What do I do now? Possible DDJ Husband threw me out.

My husband threw me out of the house last week and wouldn't let me in to retrieve anything. He packed a bag for me, which included random things and told me to go. Since, I have been staying at hotels and with friends. He is very adamant to know where I am but I refuse to tell him ... (1. because they asked me not to, and (2. out of fear of them being pulled into his delusion. I'm at a loss on what to do now because he absolutely believes there is nothing wrong with him. Below is the history and what's going on now.

Several years ago, my husband started hearing whispered voices on recordings. At first, he thought he had captured me watching porn and using a vibrator. I assured I had done neither and would tell him if I had. I found out a few weeks later that he had been recording me without my knowledge. After that, he accused me of having an affair with his best friend. It was a scary couple of months, but he took meds for a while and seemed kind of back to normal except for his moodiness and irritability. He changed. He wasn't happy anymore.

About nine months ago, it started again and has progressively gotten worse. Here's a run down of the things that have happened and the things he believes:

- I am having an affair with his best friend (he is now going back years and remembering certain looks or things that were said, using this as 'proof').
- He hears my voice and the voice of his best friend say we want to kill him.
- He also hears me getting beaten by his best friend.
- Taken bed sheets for semen analysis.
- Taken underwear for semen analysis.
- Inspected my va-jj because he thought I was having sex as I woke up one morning.
- Audio and video taped me without my knowledge. On the audio tapes, the things he hears are random normal noises but he believes they are of people having sex, whispered voices.
- Asked me to take a drug test because I am on drugs (looking back, I should have never complied. I'm not on drugs).
- I have sex in the next room(s) while he is sleeping, within a a few feet and few minutes of his waking.
- As he is coming in one door, I am quickly shooing different men out the other door.
- I smoke meth.
- We have secret spy cameras all over the place so we can know his every move. This is why he can never catch us.
- We have hacked into his computers, phone, network and stolen all his passwords.
- We move things around and take things (phone, keys, wallet ...) then put them back after a few days.
- Someone (we) constantly breaks into his shed and digs and replaces plastic sheeting on the ceiling.
- I am a prostitute that sneaks men in thru a secret tunnel in the closet (last week he sawed up the floor to find the tunnel).
- His best friend is my pimp.
- I tried to poison him but accidentally gave it to my step-son (he did get sick).

He is very smart and knows all this sounds ridiculous and not normal, but he says he hears what he hears. He's had several episodes where he believes it isn't real and he's back to the wonderful man I married. I got him back for about month, in Oct., then the delusions started again. It comes and goes, this time being the worst. He is seeing a pdoc and taking the lowest dosage of risperdal, which is his 5th medication, but it’s not helping. He won't up the dose as it's too sedating. During a time when he believed all this wasn't true, he allowed me to go with him to his doc. I asked the doc what the diagnosis was and he said it was depression with psychotic episodes. Maybe that's what it was then but I find that hard to believe now. Last week, during all this madness, the doc supposedly said, if me not wanting to tell him where I was was making the situation worse, and the meds weren’t helping, then maybe we should separate. His delusions are fixed on me, no one else. He’s always trying to get me to “tell the truth”. When I tell him the truth, he calls me a liar. I have been called every name in the book. It almost makes me want to give a false confession just to make it stop, but I would never do that. He has also managed to pull the majority of our friends into this delusion. He can hear them on the tapes and in his head too. We are all plotting against him.

What do I do? I never called a 5150 on him because nobody would think he was a danger to himself or others. He is able to work and take care of his son and is normal with everybody else. At home he doesn’t sleep much and hasn’t in the last 4 or so years. On a good night he’ll get maybe 3 hours. He also is super stressed but I think he causes this himself. I did find out recently that he was doing drugs up until the first episode happened a few years ago and he has confessed he has done them this year to keep up with all the things that are happening, but I don’t know for how long. I tried to get him to take a drug test but he refused. I haven’t been able to get him to go for any medical tests, except for a hearing test which showed he has above average hearing, no lie. Was this brought on by the drugs or did the drugs exacerbate an underlying problem? Or does it really matter now? A few months ago when it was bad, his doctor said he feared if they didn’t do something now, then it might be too late. Is it? Will he never come back?

