When is Hope really False-Hope?

Most, if not all of us, “hope” for some future outcome. Based on faith, we have reasonable confidence that a desired expectation, not within our control, will occur. It gives us an optimistic view, motivation, and even peace to some degree. Of course, there is an assumption that we put in as much effort as is possible, but our effort alone does not determine the outcome. When is "hope"“false-hope”? When do you stop praying, working towards, patiently await, “hope. As disappointments mount and time passes, when do you accept reality and see the mounting evidence and public opinion that indicate the expected outcome will not occur.
We all want love and connectedness; belonging, being understood, being accepted. I left an unhappy long term marriage with the intention of ending the numbness and sadness; giving us both a chance at real happiness. After all, we had a third of our lives left. 3 years after the divorce, I was comfortable and ready to move on. For the last 2 years, my hope of having shared happiness, connection, in both romantic love and friendship has been consistently denied. I learned that I am now “too old” for romance (male view). Women don’t know why I want romantic love at “my age”, and are basically unavailable or unreliable in developing friendships, for a variety of reasons.

Perhaps I was delusional and my hope was false-hope. The consistent message I receive – including from therapists - is romantic love and connection are for younger women. At 60+, it seems I am supposed to be invisible, join a white-haired crafters group (I am not even gray yet), exist on old memories, or prepare for death. I can’t accept that. I never expected life after work (exec position) to be upside down.
When is “hope” really “false-hope”?

I don't know how to answer your question. I think though sometimes we 'patiently await' for things to change, and that's sometimes the problem, we need hope but we also need to help move things along. I also do not think that at any age one is 'too old' for hope, I actually think the older you are, the more life experience one has, and therefore you have much to give both to friends and potential lovers. Perhaps you could seek out groups for those that share your hobbies or interests? Perhaps an evening class you have always wanted to take? I definitely don't think life is over at any age. Try not to give up hope, hang on to it as fiercely as you can.

Best wishes.

I thought awhile about this and all I can say without any doubt: Every hope is false-hope.
I will lay out why.

Basing on this definition by wikipedia "Hope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life.", which you will hopefully (haha ) agree on, it actually states that hope is a belief. A belief (in a positive outcome) a person can have only in absence of knowledge (of the future). Naturally, absence of absolute knowledge about the future is always true, but there are many things that are actually predictable and be assumed as knowledge about what will (probably, statistically) happen. In these cases hope isn't needed (or not even possible), as you know what and with how much chance something (or its complement) will happen.
My point here is that in order to have hope, you need the absence of any (reasonable) predictability which can either take place because of oneself ignorance or because too many parameters are involved to make a reasonable prediction.
The remaining question is in a general case of not knowing any of the involved parameters (being ignorant to a maximum) how likely it is that an outcome, you are neither (at least not consciously) working towards to actively nor having any insight about when working against that outcome, will be positive for you?
Maybe one can get some hints about this question when asking another question. How likely is a positive outcome for you if there are people that are actively working towards a positive outcome for them? As there is also no principle that the world is just and everyone "gets what he deserves" (you know what I mean), I think it's reasonable to assume that it's more likely that you will have a negative outcome given any situation you are in and have no knowledge and no predictability (to base your decisions on) about your future.

So I think by being in a situation in which hope can be possible, you are eventually already in a situation you have no reasonable control over and this won't (in most cases) lead to a positive outcome for you.

Although you could argue that hope is about believing in a positive outcome in spite of knowing that a positive outcome is highly unlikely, but then I would rather replace that word with foolishness.

Asto wrote: Every hope is false-hope.

That explains a lot. If there's no hope, then are you hopeless?

Ian Reynir wrote:That explains a lot. If there's no hope, then are you hopeless?

So, in an attempt to troll me, can you at least properly reconstruct what I actually said instead of putting words into my mouth?

The quote still says: "Every hope is false-hope."

That doesn't imply that hope does not exist, nor does it imply that false-hope is no hope.
It just says that there is no distinction between hope and false-hope to be made, which means that they are synonyms and there is no reason to treat them as different things as the thread questions suggests.

So please, if you really want to troll me, at least do it with some wit and not with such a lame attempt.

Hey Pat,

When I think about hope, I really don't think of it as being something akin to prayer or wishing that things would get better. Instead, I think being hopeful is having an awareness that there are things that you can do to feel better. In your case, I really think there is hope because there are many things that you can do to feel better like talking to someone about your sadness, loneliness or hopelessness, doing something you find fulfilling or even just going for a walk to kick your raphe nuclei into action. As for your poor experiences with therapists, I find that this is really common and can sometimes turn out to be a positive experience because it reaffirms that you really do know more about yourself than a stranger and that you also have a better understanding of how to cope with how you feel than someone looking from the outside in. Also, I have to disagree with your therapists with respect to finding a loving and meaningful relationship. I think you can really find that at any age and I'm sure there are people within your age cohort who also want to find a partner. Maybe you could try some of the online dating sites? (granted, there are some weirdos and liars )

Anyways, hope you feel better Pat. Take care and best wishes.

