Drugs are useless

crystal_richardson_ wrote:Jomp, I've noticed that you have a preoccupation with the 'usefulness' of people. do you feel useless deep down because your mother gave you up for adoption at birth, and your valuation of others solely in terms of their 'usefulness' maybe partly stems from this abandonment wound?

I can sort of relate in how I value people due to similar experiences, but do you think it's related to that for you?

No.

ladyswan wrote:JOMP, if you want to debate the existence of depression, head over to the anti-psych forum. People with diagnosed depression or depressive symptoms come here for support. Whether or not you feel this is a legitimate psychiatric disorder is not the point.

Keep it supportive.

I'm done.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:

justonemoreperson wrote:I guarantee that at least 30-40% of people on this forum with depression could do something about it themselves is they weren't so f*cking useless.

Jomp, I've noticed that you have a preoccupation with the 'usefulness' of people. do you feel useless deep down because your mother gave you up for adoption at birth, and your valuation of others solely in terms of their 'usefulness' maybe partly stems from this abandonment wound?

I can sort of relate in how I value people due to similar experiences, but do you think it's related to that for you?

You're very psychoanalytic crystal.

JOMP, as he previously stated, struggled a lot in his youth but was able to overcome this and have a very successful life. He's very aware of his traits and has worked on them. I imagine he finds it hard to relate to people who haven't or can't work their issues out like he has. Jomp is a very driven person and takes pride in his accomplishments so people who appear to be less driven or accomplish very little seem useless to him...weak of will and drive. So if they complain he could find it very frustrating.

At least, that's my guess, since you seem interested. I don't really like doing this sort of thing. I feel like talking about others without being asked to is rude...Oh well, it's already written out.

That's a fair assessment, "Pan"

Certainly I have the expectation that "if I can overcome something that is a built-in condition in my brain then anyone should be able to overcome whatever the f*ck they have going on."
I think this is a fair expectation. People not liking that expectation makes it no less valid.

I think Crystal's assessment was her fumbling attempt at goading me. If not, it makes no sense as she's aware that I had a very good upbringing; my issues as a child were self-generated.
Maybe having weakness at her core makes her apply weakness to everyone's deep-set motivation; some projected 'theory of mind'. I have no idea.

Effectiveness of drugs/pills. No shocker that comes up any time depression is discussed.

I'm one of those people that because of hypersensitivity to side effects (if it makes others drowsy, I'm lucky if I don't sleep 16hrs at a time) and autism pills do weird things to me. SSRI's, both that i have taken, removed all happiness, joy, and excitement, left me sleeping 10-16rhs a day, and made me indifferent to my child's wellbeing. They also left me with permanent emotional numbness. IE, I feel no joy when around people. I feel distant and detached.

Anti anxiety meds, only make me sleepy, and have no effect on the anxiety issues themselves. Increase the dosage? I start hearing things and sleeping 20hrs a day. And I wasn't even up to clinical levels yet.

Last anti depressent, nice stuff, first one to ever have any impact on any part of the depression. You may find ONLY having despair lessened but no effect on suicidal thoughts not useful, but trust me, despair hurts like... whew. Bad news? My genitals are now maimed and i'm in pain every hour of the day, and with no money for the mulitiple surgeries to put them back together (or just flat out amputation as one professaional has suggested I may have to do)...

That said, my beta blocker is some GREAT $#%^. Yeah, does nothing for the thoughts or fear, but at least my hands aren't tingling, i'm not light headed, and I can hear past my pounding blood in my ears. Xanax is a mixed bag on its results. Great sleep aid (doctor has actually told me to use it as such if I need to, lol), but as far as fighting anxiety? Limited. Takes about an hour to help me.

All that said, I have online friends that take ONE pill, first ever, and six months later are stable, great, and come off the pills permanently. Of course none of those have aspergers/autism.

Friend's mom, same one that got cured of depression in six months so I have to wonder about his genetics, took xanax for two years for anxiety, now is mostly cured.

bipolar friends, schizophrenia friends, friends that have gone into psychiatric pri... hospitals and got emergency care, all show radical improvement. What is the typical problem for those that pills do not work for? Cost and availability.

Take me, last anti depressant worked, sort of. First one ever, and no side effects until I came off the anti anxiety pill. Psychiatrist wanted me to increase it the second month on it. Doubled the cost way past my budget abilities. State aid? ahahaha, there is no such thing. Too much money for medicaid, too little to pay for medicare (yes, you buy medicare, it ain't free).