He is the love of my life, my soul mate. I waited a long time for him and I am just so sad and heartbroken. And pissed.

Hi,
I'm sorry to hear you are having to deal with all this. I recommend reporting all these symptoms to the pdoc by calling the office. The doctor needs to know the low dose of the current medication is not working. There really isn't much logical advice to give in this medical situation, other than see it for what it is a delusional medical condition. People who have stayed living with delusional people manage to avoid the forbidden confrontation.
Sunny

Thanks for your reply. I have been emailing his pdoc everything that has been going on. I asked the doc if there was anything he could tell me without breaching patient confidentiality. The only time he's ever written back, he wrote "I cannot tell you anything, but I can read your emails." I even tried asking him questions, that I got from a NAMI support group, that aren't supposed to breach confidentiality, but he didn't respond to those. My husband had a visit with the pdoc last Friday and when I asked him what he said about all this, he told me "For some reason, she just doesn't want you to know. If this keeps making the situation worse, and medications don't help, then maybe you should separate."

A while ago, the pdoc tried to get him to increase the meds, but it had a sedating effect on him, which husband believes can be dangerous if you're a person who is regularly welding and using power tools. He said: "It worked for two weeks, then suddenly didn't one friday night? This has happened before as well. I don't believe that is how these "disorders" work. I have taken many types of medications to find the right one, so what if it's the minimum dose?" And since he has tried 5 of them already, he says he is not going to try another one he doesn't need. Problem is, he never took them for more than 2 weeks. This is the only one he has taken for any length of time.

I wish I had been able to avoid the confrontation but he was in my face with it just about every two weeks. We'd have a nice calm time for a few weeks, then, something would stress him out, or he'd listen to some recording and that would set him off. Then, he wouldn't talk to me for a few days or maybe a week. I never bought in to his delusions and I tried to reason with him but you can't reason with an irrational person. The night he threw me out, he actually asked me to leave because his son was there and he said he couldn't sleep with the both of us there, and he needed to sleep. He was and and still is frightened of me. I calmly left that night. The next night when I tried to go back, he wouldn't let me in.

Since, he has been texting, calling, you name it, to try to get me to tell the truth. Today, he says he's done fighting, that what he knows now is mostly the truth. He's talking about boxing my things up and divorce. My whole world has been turned upside down. I wish there was something I could do, but I know that I have to stay away for the both of us.

I am still out of the house and staying with friends. Up until last week, DH had been texting me and calling me to see if I was ok. He kept hearing the voice of his friend beating the voice of me and it frightened him. He wanted me to make it all stop, said I was going to cause him to have a nervous breakdown. I feel so awful for him because the things he hears terrify him.

On the flip side of that, last week he went into a rage and kept it up for hours via chat, accusing me of all kinds of things. It seems to go in cycles like that; I love you /I hate you, I love you /I hate you.

I'm finding some support with a NAMI friends and family group, but I feel like the odd man out because I'm the only one who has a psychotic family member. They suggested I take the NAMI Family to Family class so I've signed up for that too. I've read "I'm Not Sick, I Don't Need Help" and watched several of the talks on youtube by Dr. Xavier Amador. It's a great book but I had a hard time using the method on DH.

I'm afraid I have exhausted all the options and cannot go back. I'm looking for a place of my own and am dreading the day I have to go back to the house to pick up my things.

pastoralchuckle wrote:Thanks for your reply. I have been emailing his pdoc everything that has been going on. I asked the doc if there was anything he could tell me without breaching patient confidentiality. The only time he's ever written back, he wrote "I cannot tell you anything, but I can read your emails." I even tried asking him questions, that I got from a NAMI support group, that aren't supposed to breach confidentiality, but he didn't respond to those.

He can't unless your husband gives him permission to and your husband is unlikely to do that given how psychotic and paranoid he is.

