Bullying isn't that bad

WiserWoman wrote:Saboeth seriously your initial posting about bullying not being all that bad is such a load of crap I barely know where to start. Comparing antibullying campaigns to the work of the Nazi Germany on the HItler Youth is a load of rubbish and just shows how ignorant you are. I mean come on man! I'd love to be a fly on the wall watching you tell a Holocaust survivor that one!
I too have had the broad experence of which you speak and couldn't be more on the opposite side of the fence than you. Your arguments are full of holes, your outlook is so warped it's unreal and right now I am so p*$$ed off with you I'm not even going to start until I've calmed down....
What's your next warped thread going to be? Why murder isn't that bad and deserves place in society, or other despicable crimes against the human spirit like paedophilia or rape....?

WW,
you may disagree with S but you cant call names such as ignorant. I agree with what you have said. Very much so, but
just take this as a reminder of disagreeing respectfully.
Thanks.
Red

ok i didnt read the entire thread so forgive me if i repeat something thats already been said. i think the ops post was an overstatement. there are too many factors to consider and prolonged degradation (be it mental or physical) has profound effects on the brain? have you studied at least a little bit of psychology? no human being can sustain themselves without encouragement no matter how strong their willpower or confidence. confidence itself appeals to opinion, just higher level opinions: your confident that you can comprehend sophisticated text. thats bc you know SOMEWHERE someone sees this as a positive trait, despite your peers calling you a nerd. i am what most would call headstrong and stubborn, but even i have attempted suicide due to abuse suffered at the hands of the ones supposed to love me. you can only take so much before you snap, but how much it takes depends entirely on your personality, brain, environment and experience. not everyone can be an "iron soldier", sorry.

I also didn't read the whole thread, but I feel the urge to comment before I can give this a more thorough look. I gained nothing at all from being bullied. I developed selective mutism in middle school as a result of bullying, and still suffer from social paranoia and extreme, frantic insecurities. I'm much better-- as far as I know I'm able to appear "normal" and maintain proper relationships-- but internally I'm still crippled by anxiety when it comes to almost any social interaction. I experience anxiety recalling minor faux pas I made years ago, and my obsession with relationships and personal presentation dominate my thoughts.

I was not bullied because of any social ineptitude (like picking noses) that I'm aware of. I was very shy and very submissive-- I was unable to express anger or stand up for myself, and I'm really unable to do that still. I wasn't bullied for any reason that related to my identity-- race, religion, sexual orientation-- but I honestly think it's appalling that you would equate these fundamental identity traits with the completely changeable behavior of bulling. Are you saying bullies are as maligned as gays? As persecuted as Jews? (By the way, do you know that nazi comparisons are a telltale sign of irrationality?)

The only benefit of bullying that I see is that bullies eventually realize, as they grow up, what horrible people they are and become more empathetic. A small benefit for an incredible cost.

Someone named Epictetus supposedly said... "It is not he who reviles or strikes you who insults you, but your opinion that these things are insulting."

And I believe that. But with that said...

Everything has it's place. I don't feel that bullying should be condoned or sanctioned, because that is pretty much saying that it is OK to do. Do we want everyone to be a bully? Do we want ANYONE to be a bully? I don't think so.

Can it have hidden benefits? Sure, anything can, but it is not a positive action, and I don't think it is something we want encouraged. Just like beating someone up might some times make them a stronger person, we discourage it because it is not considered a positive action. Encourage kindness and compassion, discourage bullying. There will be enough bullies still that we do not have to sanction it or give it a justification in any way.

And besides, there are other ways to get the benefits that bullying can provide without leaving it up to random people to carry it out on unwilling subjects.

I am at a bit of a loss to understand the origin and reasoning of some of the comments here. I think it fair to say that bullying comes in a variety of shapes and sizes, but one of the main forms of bullying is the threat of, or use of violence.

Since, as an adult, I am entitled to live without such a threat; and anyone causing me to believe that I might suffer injury at their hand is guilty of assault; it seems mad to suggest that the same protection should not apply to youngsters as it does to adults.

Bullying, is, by its very definition a power play. To exert this sort of influence of a weaker individual is ethically and morally flawed.

The Bully, therefore should be penalised and called by his true name. The Agressor. In a civilised society such an individual would be dealt with by our legal system.

This cracked me up. I never thought I'd see someone insensitive enough to stick up for bullies. Of course, you're probably going to champion the cause of robbers and wife beaters next

I don't like the term 'bully' personally. To me, it's verbal or physical harrassment.

I can only hope that you will be bullied by a boss or someone else someday again - to the point that you actually see how destructive it is. Obviously your bully didn't hit you in the right spot.

Friggle wrote:ok i didnt read the entire thread so forgive me if i repeat something thats already been said. i think the ops post was an overstatement. there are too many factors to consider and prolonged degradation (be it mental or physical) has profound effects on the brain? have you studied at least a little bit of psychology? no human being can sustain themselves without encouragement no matter how strong their willpower or confidence. confidence itself appeals to opinion, just higher level opinions: your confident that you can comprehend sophisticated text.

