Is he still lying?

In Febuary, I looked at my husband's phone and sawthat he had talked to one of our friends that I didn't know he talked to on the phone, only spiratically via text. When I asked him about it, he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about, so I told him I saw the phone and he said, "oh yea, I guess I did talk to her". One of the two calls was 34 minutes long, how can you "forget" that? Then he convinced me that they were just friends and he said he would be brutally honest with me from then on. About a week later, we went out with a group of friends and she was one of them, I got really drunk (which I very rarely do) and our friends called us a cab to our hotel. The next morning, I asked to see the text messages that he had on his phone and he told me that he deleted tham because he was drunk. (our deal was he deleted nothing until I saw it) I asked him if she had come to the hotel and he said "no, I swear she did not come to the hotel". then, about a week later I went to the basement to see what he was doing and he was packing his clothes. He said that all he does is hurt me and he didn't want to see me hurt anymore, to that I responded, then stop hurting and lying to me. He said that he was still protecting me and that she had come to the hotel that night. In all of this, he has said that he doesn't remember anything happening between the two of them, that they were just friends.

Fast forward three months, He still could not tell me what had happened between them, so I went to her and had her tell me what happened and they had a full fledged affair, they met for sex, they had sex in my home, they talekd 18 hours a day, the whole thing. So now he is saying that he cannot access those memories because the quilt and shame were so much that he had to bury the feelings and memories. My thing is, if the guilt and shame were too much then why not just stop? Why comtiue to lie to me for two years?

Now, I know I'm going to defend him for a second, He is an amuputee who deals with pain every second of every day and has learned how to block that pain out. He has blocked out so much pain that he walked on a detached acilies tendon for a month beofre he had reconstructive surgery to repair it. That said, is it possible that he could have blocked out the memeories that caused guilt and shame? or is he still lying to me.

Since all of this has occured, he has reliazed what pain his coices abd selfishness has caused and has been more open about his feelings and volnerable to me. He says that seeing the ditruction that his lies have caused has made him stop lying completely and that he is not going to ever lie to me again, about anything.

Is this possible? My heart wants to believe that is it, but my gut tells me that a compulsive liar can't just flip a switch and stop lying anymore that an alcoholic can stop drinking.

Please, give me your input, I have been married to this man since I was 18 and I am now 36, we just had our 18th anniversary and we have three beautiful children together. Is there hope for him, us, me?

th612 wrote:In Febuary, I looked at my husband's phone and sawthat he had talked to one of our friends that I didn't know he talked to on the phone, only spiratically via text. When I asked him about it, he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about, so I told him I saw the phone and he said, "oh yea, I guess I did talk to her". One of the two calls was 34 minutes long, how can you "forget" that?

You can't. He was lying.

th612 wrote:Then he convinced me that they were just friends and he said he would be brutally honest with me from then on. About a week later, we went out with a group of friends and she was one of them, I got really drunk (which I very rarely do) and our friends called us a cab to our hotel. The next morning, I asked to see the text messages that he had on his phone and he told me that he deleted tham because he was drunk.

Another lie.

th612 wrote:(our deal was he deleted nothing until I saw it) I asked him if she had come to the hotel and he said "no, I swear she did not come to the hotel". then, about a week later I went to the basement to see what he was doing and he was packing his clothes. He said that all he does is hurt me and he didn't want to see me hurt anymore, to that I responded, then stop hurting and lying to me. He said that he was still protecting me and that she had come to the hotel that night. In all of this, he has said that he doesn't remember anything happening between the two of them, that they were just friends.

Fast forward three months, He still could not tell me what had happened between them, so I went to her and had her tell me what happened and they had a full fledged affair, they met for sex, they had sex in my home, they talekd 18 hours a day, the whole thing. So now he is saying that he cannot access those memories because the quilt and shame were so much that he had to bury the feelings and memories. My thing is, if the guilt and shame were too much then why not just stop? Why comtiue to lie to me for two years?

Clearly whatever guilt he felt when he was cheating on you was not enough to outweigh the benefits of the affair, which is why he continued to have it.

th612 wrote:Now, I know I'm going to defend him for a second, He is an amuputee who deals with pain every second of every day and has learned how to block that pain out. He has blocked out so much pain that he walked on a detached acilies tendon for a month beofre he had reconstructive surgery to repair it. That said, is it possible that he could have blocked out the memeories that caused guilt and shame? or is he still lying to me.

It is possible that is the case but I think it is highly unlikely and that really he is just lying to you. However, as a once compulsive liar I know that many of my lies like this were partly true, or based on something true. It is probably true that his memories of the affair cause him guilt and shame, but it is probably not true that it was so much that he blocked them out/ forgot about the whole thing. However, as a once compulsive liar, I used to say a lie, a convenient something that could be true, and then once I had said it I would sort of accept it as true, and I would end up believing in my own lies. Might be the same for him?

th612 wrote:Since all of this has occured, he has reliazed what pain his coices abd selfishness has caused and has been more open about his feelings and volnerable to me. He says that seeing the ditruction that his lies have caused has made him stop lying completely and that he is not going to ever lie to me again, about anything.