I should be in therapy and have a psychologist. Can't afford them and state does not provide them. Sliding scale places, a joke. All of those I have tried have screamed at me, made jokes about my "problems" and told me to get over it, and tossed me out. When these "professionals" send me home wanting to die, I was told to call 911, but they did nothing to how they treated me.

PIlls CAN work, but if you aren't rich as hell... it is doubtful. Extremely doubtful, because the odds of the first pill at that exact dosage working... is remote. I can't afford 4, 6, 10 pills, like psychiatrist wanted me to do earlier this year. Two anti depressants, and a host of pills for side-effects and those pills side-effects. And then we get into "adjusting" those pills to make them work "better".

Pills can work, but they always come at a price. Sleepiness, weight gain, funny smelling urine, inability to take over the counter meds, organ damage, bleeding, seizures, convulsions, skin disorders (my former anti anxiety pill had the warning, "May cause sudden death"). But... if you are one of those that react well to them, a godsend. My schizo friends could not function without them.

Jomp, I could not get a feel for whether or not you enjoy helping others, but I assume that since you are on this forum and say that you don't need psychological assistance that some part of you must feel a need to do something with the experience, will, and drive that you possess. So, just out of curiosity, have you heard of Positive Psychology? It is the field that I will be going into, and in general you are really working with people to create the structure for those lifestyle changes before ever even considering medication. I think this is so important as so many people underestimate the concept of 'happy by choice'. My sister and mother consider themselves "lifers" for anti-depressants, and I would never argue that because they are both much more balanced and easy to be around when they are on their medication. I, however, was on anti-D's for 3 years recently, have been off for 8mo. and tried to go back on them out of a sort of laziness a week ago with horrible side effects. I found it strange that they actually had a negative affect on me after all the changes I have made in my life. (more frequent exercise, eating healthier, positive outlook). For me this worked, and I think it is a valuable concept that can work for many who go straight to psychiatrists and are handed barrels of xanex, adderall, prozac, etc. However, there are the chemical imbalances in the brain, and I always liked my sister's metaphor.

She said: "It is like I am in the water, trapped under a layer of thick ice. The anti-depressants don't get me out of the water, they merely clear away the ice so that I can swim to the surface."

On a side note, more psychiatrists should be in close communication with patients' therapists or psychologists' to minimize over prescribing.

Feenix wrote:Jomp, I could not get a feel for whether or not you enjoy helping others, but I assume that since you are on this forum and say that you don't need psychological assistance that some part of you must feel a need to do something with the experience, will, and drive that you possess.

I don't particularly want to help, neither do I want to hinder. I sometimes find something of interest and I share it.

There's far too much bollocks being spouted about some conditions though, and I'm pretty convinced that one of the major issues today is that everyone is allowed a voice and everyone should be excused.
No one accepts responsibility for themselves, it can be fixed with a lawyer, a new TV, a pill, whatever.

Nice story though; it's the sort of thing you could send to Reader's Digest. However, the exact same effect could probably exist with a blind placebo.
People talk about "changed chemistry" in the brain without realising that everything you think about changes the brain's chemistry - being angry, having sex, rubbing you nails down a blackboard - all of it changes brain chemistry.
That's why placebos work as effectively as drugs with depression, they fool the person into fixing themselves.

JOMP your hygiene hypothesis of depression is interesting, and one I haven't thought of before.
It is known that depression and physical pain share many of the same chemical pathways, and chronic idiopathic pain is also a common first world problem, as are allergies and cardiovascular disease.

To me it is obvious that there is a huge environmental contribution to the rise in depression. (along with other factors)

There are tons of different depression medications that work in radically different ways, so all this study proves is only certain medications aren't better than placebos.

c6r2QA wrote:There are tons of different depression medications that work in radically different ways, so all this study proves is only certain medications aren't better than placebos.

After the list I've been through and other friends... I'll just agree to disagree and move on >_>

c6r2QA wrote:There are tons of different depression medications that work in radically different ways, so all this study proves is only certain medications aren't better than placebos.

I'm pretty sure they would have considered this and even though there are "tons" out there, most of them exist independently only due to trade names.

There are two basic types:
Mood enhancers that work by increasing the amount of key neurotransmitters in the brain and work short term (and are fairly addictive)
SSRI's which work by stopping the re-uptake of serotonin back into the transmitting dendrite. These are designed to take much longer to work but are supposed to have longer-lasting results.

If you bother to read the entire study you'll see that they used a cross-section of all currently available medications and found that the results were similar.