But the statement he made means he expects your hubs to act as you describe, and understands exactly what you are saying, and 'keep those emails coming'. LOL.

One. Your husband is very unlikely to be taking his medication at the recommended dose, or often enough, to have any impact on his symptoms. I seriously doubt that 'the medications aren't working' in the sense that, 'this medication doesn't put a dent in his symptoms'. There is a slight possibility that he needs a different medication, but given his paranoia it's very likely he simply isn't taking the one he is prescribed, often enough or the right dose.

My husband had a visit with the pdoc last Friday and when I asked him what he said about all this, he told me "For some reason, she just doesn't want you to know. If this keeps making the situation worse, and medications don't help, then maybe you should separate."

I seriously doubt the doc really said that. But if a patient is getting really agitated and paranoid, the doc may hint at the idea that it might be better if you left the house, for your own sake, so you aren't getting constantly yelled at or...having your...lady parts...inspected...and your husband may be get worse. His symptoms do seem to be increasing.

The doctor may feel, rightly so, that while your husband is refusing to take medication, or take it appropriately, or effectively, that your life might be a little bit less hellacious if you stay somewhere else for a while.

As odd as it sounds, sometimes that helps to get the person to take their medication more appropriately.

As odd as it sounds, I suspect your husband loves you dearly. There's a chance that you leaving, if it's coupled with a simple statement, ''I can come back when your medication is working better. You may need a change of dose or a different medication. When you work it out with your doctor, and your symptoms are less, I would love to be back in my home''. Just very calm and pleasant, warm and kind. Don't get baited into an argument.

A while ago, the pdoc tried to get him to increase the meds, but it had a sedating effect on him, which husband believes can be dangerous if you're a person who is regularly welding and using power tools. He said: "It worked for two weeks, then suddenly didn't one friday night? This has happened before as well. I don't believe that is how these "disorders" work.

[i]Um...no. You're right. It may be how it seems to your husband, though. Believe it or not they often CAN NOT UNDERSTAND why their symptoms are worse or better and they very often can't connect cause to effect like not taking the medication and they get sicker - what seems obvious to us often is not at all obvious to them...often they can't even remember that they didn't take their medication.

Psychotic disorders are far more about how the brain processes information, than about delusions or hallucinations. Delusions (strange ideas) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that 'aren't there') are actually a RESULT of the broader, more underlying aspects of the illness. They're like the tip of an iceberg. Schizophrenia actually is a brain disease, a cognitive disease that affects thinking, evaluating and processing information, making decisions. The delusions and hallucinations are basically the 'Oh Sh**!' reaction of the brain that is having trouble evaluating information, processing information.

I have taken many types of medications to find the right one, so what if it's the minimum dose?"[/i] And since he has tried 5 of them already, he says he is not going to try another one he doesn't need. Problem is, he never took them for more than 2 weeks. This is the only one he has taken for any length of time.

Yeah but here's the problem. He isn't taking enough. Classic.

Here's how it works. If he takes the medication in the right amount, he won't be able to tell 'what is really going on'. He will be letting himself open to just stand there while his wife sleeping with men everywhere, all the time. He'll be letting his guard down.

Too...I hate to tell you this, but many people prefer the charged up, excited feeling of paranoia. It's often kind of a feeling of omnipotence, of power, that you can see what's REALLY going on. Compared to that feeling, being on medication is - well - it's awful. Even leaving aside for the moment, the not exactly wonderful news - 'you're sick, your brain is out of whack, you have a mental illness, you're not as good as everyone else, everything you think is wrong'.

Paranoia can be almost like a high, and it can be very addictive. It's as if a veil has been stripped away and suddenly you know this great and incredible truth.

It's actually as if someone is coming up to you and saying, 'You don't have a husband, you don't have a job, everything that you think is real, everything that makes you feel alive, alert, aware, plugged into this new incredible knowledge, is all false'. With no apology, nothing. Just, everything you know to be true is wrong. This euphoria you feel is just all an illusion.

Take medication? Hell no, and give all this up? Uh uh! People will even tolerate all sorts of horrible symptoms, all sorts of hell, just for a few moments of that omnipotent feeling.

