Define Depression

I want to know. What is YOUR definition of Depression?
What is the difference between depression and sadness, in your opinion?
I sometimes feel like there's a 'threshold' I have to cross to feel genuine happiness, and when I experience that, I never lasts more then a few minutes, t most.
Why is that the case? If I'm capable of feeling joy, why do I feel mostly empty and unhappy? Do I create my own depression?
I look around, are school, work, my friends and family and can't help but wonder why most of them are always laughing, they get excited, they have spark in their eyes, and I can only experience this happiness for quite literally a minute or two at a time out of hours or days of emptiness.
Any thoughts? I want to understand somewhat what is going on; what you guys feel and experience.

I guess most people would describe their mood in a spectrum. Let's just take the scale from -10 to +10 and map it.
Personally I would define anything from 0 to -3 as "sadness", slowly beginning the depression range.
My normal mood is between -3 and to -6 usually, when getting up is harder, appetite, motivation and libido diminished or absent at all.
From -6 to -10 is what I call "depressed" in my terms, when I am really unable to do and feel anything at all and got frequent suicide ideation.

Guess most "healthy" people alternate around -5 to +5 and even got a slight positive mean at +1 or +2, but it's really hard to measure this stuff, so it's fairly blah.

I actually think that the threshold you mentions is a good description as it matches my own experience from earlier years and rare occasions of having a better mood (>0) which greatly shifts one's perception of laughing and happy people. Usually I am just pissed off by those.

When I feel sad, as opposed to depressed, I experience it as a real tangible emotion, related to outside events, and I am able to express that emotion, reach out to people and find a release in expressing it. On the other hand, when I'm depressed, it can occur from nowhere, and is entirely unrelated to outside events. I feel empty, numb inside, see the negative side of everything and withdraw from the world until it passes, which usually happens as my moods are quite cyclical. I feel lethargic and unmotivated and my self confidence, which is usually high, plummets to zero. I also find that I can't quite grasp things intellectually in the way that I can when my mood is normal, high, or just sad.

An interesting question. Yes, for me sadness is a feeling, related to external situations as masquerade said. Depression is not. Depression for me is a complete numbness, a devoid lack of feeling or interest in anything. There is no motivation, no want to function, there is just emptiness, a black never-ending pit of nothing, it's a place of horror you feel you can't get out of. That is my experience of depression, which I believe is indescribable and unknowable to those who haven't felt it.

Asto wrote:I guess most people would describe their mood in a spectrum. Let's just take the scale from -10 to +10 and map it.
Personally I would define anything from 0 to -3 as "sadness", slowly beginning the depression range.
My normal mood is between -3 and to -6 usually, when getting up is harder, appetite, motivation and libido diminished or absent at all.
From -6 to -10 is what I call "depressed" in my terms, when I am really unable to do and feel anything at all and got frequent suicide ideation.

Guess most "healthy" people alternate around -5 to +5 and even got a slight positive mean at +1 or +2, but it's really hard to measure this stuff, so it's fairly blah.

I actually think that the threshold you mentions is a good description as it matches my own experience from earlier years and rare occasions of having a better mood (>0) which greatly shifts one's perception of laughing and happy people. Usually I am just pissed off by those.

Very interesting. Yes, we can all measure our mood on a scale. The accuracy of our scores will vary though, because, for example: a person that's never been 'depressed' who had a bad day may rate themselves like a -5 to -7, because that's their 'depression'. They may normally say they're a +5 to +7, so when they suddenly feel sad it might be a total shock to them. For me, when I feel happy, it's a shock to me, so if I have a few genuine laughs during the day and feel I've had a fun time with friends, I might rate how I feel a +7 or 8, but really, I'm actually feeling like a +2 or +3. We all have our own interpretations of happiness and sadness, I think. This is why I am somewhat confused on how you can define depression. You say you experience suicidal ideation- that would be a clear sign you are depressed, and on the opposite spectrum, if you were to have a day full of laughter and excitability, that's a clear sign of happiness. I find that when I get depressed, things literally look different- colours are less visible, things smell different (I smell this sort of foul scent, I can't explain it) and nothing affects me positively. It also hurts to smile. People who laugh a lot do annoy me, but only because I am jealous. It's like I am learning how to laugh more. For a very long time I thought laughter was something you forced. Now, I genuinely laugh sometimes, but not as often as I like, and I usually laugh at inappropriate times that don't make sense to the other person, I guess because most of the time I feel detached and distant. It's like you have to learn how to go with the flow but it's very exhausting, especially when most of the time I have to try to be even remotely enthused.

If I'm capable of feeling joy, why do I feel mostly empty and unhappy?

you very much are capable. think of it like this, the joy is deep inside you lost in the emptiness and unhappiness, you just have to get to it and dig it out which can be easy in some ways, but very difficult in many others and takes time to get too.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater thar sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."
But I say unto you, they are inseparable.
Together they come, and when one sits, alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.
http://www.katsandogz.com/onjoy.html

Do I create my own depression?

it's possible somewhat, but i would say mostly no. for example with me, there are many ways i contributed to depression and fueled it, but mostly it's the depression that was with me and i have had to break out of the habits/cycles which is journey in a way, and one i'm still on. so it's a fairly complex question.

I look around, are school, work, my friends and family and can't help but wonder why most of them are always laughing, they get excited, they have spark in their eyes

i have felt like that too. i think it's helpful to know that there can be helpful that can look the most happy out of anyone, yet still be the most depressed. some people are good at hiding it.