And many people have been bullied its a known cycle. But, what if sabaoth has been studying psychology past 10 years? How do you know if he's been trying to go into being a psychologist? He never said it did or didn't have prolonged degradation and you act as if he hasn't studied on this topic. That bold statement right there is a form of verbal harassment. That's as if you don't agree with someone's view and say "What have you're parents not raised you right?" or "Have you ever been in school". I just find this whole topic as a cycle of bullying. Sabaoth never said that there was no encouragement in a bullied child's life. I completely understand that you didn't read the entire thread but, that still doesn't give the right to be misinformed on what was said.

runner4life wrote:This cracked me up. I never thought I'd see someone insensitive enough to stick up for bullies. Of course, you're probably going to champion the cause of robbers and wife beaters next

I don't like the term 'bully' personally. To me, it's verbal or physical harrassment.

I can only hope that you will be bullied by a boss or someone else someday again - to the point that you actually see how destructive it is. Obviously your bully didn't hit you in the right spot.

And claiming someone to be a champion of robbers and wife beaters isn't? Sabaoth NEVER claimed to have been sticking up for bullies and DEFINITELY said that he/she was bullied before. In fact you never made a legitimate stance on if you think it can have positive or negative influence all you wrote seemed to me as verbal harassment.

gwilly wrote:Can it have hidden benefits? Sure, anything can, but it is not a positive action, and I don't think it is something we want encouraged. Just like beating someone up might some times make them a stronger person, we discourage it because it is not considered a positive action. Encourage kindness and compassion, discourage bullying. There will be enough bullies still that we do not have to sanction it or give it a justification in any way.

Agree with you on some main points but, in what way do you see them as a stronger person? I really mean what is your definition as a stronger person?

forthebirds wrote: Are you saying bullies are as maligned as gays? As persecuted as Jews? (By the way, do you know that nazi comparisons are a telltale sign of irrationality?)

My opinion is that he was trying to find a sort of extremity to the principle factor of propaganda to children about anti-bullying.

...Personally it seems throughout this form everyone has thrown out the fact that they have been bullied and that is understood. I think that the people who have accepted that they are on the offense end of being a bully will have little to no posts on this topic. Now i believe bullying can build you're spirit because you will be more in tune to your emotional, maybe even psychical or spiritual. Let's say someone is being bullied for being Muslim, now the person might think "oh maybe my religion is wrong", hopefully not but who's to say that the thought of that 'it's wrong' made him realize that this bullying has made him doubt his own-self. So, the boy goes to the mosque to find out a way to change what he can do in this situation. And since then the boy has become a young adult proud Muslim and is now fighting for equal rights for all his fellow brothers and sisters. That to me is a positive outcome of bullying. But, I don't believe that anti-bully methods shouldn't be upheld. Bullying is going to happen but, trying to not advocate an end to it doesn't do anything. At least anti-bully propaganda is a step somewhere to maybe more kind and warmhearted children. And i do believe many bullies have a low self esteem and/or parents that don't care much for them. But, like any other war there has to be an at least say in the action so that's why I believe anti-bully methods should be enforced.

Now a question of curiosity: Who believes that if we didn't start as anti-bullying instead switched it to a school wide method for pro-bully would make positive, negative or the same outcome?

Agree with you on some main points but, in what way do you see them as a stronger person? I really mean what is your definition as a stronger person?

I mean a firm character and the ability to withstand certain stresses. And I'm by no means saying that it happens every time (which is why I specified 'some times') and in fact bullying can weaken some people as well. But the fact is that it doesn't weaken every person as it doesn't strengthen every person. I'm just being literal.

gwilly wrote:

Agree with you on some main points but, in what way do you see them as a stronger person? I really mean what is your definition as a stronger person?

I mean a firm character and the ability to withstand certain stresses. And I'm by no means saying that it happens every time (which is why I specified 'some times') and in fact bullying can weaken some people as well. But the fact is that it doesn't weaken every person as it doesn't strengthen every person. I'm just being literal.

O ok I see

I am going to tell you what the wonders of being bullied has done for my life.

From the age of 14-17 I rode a school bus to school, it was the school bus of my school's sister school. So on this school bus it was all girls except for me and about 3 other guys. I was the fat kid and the girls on that bus made me know it, for 3 years they taunted me and made me realize how disgusted I made them. For 3 years, my sexual identity developmental years (for you developmental psychologist types), I was made to understand that women are disgusted by me and see me as some sort of a joke.

This was such a wonderful experience that made me soooo strong, wow! I mean I turned to alcohol after high school, yep from 18-25 I was a hard core alcoholic. Also my personal life has been wonderful, I am 31 years old and never had a girlfriend. See I can't trust a woman at all and can't imagine any woman ever being able to be interested in me. Oh and I also have no friendships with women, yeah that is a really healthy growth experience from being bullied.

But hey we are in a capitalistic society, personal relationships don't matter, you can still make a living, right? Well lets talk about my professional life. After high school I failed out of college because I was always so depressed and drunk because being bullied was such a great experience for me. And then, I got into legal troubles because being bullied made me so strong. I have a conviction for resisting arrest and DUI both related to my alcoholic self-medication due to my depression from bullying. I have not had a job in 8 years, because in the US everyone does a criminal background check and who the hell is going to hire me?

I can't even be a taxi driver because of my DUI and I can't do any other job because of my resisting arrest conviction. Being bullied has had a great impact upon my life. I mean, I really like never having ever kissed a women and not being able to get a job, it is great for me.

Sorry if I don't share the original poster's view about bullying.

--31 years old, alone, unemployed, and without hope.