I wish I had been able to avoid the confrontation but he was in my face with it just about every two weeks. We'd have a nice calm time for a few weeks, then, something would stress him out, or he'd listen to some recording and that would set him off.

What kind of things stress him?

You know...some people can stick with the person through the 'I won't take medication' stage. It mostly depends on how severe their symptoms are, but there are techniques.

It's very hard when the delusions are directed at you, but there are techniques. They don't always work, but sometimes they do. Sometimes you have a better chance of the person finally accepting appropriate treatment if you are out of the house, sometimes you have no choice but to leave, sometimes it works ok to stay and you can actually make some head way

Sometimes you can build an alliance with a paranoid person. Sometimes just for a few months, sometimes for longer. It's tough sledding, but I've done it with some people sometimes, and I'm just a fat old grey haired old lady. If I can do it, anyone can do it. it's a risk, of course. Paranoia can be dangerous.

Besides the ah...inspections, it doesn't sound like he's done anything dangerous yet. In a way, he's suggesting that you may UNKNOWINGLY be sleeping with all these ghost guys. What sounds really awful to you, still has a little glimmer to me.

You might still attempt to build an alliance, but listen to your gut feelings and stay out if it's getting too bad. As far as returning after leaving, I'd just try keeping in touch with him, and asking him 'How do you feel about me coming home? I miss you'.

If your instincts are telling you you're better off somewhere else, listen to that instinct. If it seems like by staying home, you're preventing the inevitable (the nuisance crime that gets him in front of a judge who orders him to take medication appropriately, for example - the nuisance crime that sends the family into tears of relief) then you might be better away from there and letting nature taking its course.

Then, he wouldn't talk to me for a few days or maybe a week. I never bought in to his delusions and I tried to reason with him

Don't try to reason with him!!!!!! Never argue with a symptom!

Each person is different, but you can find ways, little baby steps, that build an alliance between you and him. Since he is taking medication, he may partially understand, at some times (maybe not all the time), that he's ill. If he says, 'I think you're sleeping with another man', you could try saying, 'Infidelity is horrible', or 'I believe married people should be loyal to each other'. Keep it a very short, simple statement of your belief. Don't contradict his beliefs.

I would NOT consider reasonable, non-revolting, non-dangerous activities that he asks you to do, as 'feeding the delusion' or 'agreeing with the delusion'. For example, I would say, 'I can close the curtains, that's cool', but I would say, 'Sorry, I can't go across the hall and beat up our neighbor for you'. And I would give a reasonable answer why. 'I can't go because I don't want to get arrested'.

I would not be drawn into a debate about a delusion. SEE IF YOU CAN simply withdraw your attention from him, in a calm way, when he starts that, and just influence his behavior a little bit. 'I don't want to talk about this, you always yell at me when we talk about this'. See if by very gently withdrawing your attention (it can be as simple as 'I will talk to you later'), you can just change his behavior a little bit.

Keep in mind that a person with this illness can get to be a little bit of a bully, it's almost like a little tantrum. It's not due to meanness or being a jerk, it's simply that the person is having such an impossible time trying to deal with his delusions and hallucinations, that he can't figure out anything else to do. You have to have a way to set some boundaries.

As an example, when one of my folks would give me verbal threats, I would simply say, 'That is a very hurtful thing to say' and give him about a two hour 'time out'. Nothing mean, no yelling, just, bye bye, see ya later. And he got it. It took a lot of repetition, but he got it. You threaten me, the endless flow of cookies and cake dries up for a while. You don't threaten me, and life is good. You want 6 cheeseburgers? There they are. You threaten to kill my cat, I go do something else.

Sometimes, when a person gets really s**tty with you, all they are saying is, 'I need a break, my brain is exhausted'. And so you go away, and they are doing better later. They have no control over how severe their symptoms are sometimes, and the severity of them can vary from moment to moment.