BonjourJakk wrote:This is why I am somewhat confused on how you can define depression.

Well, first of all, you are totally right that it's hard to measure subjective conditions, but I assume that there are objective bounds to the mood of an individual, even if this person was never close to (either positive or negative) any border. It just makes it difficult to measure mood on the basis of verbal reports and my attempt was not to define a general scale for mood, but just to describe how I perceive my own personal mood over the years.
Ofc I may be totally biased and what I perceive to be "mildly depressed" or somewhat "blehh" or "-5" is actually supposed to be the normal human mood state and I am just hell of a sissy. Nobody will ever know unless there will be more objective ways to measure mood and I hope there will be in future.
The only thing to compare to is my own memory of my childhood, of states that, in retrospection, I perceive as not so dark, negative and hopeless as I have been for more than 10 years now.
Makes it all hard to get a clear and realistic view on yourself and your mood.

bigmike7104 wrote:i have felt like that too. i think it's helpful to know that there can be helpful that can look the most happy out of anyone, yet still be the most depressed. some people are good at hiding it.

I guess I am quite good at hiding my grief and pain in general, as I had to learn that from very early in my life to glance off bullies, that were on me for literally my whole childhood and adolescence, as much as possible. My parents were the neglectful type that didn't give much $#%^ about anything in my life, so eventually they never knew what was going on with me and still don't know as I see no point in telling them anyway.

So, I can pretend to be happy and laugh all day, but it's almost never honest. It's just a pathetic mind game I play every time as most people can't deal with my cynical and pessimistic actual self, but I stopped caring after all these years anyway.

I am on Fluoxetine for 4 weeks now and apart from the side effects including worse suicide ideations, insomnia and an episode of the weirdest visual and audio hallucinations I ever had in my life (although could be unrelated to fluoxetine, idk), I noticed that I actually burst out laughing over stuff more than I did without being able to control myself (which I usually do). So maybe that's a good sign of better mood or maybe that's just a general loss of control over myself and I am on the brink to psychosis.

I also rarely suffer migraine attacks (with aura) and usually get them a few times a year, but I had 3 attacks in the last 4 weeks (for reasons I don't know), but I guess it's also related to Fluoxetine, so maybe that stuff is really messing with my brain right now. Still funny experience though.

I have been depressed my entire life, with periods of major depression. I do not have crying spells which throws my psychiatrist for a loop, but I believe I've worked hard my entire life to not feel the pain, so I can't cry even if I want to.

Major depression for me involves my arms and legs feeling like dead weight....I couldn't get outside to walk even if I wanted to. It's getting in the shower and not being able to shampoo your hair because you can't hold up your arms that long. It's constantly dreaming about how you wish you could leave this planet. It's a sense of impending doom and despair, like sitting in a dark room with no sound -- nothing in the external world can shake you out of your state. It's sitting on the couch with a full bladder wishing you could get up and make it to the restroom -- it takes a great deal of effort just to talk yourself into making it to the toilet.

Sadness for me involves emotions, where major depression makes me hopelessly numb and despondent. I was sad at my grandmother's funeral years ago -- I cried in the chapel during the service......that was sadness. When sad, it's possible to be comforted in some small way, like by a hug or by someone removing you from the situation and buying you lunch or something. Grieving over a loss can heal sadness. Depression cannot be relieved by external means, and there is nothing to grieve over with depression as it is usually a debilitating state that comes out of nowhere for no reason at all.

That would be my personal differentiation between sadness and depression.

FormerOptimist wrote:Major depression for me involves my arms and legs feeling like dead weight....I couldn't get outside to walk even if I wanted to. It's getting in the shower and not being able to shampoo your hair because you can't hold up your arms that long. It's constantly dreaming about how you wish you could leave this planet. It's a sense of impending doom and despair, like sitting in a dark room with no sound -- nothing in the external world can shake you out of your state. It's sitting on the couch with a full bladder wishing you could get up and make it to the restroom -- it takes a great deal of effort just to talk yourself into making it to the toilet.

I don't know if anyone else can relate, but to me this is a quite good description, especially the point that you have to force yourself to do the simplest things like taking a piss or getting a shower.
To me the worst every day is getting out of bed and do all that pointless "necessary" stuff like showering, brushing your teeth, eating some stuff so you don't get pain in your stomach some hours later,etc. to fulfill some minimum standard that is expected to function in daily life. It's just a constant war with your own body, with "yourself". It's really exhausting.

I agree, it's a constant war with yourself. It's exhausting. When you feel better, it doesn't last. I always get dragged back down. It's not like I think life sucks. There's all kinds of amazing things in life. But oftentimes, routine things are very exhausting when depressed. I'm kind of confused about my own depression because I seem to go 'up and down' all day. For example, today...
Woke up. Felt okay.
Shoveled driveway, felt good. (exercise, accomplishment)
Played with dog (felt good)
Made a salad. (felt sad, borderline depressed.)
Talked to granddad (felt neautral)
Went out with granddad (felt okay)
Came home, browsed the net (felt sad to neutral to good and back to sad and depressed at times)
Played the piano (felt okay)
Did basically nothing (felt neautral)
Wrote a story (felt good, then suddenly paranoid/anxious)
Now I feel neutral.

Just an example of the wide range of emotions I'm always feeling. I'm looking for consistancy!

-- Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:05 am --

Asto, bursting out laughing is not a bad thing. I'm sorry to hear about your hallucinations though. Does anything help with your hallucinations?