Was that his phrasing? sounds a little overly adamant to me. Kind of bs-y. I think he's still lying to you. Like it was believable until he added the "about anything" part.
Like if he had said, that I realize how destructive my lies are and I'm going to try never lying again . . . but if he just said that he would . . . I feel like if he were being honest he would be honest about just how hard that feat is going to be.
The thing is is, maybe superficially he feels bad and wants to quit, (he feels bad superficially because he probably thinks the affair was worth it, you’re still together, and he superficially wants to quit because he knows what shi* lying can get him into, he was caught, but he also thinks it was worth it) but he doesn't really mean it because, well see that's the thing, he probably partially means it, (the best liars believe their own lies) he means it enough for you to believe it but by setting himself such an unrealistic goal ("about anything") it's clear that he doesn't really intend to meet it. In a way it may even be justification for him to keep lying because he makes quitting seem so impossible and ridiculous.

th612 wrote:Is this possible?

It was for me. My guilt and shame was so great that I completely changed my thinking, I completely cleared my mind and didn't talk other than what was necessary (Yes and No pretty much) for weeks just to quit. But for me, that's really what it was, it was a change of thinking. Before I "quit" my mind was full of fantasies and possibilities and happy delusions that I believed in and in order to quit, I had to give that all up for empty space. Like it was a necessary decision because my guilt and shame were so great but at the same time, I sort of regret it. edit: I just realized I forgot to mention, I've had a few relapses since then but they all have been dealt with and that I'm not nearly as bad as I was. I would say I'm actually more honest than most people now.

th612 wrote: My heart wants to believe that is it, but my gut tells me that a compulsive liar can't just flip a switch and stop lying anymore that an alcoholic can stop drinking.

Pretty good comparison I think.

th612 wrote:Please, give me your input, I have been married to this man since I was 18 and I am now 36, we just had our 18th anniversary and we have three beautiful children together. Is there hope for him, us, me?

I think there is hope and will get to that in a second but first I want to say this.
Just because he is a compulsive liar, though admittedly that adds to the situation, that ultimately is no excuse for his affair. Compulsive lying is an impulse disorder and having an affair is not an impulsive decision. Although he had an affair for the same reasons he lies, he's selfish and thinks he can get away with it, it's not the same as the split second thinking it takes to form a lie. He is still responsible for his actions.
And even compulsive liar are responsible for their lies too in that even though they lie almost unthinkingly (or at least I would) if they had enough motivation, they could stop. Or at least I could.
Anyway, so I said that I think there is hope for you. That is because there is always hope. But . . . do I think there is hope that he will quit on his own accord?/ what do I think you should do to get him to quit? Ok first question, do I think he will quit on his own accord, seems like no. A liar will usually only quit lying if there is a strong enough intrinsic motivation to. Intrinsic I pretty much mean feelings. If his lies are causing him enough hurt and pain then, and only then, will he seriously try to stop. And . . . dam* forgot what I was going to say. <- That's my theory. I think all compulsive liars are short sighted in a sense. They are less developed in the areas of long term consequences and are more self indulgent. It is my theory that all compulisive liars are this way, and that it contributes to their lying. All I know for sure though is that it is certainly true for me.
What do I think you should do? The "ideal" situation I've thought of is if you become an expert at spotting his lies and then take the kids and leave saying that he won't be seeing any of you again until he stops lying for good. His pride would probably get in the way at first but being away from his family would probably give him enough pain/motivation to cause him to sincerely try quitting. But becoming an expert at spotting his lies is a difficult, near impossible task. Even I who used to be a compulsive liar myself have trouble spotting lies sometimes. So . . . idk exactly what you should do. But I think trying to get better at spotting lies in general can't hurt. There are resources online, books, and I could make a thread talking about how I used to lie, what to look out for etc.
But there's also this: your husband cheated on you, and while it seems he feels/felt somewhat guilty and ashamed about it, it also seems like he ultimately doesn't regret it. . . . Do you really want to stay with him?
I can see why you would for the sake of your kids; it's also probable that he loves and cares for you very much but he does these things because he can. You need to make it so he can't somehow which is really difficult to do. The best advice I can think of for right now, as simple and pitiful as it is, is try becoming better at spotting his lies.
Lots of luck,
Supasta
*disclaimer* lots of if not all of this post was speculation and opinion based on my experiences having been a compulsive liar.
edit: After reading a few other threads, it has come to my attention that therapy, for him, is an option as well.

th612,

Hi I was just reading your post. I had an affair to, I'm not trying to compare the two but the only reason I said I would stop lying is because I was caught. The question I would ask myself is, would he had stopped if you wouldn't have been curious. You checked his phone for a reason. My Wife intuition was what made her think. At the time, I probably would've never told if I had been caught and I feel the same with your husband. You don't block out an affair that continuously happen. This is where you need to sit the love to the side and think reasonable. I could possibly be wrong, no one deserves to be cheated on and disrespected in that way.

J.R.