself and the therapist just looked very surprised and I could see she tried to cover up her surprise with a positive expression so idk what was going on there. Yeah, a lot to unpack I guess.

I have a lot of love for Jojo, the little girl. She's sweet and idk, I feel protective over her, but I dont knpw about the others just yet. I've been trying to get to know them a little better. I found a tumblr blog that they wrote together and have been looking over it to try to learn more.


Anyway, im sorry for this absurdly long reply to your wonderfully detailed response. Thank you so much for taling the time to answer. I've been going over and over all this in my head for years and feel I'm going around in circles so I think it's good sometimes to get an outside perspective.

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I guess what I'm saying is that there's definitely trauma but I'm always questioning like was it enough to cause this? But maybe me being autistic plays into it too because that's a whole other thing to grow up with and changes my perception of things.

What you describe was enough to develop dissociative disorders. Atop of this, being autistic is enough to develop dissociative disorders (because everything seems "too intense" for a young autistic brain) To give you an idea, going to see fireworks as a toddler was traumatizing for me just because, too loud, too bright, unknown place, unusual situation, my brain flipped and voilà, trauma. What you went through was way more intense than fireworks. If fireworks is enough to traumatize an autistic kid, what you went through was certainly past that "enough" line. Things can look mundane to an adult neurotypical brain and be absolutely the most horrible thing to an autistic toddler brain.

LavenderRose1312 wrote:Maybe its easier if I believe I'm making it up, because I don't know what to do if this is real. On one hand it would explain so much and it would be nice to finally have some answers. On the other, these people I now have to accept and embrace and idk, it's a lot.

You do not have to tell people it's OSDD or DID. You are allowed to keep saying "complex trauma with depersonnalization / derealization" and walk your own way towards healing with self-help books for DID people.

LavenderRose1312 wrote:A past therapist did do some IFS work with me and it didn't feel like a part, it was like Jojo, the little girl was there but she couldn't say anything to our therapist. She really wanted to. But Drake told her no, so she didn't. I remember Jojo acting like herself and the therapist just looked very surprised and I could see she tried to cover up her surprise with a positive expression so idk what was going on there. Yeah, a lot to unpack I guess.

It's so difficult for some people to realize / accept they have DID that therapists are sometimes weary of disclaiming it's a possible diagnosis. It's always a positive surprise to see a part/alter come out and talk to a therapist because it means there is a trust bond between patient and therapist, and this trust bond is important for the therapy to move forward.

IFS is nice for DID as long as you do the "DID version" of IFS. It's a bit different than the "regular version". I'm not very knowledgable in this regard tho but maybe you'll find some books or articles about IFS for DID.

LavenderRose1312 wrote:I have a lot of love for Jojo, the little girl. She's sweet and idk, I feel protective over her, but I dont knpw about the others just yet. I've been trying to get to know them a little better. I found a tumblr blog that they wrote together and have been looking over it to try to learn more.

Figuring things out can take time. One step at a time and it's okay if you're not ready yet for some of the things. It's okay to tell the others that you love them but are not ready yet to know. Janina Fisher have some chapters about that in "Healing the fragmented selves..."

LavenderRose1312 wrote:Anyway, im sorry for this absurdly long reply

It's a forum, it's MEANT for "absurdly long replies"