Depression and Religion. May trigger.

Nice post!

I would go out as far as to say that 'praying' can be a cause of depression because it's a value system that doesn't reinforce the individual. A religious person facing redundancy might be inclined to pray about the situation and seek advice from a pastor or vicar or whatever. The vicar might also suggest that they pray about it and so they pray. But when the person loses their job anyway, it could cause depression because they lose self-image over that, they might begin to question 'Why did God allow this to happen?' and so on and so forth.

'You need a hobby' is an unhelpful statement, but is fairly on the right track. What I find when I talk to depressed people all the time is they seem to lack self-image, they don't seem to know who they are. And a lot of the time (not all the time) this seems to stem from having a lack of hobbies, passions, interests and so on. For example if you have a guy who is a salesman, he sells jewellery, and he's done it all his life, he's all about the game: which is selling jewellery to him, when he's eventually forced to retire he could become depressed, because he loses his self-image as a Jewellery Salesman and has nothing to reinforce him.

But if he's also a Musician in a band, a painter and a rock climber, he's less likely to become depressed if he loses the Jewellery Sales because he has the other interests to reinforce him. That's not to say he wont be disappointed over the retirement, or miss selling Jewellery, but the likelihood that it will lead to depression is greatly reduced.

The other statements are just silly and unhelpful.

-- Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:16 pm --

RememberRonni wrote:^^ great post

Can you imagine anyone saying those things to someone who's just been diagnosed with cancer or diabetes?

People do, though. People say things like 'I'm sure you'll get better, have faith in yourself!' But that doesn't do anything because cancer doesn't care whether you have faith in yourself, it just keeps multiplying.

What I would do to encourage someone with cancer is keep furnishing them with information about the latest breakthroughs and developments in the areas of Treating and Understanding cancer as a whole. I find that the more genuine information a person has to wrap their brain around, the better the results are, whereas vicarious stuff like 'have faith' tends not to do much that is positive.

Eisenheim the Great wrote:I would go out as far as to say that 'praying' can be a cause of depression because it's a value system that doesn't reinforce the individual.

It reaffirms their personal connection with the world and higher powers. They are part of something greater than themselves. That appears powerful to me, in an existing value system. And seems to be reinforcing both individuality and community.

But when the person loses their job anyway, it could cause depression because they lose self-image over that

I think you may be using a problematic definition of depression. It's more than just "feeling crap about a bad event." I know the media often uses Depression interchangeably with "bad day / the blues / sadness / melancholy / grief" etc. And I want to be inclusive about people's feelings. But neither do I want to downplay how MUCH people with depression are dealing with.

they might begin to question 'Why did God allow this to happen?' and so on and so forth.

This seems to me an atheistic point of view. It's rather missing the point of believing in the first place. People of religion may draw strength from the idea that God will open another door for them. Or that God is protecting that person from the sucky aspects of the job. Or harm that could have arisen in future. That doesn't mean it's easy to deal with. Or that they might not be stressed and / or depressed. But I think the number of people who "blame God as they become depressed." Is likely to be far, far smaller than the people who gain strength and comfort. From their connection with Universal Love at its source.


Disclaimer- I'm also an atheist. But with believer friends. Who I wouldn't disrespect with this chain of assumptions.

Ada wrote:It reaffirms their personal connection with the world and higher powers. They are part of something greater than themselves. That appears powerful to me, in an existing value system. And seems to be reinforcing both individuality and community.

Except that it doesn't reinforce because the 'higher power' has and will not save them from redundancy. It would be better to say 'Well you can pray if you want, but the best thing to do is gather your affairs together and start searching for a new job'.

I think you may be using a problematic definition of depression. It's more than just "feeling crap about a bad event." I know the media often uses Depression interchangeably with "bad day / the blues / sadness / melancholy / grief" etc. And I want to be inclusive about people's feelings. But neither do I want to downplay how MUCH people with depression are dealing with.

I've studied depression in depth as part of my PhD in euthenics and I find that in almost all cases, the depression is generated by a loss or lack of self-image. There are other factors, but that is by far the main one.

This seems to me an atheistic point of view. It's rather missing the point of believing in the first place. People of religion may draw strength from the idea that God will open another door for them. Or that God is protecting that person from the sucky aspects of the job. Or harm that could have arisen in future. That doesn't mean it's easy to deal with. Or that they might not be stressed and / or depressed. But I think the number of people who "blame God as they become depressed." Is likely to be far, far smaller than the people who gain strength and comfort. From their connection with Universal Love at its source

The only 'ist' that I am is a scientist. Whether or not any particular god exists is irrelevant to me since I work only on what evidence suggests. What evidence suggests in the case we're talking about here, is that telling someone to pray about it will not save their job and could lead to depression as a result, whereas a more realistic approach in telling them/helping them to find a new job before the redundancy takes place is much more effective overall.

Disclaimer- I'm also an atheist. But with believer friends. Who I wouldn't disrespect with this chain of assumptions.[/quote]

Eisenheim the Great wrote:Except that it doesn't reinforce because the 'higher power' has and will not save them from redundancy. It would be better to say 'Well you can pray if you want, but the best thing to do is gather your affairs together and start searching for a new job'.

I don't understand why this is any kind of either / or. Or why that approach is "best." Praying, for people of belief. May help them be more successful in looking for a new job. Whether that's due to Divine guidance. Or because they're feeling positive about moving towards something better.

It reminds me of this- http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html Some believers might be that daft. But the vast majority appreciate that living a life of faith isn't meant to be passive. Talk to a pastor / rabbi / imam etc AS WELL AS a career adviser. Pray AND see a doctor. And so on.

What evidence suggests in the case we're talking about here, is that telling someone to pray about it will not save their job and could lead to depression as a result, whereas a more realistic approach in telling them/helping them to find a new job before the redundancy takes place is much more effective overall.

Citation, please.

Ada wrote:

Eisenheim the Great wrote:Except that it doesn't reinforce because the 'higher power' has and will not save them from redundancy. It would be better to say 'Well you can pray if you want, but the best thing to do is gather your affairs together and start searching for a new job'.

I don't understand why this is any kind of either / or. Or why that approach is "best." Praying, for people of belief. May help them be more successful in looking for a new job. Whether that's due to Divine guidance. Or because they're feeling positive about moving towards something better.

It reminds me of this- http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html Some believers might be that daft. But the vast majority appreciate that living a life of faith isn't meant to be passive. Talk to a pastor / rabbi / imam etc AS WELL AS a career adviser. Pray AND see a doctor. And so on.

I think that when you're trying to free someone from depression, though, one should steer clear of vicarious support mechanisms and try to ground the patient in the 'real world'. By this I mean suggesting only 'realistic' methods that have an observable and measurable basis in reality, such as taking action. You can't really remedy depression by supporting and encouraging existing methods of thinking, since it's those methods of thinking that culminated in the depression in the first place (it's all cumulative).

What evidence suggests in the case we're talking about here, is that telling someone to pray about it will not save their job and could lead to depression as a result, whereas a more realistic approach in telling them/helping them to find a new job before the redundancy takes place is much more effective overall.

Citation, please.

I misworded this part. What I meant is that the more genuine information you give to a person, the better off they'll be. If you give them only vicarious values and support mechanisms, when these don't work out they have no real information to work with and so tend to look inward for the answer and, thus, not find it.

Bear in mind that I work in Euthenics and Human Behavioural Sciences, not Psychology. I actually reject quite a lot of what Psychologists claim and believe.