Incredibly Sad. Incredibly Bitter. Interminably Long

From the bottom of my heart, I know you are suffering so much because you explain yourself so well in dealing with the pain, and I care. It's easy to get angry about the fact that you are depressed. You have every right to be mad, frustrated, or disappointed in all matters. I've been there. I could talk to you in great length about my many years of depression. 25 years with depression at different levels of depression. Not all at one time, but intermittently and throughout the years. Alongside that I also had manic episodes and other things. My reply is not about me. It's about me caring and wanting you to feel better. Sending cyber hugs your way.

I replied to one of your posts in the past:

depression/topic188598.html

Maybe you didn't find it helpful.

I'm neither and atheist nor a theist, so, not sharing your worldview, I suspect I wouldn't have much to say you could relate to. As I've written before on this forum, people with depression/dysthymia/whatever often lack energy, focus and motivation, so it's unrealistic to expect them to read long, rambling posts and write thoughtful replies to them.

I'm very skeptical of the mental illness models in psychiatry and modern psychology which are the implicit foundation of this forum and its rules, so I don't want to waste too much of my limited time and energy trying to offer suggestions to you, and then have it censored or deleted by moderators.

I don't think it's "compassionate" to coddle and simper over people. I think it feeds their sense of entitlement and dependency. It weakens them. All life is struggle. Accept that, accept your responsibility for your own well-being, and you've set foot on the journey you need to take. You are your own best therapist, your own savior. The journey will be perilous and arduous, but it's the only one that really works.

I read about melancholic social outcasts, like Emily Dickenson, Kafka, Ambrose Bierce, and many others. I read novels and short stories, and watch movies and documentaries that speak to my angst. I've found this very helpful. I'm very much into existentialism, in the broader sense, (not so much Sartre or Camus). Schopenhauer intrigues me.

Other than your frustration and misanthropy, your anxiety and depression, I have no clear idea what your demons are. I don't see them. It's not other people's responsibility to know what they are. You have to work on describing them to yourself and others, with language as your tool. (My advice: Don't avoid "labels" as a matter of course.)

I've done my best to help you. If I haven't, my apologies. Good luck.

hi OblivionIsAtHand,

nice username - very apt.

i have to say that having read through the entirety of your original post (and this thread), i can't find a single tangible reason for your depression - not one. the most tangible reason is the paranoid personality disorder that you mention. your world view is almost unwaveringly negative. in other words, it seems to me that your depression is, for all intents and purposes, entirely self-induced.

now, i'm quietly confident that you'll find some way to dismiss this. after all, i'm just another one of those uncaring, uneducated, un-whatever-you-like people that populate this world - you know, the ones that you hate - so, why would you listen to me.

you've created the person that you are. you've cut yourself off from all possible help. what could anyone possibly do to change that.

think about it.

very best wishes,

shock (the monkey).

PS: you are what you believe. and you believe everyone else to be bad. and, by the same token, you believe yourself to be bad too. who wouldn't be depressed with that kind of logic hanging over them. but people are neither good nor bad. they are what they choose to be. and you could be too.

I'm not sure if my response will register with you. I experienced deep depression as a kind of numbness to everything in my life, including loved ones and others who were mere acquaintances. Like nothing mattered, a kind of flatness/deadness to my life. No joy, just mental pain.

Sometimes therapists help, and maybe not. What I found helpful was literature written by those who've been thru what I went thru.

When I read William Styron's book about his own depression, "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness", it truly resonated with me. He is the author of several novels, "Sophie's Choice", "The Confessions of Nat Turner", for examples. Dunno if reading 'Darkness Visible" will help. Styron didn't talk about "solutions" so much as describing what it feels like experiencing depression. I certainly connected with what he wrote about his depressive episode, which lasted several years in his later life.

As an aside, I try to relate, however weak we are compared to to what my FIL must experience every day of his life since 18 years, he is dependent on others to shower, dress, transfer to toilet, wheelchair, bed, etc. and feed him, since he was 67 yrs old when he retired just a few months before. He was a fit and proud man before a brain tumor crisis brought him down. It's an unpleasant and painful perspective about the human condition. It brought my husband's family down to its knees, not to mention the costs of health and long-term care.

Sorry if this isn't what fits your bill, but try to realize everyone carries burdens that others don't know about.

what i don't get here is the anger, the condemnation and the entitlement. depression tends to be the reserve of introverts that turn their problems in on themselves and implode, rather than extroverts that turn their problems on everyone else and explode.

i'm rather doubting that my attempt to reflect your world view back at you will have any affect other than to further embitter you. that said, i do really think you need to take a good look at your basic beliefs about people. it's said that other people are mirrors - they reflect ourselves back at us. and that's very true. smile at someone and chances are they'll smile back. scowl and they'll probably run for cover.

perhaps, to some extent, you're caught up in an endogenous depression of some kind. if so, it just doesn't fit with my experience whatsoever. and that doesn't mean that your world view isn't making it much worse either. i absolutely believe that it is.

quietgirl 2538 wrote:

From the bottom of my heart, I know you are suffering so much because you explain yourself so well in dealing with the pain, and I care. It's easy to get angry about the fact that you are depressed. You have every right to be mad, frustrated, or disappointed in all matters. I've been there. I could talk to you in great length about my many years of depression. 25 years with depression at different levels of depression. Not all at one time, but intermittently and throughout the years. Alongside that I also had manic episodes and other things. My reply is not about me. It's about me caring and wanting you to feel better. Sending cyber hugs your way.

I thank you very much for that; I'm feeling a little better today--emphasis on 'a little'. And sorry you've had your own struggles. I wish all the best to you too.

heracles wrote:

I replied to one of your posts in the past:

depression/topic188598.html

Maybe you didn't find it helpful.