Remember you are dealing with someone who has a very hard time thinking, concentrating, and taking 2 and 2 and getting 4. Because about 10,000 things are getting thrown at them at once. Their brain just is not good at organizing all the incoming information.

but you can't reason with an irrational person.

Bingo!!!!

The night he threw me out, he actually asked me to leave because his son was there and he said he couldn't sleep with the both of us there, and he needed to sleep.

Awwww!

He was and and still is frightened of me. I calmly left that night. The next night when I tried to go back, he wouldn't let me in.

Might need to just give it some time. Being really calm and relaxed helps. Actually I find saying to myself, 'okay, smithy, this person needs you to be really calm right now, this is gonna work, and you know it, we've been here before, so just get into the groove, just warm, steady and in control right now, stay cool, stay cool, don't get scared, don't get upset, just cool cool cool', it's kind of a meditation, like 'still your mind, focus on this'.

Since, he has been texting, calling, you name it, to try to get me to tell the truth.

Awwww!

Today, he says he's done fighting, that what he knows now is mostly the truth. He's talking about boxing my things up and divorce. My whole world has been turned upside down. I wish there was something I could do, but I know that I have to stay away for the both of us.

If his symptoms are too severe for him to control, and he won't take his medication appropriately, this may be the best thing. I know several women who have gone ahead and gotten a divorce because there was a strong pattern for a long time, of him not taking his medication appropriately.

What I would do is just calmly say, 'When you have worked out your medication and dose with your doctor, I feel I can come back. I'll always love you, I've always been loyal to you'.

I'd suggest you try to slow the choo choo train down. Just stay away, just repeat that when his medication problems are worked out, you believe you will be able to come back, and you and he will find a way together, to heal together.

I would not agree with him, yeah, I had affairs with ghost guys a foot away from you, ever. I would stick to my guns, but I'd try to avoid being put in the position of arguing about it.

You can repeat, 'I love you, and I believe in our marriage. I always have, I always will'.

Keep in mind a lot of that bluster is just him saying he is scared, confused, doesn't know what to believe, and try not to take it too seriously.

he may yet come around. He may yet agree to try a depot medication (once or twice a month shot), or taking medication given by a visiting nurse, or something that is better than this.

I always hold out on hope. I urge people to stay calm don't get their feelings hurt, and stay strong - the stuff you don't like that he's doing, these are symptoms, not him. He's still in there somewhere, and something may yet break this logjam up.

Sometimes the disease is just too strong and there is no saving the person. Sometimes you have to just move on, and start a new life. I truly believe you'll be ok, not immediately, but I do believe you'll be ok, if you do have to move on. You've been pretty amazing so far, and I think you can deal with whatever you have to do. Be strong, be calm, take time for yourself. Consider finding a place where you can pay short term rent, and stay loose.

The worst part is not knowing how it is going to come out. We can handle almost anything but uncertainty.

Once, I rushed to the vet with my friend and her dog. The dog was having seizures. She said, 'oh my God, I think he's gone!' We were still 30 minutes from the vet. I was driving like Mario Andretti. We got to the vet, she ran in with this limp little dog in her arms. About 20 minutes later, the vet had revived the dog, and she came out into the lobby with a bottle of pills. 'My frikkin dog has epilepsy' she said, and burst into tears. I was like, 'you mean after all that Spike is going to live?' "YEAH!" she wailed and collapsed in even worse tears.

I was like, 'girl! girl! your dog is going to live, whassamatter????' She said, 'I just went through all sorts of hell getting used to the idea of him dying!'

It's a roller coaster honey, and sometimes, well, it's kind of an Olympic marathon run.

pastoralchuckle wrote:I am still out of the house and staying with friends. Up until last week, DH had been texting me and calling me to see if I was ok. He kept hearing the voice of his friend beating the voice of me and it frightened him. He wanted me to make it all stop, said I was going to cause him to have a nervous breakdown. I feel so awful for him because the things he hears terrify him.

Awwww...that's sweet that he is worried about you. I would say, just straight out, 'You're so kind to worry about my safety'. Be cool. Be calm. Don't feel too sorry for him. He needs to learn a lesson, take his medication and he will feel better.