Pat wrote:Most, if not all of us, “hope” for some future outcome. Based on faith, we have reasonable confidence that a desired expectation, not within our control, will occur.

I find this odd. Here's why:

I never expected life after work (exec position) to be upside down.
When is “hope” really “false-hope”?

If you asked someone in your organisation if something was going to work and they said "I hope so", you'd probably fire them on the spot or at least haul them across the coals for not taking responsibility for the outcome.

Exec? Really?
You of all people should know that hope is the poor man's wish, and if you want something it's pointless just sitting back and waiting for it to come.

It's simple; be the person you'd want to be with and if you can't be happy on your own you'll never be happy with anyone else.

Asto wrote: Every hope is false-hope.

Thank you Asto. I have argued similarly: Hope and False-Hope are the same thing. It is amazing how when I say that, I get immediate arguments that it is only my depression talking. No so.
I really appreciate the thought you put into your answer. The future cannot be controlled by anyone - there are always unexpected factors. But I do think that when I put as much effort as I can into something, and the results are consistently negative - it is time to look as alternatives. It's like making a bad investment and continuing to put money into it, regardless of the returns.

Infinite_Jester wrote:As for your poor experiences with therapists, I find that this is really common and can sometimes turn out to be a positive experience because it reaffirms that you really do know more about yourself than a stranger .... I'm sure there are people within your age cohort who also want to find a partner. Maybe you could try some of the online dating sites? (granted, there are some weirdos and liars

Yes, it seems I make progress by reading, reading, reading and maybe finding something that is appropriate to me. Then, I inform the therapist. On occassion, I've given references to therapists. It's been hard to find someone to talk with, so I concluded that the most beneficial contribution I have from the therapists is having someone to talk with. Very expensive chat time.
I've tried several online dating sites primarily because I have little contact with men outside of the workplace (and I foolishly retired early, then divorced). It is here that I was told my age was an "obstacle", or where I am clearly filtered out on an age sort. Annonymity and lack of courtesy seem to go hand-in-hand. I saw a Dr Phil show 24 Jan 2013 (a fluke as I channel surfed) where a 60+ Yr old woman "Dawn" was "in love" with an online scammer to the tune of $30,000US and refused to believe he was a scammer. As I read comments from the show, there were many other women in that age group who also noted they had similar experiences. I had at least 30 scammers attempt to wooo me, but I became good at identifying and reporting them. The point is, it's sad so many older women are desperate for love and connection, fear that it will elude them, then ignore all reasonable signs of a scam in an attempt to find that love.

justonemoreperson wrote:If you asked someone in your organisation if something was going to work and they said "I hope so", you'd probably fire them on the spot or at least haul them across the coals for not taking responsibility for the outcome.

Exec? Really?
You of all people should know that hope is the poor man's wish, and if you want something it's pointless just sitting back and waiting for it to come.

It's simple; be the person you'd want to be with and if you can't be happy on your own you'll never be happy with anyone else.

Not the most eloquent way of saying it, but yes. Combined with...

Unknown_1 wrote:I don't know how to answer your question. I think though sometimes we 'patiently await' for things to change, and that's sometimes the problem, we need hope but we also need to help move things along. I also do not think that at any age one is 'too old' for hope, I actually think the older you are, the more life experience one has, and therefore you have much to give both to friends and potential lovers. Perhaps you could seek out groups for those that share your hobbies or interests? Perhaps an evening class you have always wanted to take? I definitely don't think life is over at any age. Try not to give up hope, hang on to it as fiercely as you can.

Though hope springs eternal, it is an internal thing, not something you will just have fall out of the sky and hit you in the head. We live in the real world, not fiction land, lol.

But, I have despair bouts where I shutdown. Eating becomes a chore from hell. I've even lost twenty lbs in twenty days before. If i remember correctly despair is the lack of hope, but hope is also a bit of an illusion we thinking mammal's trick ourselves into.

I may sit here trapped in this house because of sociophobia that has grown so great I can't function like I used to plus depression (amongst other things), but, I read a lot and ask a LOT of questions. Loss of hope is when we try to kill ourselves. Loss of hope is when deep in your heart you know nothing will ever get better, so why bother? EVERYTHING ELSE... is not that. What does that mean for the definition of "Hope"? I don't know. But I will tell you... I drift between the two every week, several times a week if i'm unlucky, and I can tell you now... hope springs eternal as long as you are ALIVE. It is the function of our souls. Thus why depression is sometimes called "cancer of the soul."