Yes, thank you for that! I just read that recently because I had assumed the thread dead in the past. I was thinking what an intelligent and thoughtful response. I really did connect with on it on some level, and that's a rarity. Quite the contrary: I found it helpful.

As I've written before on this forum, people with depression/dysthymia/whatever often lack energy, focus and motivation, so it's unrealistic to expect them to read long, rambling posts and write thoughtful replies to them.

Understandable. Although I figured there was just as many posters who were not deeply in the throes of it and could shed some light on it. Perhaps not.

I don't think it's "compassionate" to coddle and simper over people. I think it feeds their sense of entitlement and dependency. It weakens them. All life is struggle. Accept that, accept your responsibility for your own well-being, and you've set foot on the journey you need to take. You are your own best therapist, your own savior. The journey will be perilous and arduous, but it's the only one that really works.

What you think of as coddling is probably what I imagine to be compassion. And to me, compassion is usually the best route. So that's where I'd fundamentally disagree. I also don't necessarily agree with 'you are your own best therapist, your own savior.' While it's true we do have to do a fair bit of self-promoting, I think external sources can very much be a savior as opposed to your own internal world.

I read novels and short stories, and watch movies and documentaries that speak to my angst.

Right. Don't we all? Documentaries are what provide me with the most stimulation with my rapidly dwindling stimuli.

I have no clear idea what your demons are. I don't see them. It's not other people's responsibility to know what they are. You have to work on describing them to yourself and others, with language as your tool. (My advice: Don't avoid "labels" as a matter of course.)

Of course, which is why I had to use so many words to convey something that I consider very intricate. If not even a few problems were evident, then it's back to the drawing board with me. I should probably make it even longer. I've got hundreds of pages in Microsoft Word detailing my issues, but that wouldn't be very conducive to anything.

realityhere wrote:

Sometimes therapists help, and maybe not.

I've currently been through 8 therapists (or possibly 7 now, can't recall). My most recent I thought was great at first - it genuinely was great first. But then she became less and less compassionate, and stated she didn't really have to be as such. Just recently she thought it'd be okay if I were to act more sociopathic-like in nature, and to worry about myself above all others. I find features of her to be incredibly amoral, and I can't always put my finger on why. I doubt I will see her anymore - although it's possible - and I've run out of money. I won't be able to see a therapist for a bit, outside of the free therapists which I am highly skeptical about. In the meantime I'm waiting on SSI: whether I'm accepted or rejected.

What I found helpful was literature written by those who've been thru what I went thru.

It's always some piece of literature that accurately sums up what I'm thinking too. Something I can relate with deeply. But then there's rarely a solution offered to it. Every once in a while though, something will emerge out of the blue on the internet that sums up everything and even provides help in the process. Maybe this is because I more aptly was able to navigate search engines in the past and scope out these esoteric nuggets of information hidden out there on the internet.

Ever read any David Foster Wallace? He has developed some kind of backlash and there are a good many who consider him the poster boy for pseudo-intellectualism and self-indulgent writing, but then there's also a fanbase of rabid followers. Needless to say, he's an author who so eloquently sums up neuroses better than a lot of writers. Of course there's Kafka and Philip Roth and so forth, but I really, really connect with his descriptions of angst.

As an aside, I try to relate, however weak we are compared to to what my FIL must experience every day of his life since 18 years, he is dependent on others to shower, dress, transfer to toilet, wheelchair, bed, etc. and feed him, since he was 67 yrs old when he retired just a few months before. He was a fit and proud man before a brain tumor crisis brought him down. It's an unpleasant and painful perspective about the human condition. It brought my husband's family down to its knees, not to mention the costs of health and long-term care.

Man, I'm very sorry to hear that. I mean that sincerely. I can't even fathom the pain behind all of that - that bleak situation - and thanks for sharing that as it gives me some perspective.

shock_the_monkey wrote:

hi OblivionIsAtHand,

nice username - very apt.

Thanks, but I'd have to say not a lot of thought went into it. The name is simply a cheatcode on a video game I used to play. Nothing so cryptic about it.



My meds seem to be failing me. Many of my meds have not worked, but some have helped a little. I still put a great deal of confidence in medicine, despite the taboo. So I'm without therapy and without working meds now. I'm becoming more and more of a one-man army, my thoughts eating each other alive, because of my codependency on therapy as of late. The suicidal ideation comes and goes.




So I'll again break down some of the biggest current problems right now (again, in case they were missed.):
1) I require answers and information. 2) I am fearful of asking questions (at least outside of a therapist's office) now due to the extent I've been mocked for questions. So, (3) I can't receive the information that I need because of the fear of asking questions and the limitations that internet search engines provide. (4) I am so skeptical of information due to the extent of biases, falsehoods, and other information that poses as truth. And it's hard to determine a way of validating this information; all this further complicates things---in addition to the bitterness that I receive from asking these questions. Needless to say, yes, sometimes intuition can guide me. (5) My problems are so abstruse and complicated that I have an abundance of questions. (6) My lack of ability to articulate things makes it harder to ask these questions, and others' inability to listen/read (with the exception of some) makes it further difficult. (7) It's hard to determine where I should be asking these questions, as there's a dearth of professionals in matters related to Psychology on forums like this. (8) As stated, the stuff I talk about is multi-tiered with many different angles, and thus I have to type about a lot. Can't just be concise--only occasionally can I be this way. So, indeed, others will malign you for a lack of knowledge, but they are practically never nice in sharing this knowledge. So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

this sounded interesting ...

family-support/topic45020-100.html#p2134392

... note the bit about "depression with paranoid flavour".