On the flip side of that, last week he went into a rage and kept it up for hours via chat, accusing me of all kinds of things. It seems to go in cycles like that; I love you /I hate you, I love you /I hate you.

No, it's just symptoms - they vary from day to day, hour to hour, week to week. He can't help it right now.

I'm finding some support with a NAMI friends and family group, but I feel like the odd man out because I'm the only one who has a psychotic family member. They suggested I take the NAMI Family to Family class so I've signed up for that too. I've read "I'm Not Sick, I Don't Need Help" and watched several of the talks on youtube by Dr. Xavier Amador. It's a great book but I had a hard time using the method on DH.

Well Xavier is a therapist, so he's in a different situation than us, we who live with the person 24/7. But I basically do what he does, I don't argue, I sympathize, I ask them what they need me to do to help, etc.

Sometimes it works to say, 'the problem is not you, you just need a medication adjustment' (that's the truth). Sometimes it helps to say, 'I remember before you had so much trouble with your symptoms, you were SO NICE to me. I really enjoyed that. That was our life together, we were really a team. It can be like that again'.

IN a way his paranoia makes total sense. If he cares about you and gets diagnosis of mental illness, the immediate worry is, 'oh, sh**, my wife is going to leave me, I've heard about stuff like that happening'. That fear may be what pumps up the paranoia. It's often based on little concerns the person has, and it twists them into great big monsters - paranoia.

Since I'm a female and many of the folks are male, I very often get a feeling like a caring mom or older sister, I REALLY do sincerely care about the person, and I let the person know that, not all gushy and falling all over the person, but just a warm respectful attitude. People really do seem to respond to that. I don't overdo it or baby people, though, I have faith that they have a strength that they can learn to draw on, and can learn to manage their illness, manage medication, the whole 9 yards. It might take time, it might be a pretty bumpy road, there might be one step forward and two steps back, but I just remind myself that there is no rush. Some people, I can't help, and I pray for their safety, their physical health, and maybe, just maybe, if they remember that way back when, some one was nice to them even if it was just for a few moments, maybe that will be the thin little thread that leads them to help.

Sincerity and honesty is good. Paranoia is the world's greatest Bu** s*** o-meter. People who aren't sincere and try to be vague or tricky, don't do well with people with paranoia. People with paranoia realize when they are being patronized or talked down to.

I'm afraid I have exhausted all the options and cannot go back. I'm looking for a place of my own and am dreading the day I have to go back to the house to pick up my things.

[i]OH I wouldn't take any place that's real long term lease...LOL. Just hang in there. Maybe find a month to month place.

He seems to miss you and worry about you. That's a good sign. See if he might decide on his own, to take medication appropriately. Just take it easy, don't push, stand your ground on the medication issue, keep your statements very simple and clear. And just be nice...it works amazing miracles sometimes. You just never know.

Thank you smithywise for your reply. I'm still staying with friends, trying to find a place with a short term lease. I'm trying to separate myself from DH but it's hard. On valentine's day, he got all worked up and emailed me and texted me more so than usual. The next day he told me how much he misses us and can't believe I threw us away. Two days later he's paranoid again and wants to make sure I am not near the house, so he asks me to take a picture proving where I am.
I ran in to him about two days later, after not seeing him for a month, (unfortunately, we work together) and it was just heartbreaking. It caught me off guard and I didn't know what to do or to say. He took that as showing a lack of emotion and looking at him like a non-person. Every few days he emails or texts me something. Today he wanted to tell me to stop coming in the house while he was sleeping because he would call the police because it was breaking and entering. It just makes me so sad because we were so close.
Most things stress him out. He hates crowds and traveling. He gets very upset if I don't put things away or if I don't finish a project. He always has to do things the hard way. We bought a fixer upper and he won't let anyone work on the house because he thinks he can do it all. Really, most things stress him out.
I'm trying to hang in there and am trying to be hopeful that he might get help, but I'm pretty sure he won't. I'm still emailing his pdoc and am keeping in touch with his family. I guess that's all I can do at this point.