Hi. [Non-BPD] Intro and a question about cheating (Trigger)

Right, this is going to be a novel, sorry for that. Also, for BPDs here, no offence meant.

I am a non, currently in 4 month relationship with a girl with BPD. She also has a couple of other F's slapped in front of her name. She is undergoing therapy, taking meds and is generally pretty aware of her condition, as much as it is possible, I suppose. Also full of unfounded insecurities, about her looks, about her being boring to me, if I'm going to just up and leave and cut all contact with her (which I just might, because I am at my wits' end, too) etc.

So far thing have been grand, but I can't help but look at her and her behavior through the lenses of her disorder, so I am getting a little paranoid. The one thing that is common to BPDs is casual, dangerous sex. Now, she has a colorful sexual history, which I don't mind really, and wouldn't actually care about cheating at all were it not for the STDs. So, I get suspicious. Very. She claims she has never done that, even to people who treated her like $#%^, and that the relationship with me is the first normal and sane thing of that kind that has happened to her. But something stinks to my paranoid brain and also she's too eager to hang out with a guy with whom she was involved in the past. Who knows what else is there and I don't know about.

The questions:

1. Are all BPDs the same? In a way that they get bored fast and start looking elsewhere whenever a slightest problem occurs.
2. Are all prone to cheating and lies? I mean, we all lie and cheat, but with them it's supposed to be a pattern?
3. Maybe I was too boring with my concerns, and I wonder if it was a mistake to share them with her. Was it?

I really like her ($#%^, love her probably), and would not want to break things up for no reason. But it's getting too much for me. Also, the final thing, she is not the typical BPD from what little I know, I mean, she doesn't mirror, has her own personality, and is very considerate most of the time. Or is it all a part of the mask?

This is a question to both BPDs and nons and I equally appreciate any input and advice. Thanks.

While there is a trend among BPDs, simply because we all have the same disorder, you can't go accusing her of cheating. I have NEVER cheated in my life. I've been cheated ON though, and I can't do that to someone. I also am not as much of a liar as I used to be, and even then it was to hide my problems from people.

No, we're not all the same. I'm better at long-term relationships than I used to be, no longer bolting at the first sign of a problem. Instead I work through them and things get better.

Start looking at her without the BPD filter! She's getting help, are you willing to be patient with her through it?

Why are you at wit's end exactly?

I just ended a relationship of 2.5yrs with a girl that has ALL of the classic symptoms of BPD. My doctor friend "called it" on her long ago and said for me to be careful and actually told me (as a friend) to RUN TO THE HILLS and don't look back.

Well, I didn't... and boy I sure wish I would have.

1. We met in a bar 2 yrs ago and literally in 8 min I knew I was taking her home. We came to my place and it was AMAZING!

I essentially coerced her into "staying" with me with all of my co-dependant techniques etc...

ANYWAY... my point is... I ALWAYS smelled some sort of "stink" with her as you did. There was always SOMETHING not quite right... secrecy, devious behavior... a lot of txting that I didn't know about... something was just "off" and not quite right. (this is where my doctor buddy advised me). My other friends also told me that I was being "played"....

Well... I FINALLY gave in and went with my intuition and started "watching" and even "snooping" a bit in her personal business (of which was wrong). However, Ohhhh boy ohhhhh boy!!! I found the nastiest, dirtiest, terrible jack pot one would want to find! It was like lifting a big old piece of wet cardboard that has been out in the mist and rain with grass and a nasty smell all around it. I lifted that cardboard there was nothing but hundreds of nasty maggots underneath just brewing and breeding!

TERRIBLE!! TERRIBLE TERRIBLE! She was and had been carrying on cheating with many other people from the begining.

Due to my Co-dependancy... I "let it go" and stayed with her. She cleaned up a bit... but after that, I just always "knew"... it was simply doomed from the start.

ARe they all alike? I would say not. However... that's my experience and If I EVER EVER come near someone I feel might have BPD in terms of dating or sex or ANYTHING. I WILL be running to the hills!!

Best of luck!

cage rattler wrote:Right, this is going to be a novel, sorry for that. Also, for BPDs here, no offence meant.

The questions:

1. Are all BPDs the same? In a way that they get bored fast and start looking elsewhere whenever a slightest problem occurs.
2. Are all prone to cheating and lies? I mean, we all lie and cheat, but with them it's supposed to be a pattern?
3. Maybe I was too boring with my concerns, and I wonder if it was a mistake to share them with her. Was it?

I really like her ($#%^, love her probably), and would not want to break things up for no reason. But it's getting too much for me. Also, the final thing, she is not the typical BPD from what little I know, I mean, she doesn't mirror, has her own personality, and is very considerate most of the time. Or is it all a part of the mask?

This is a question to both BPDs and nons and I equally appreciate any input and advice. Thanks.

None taken. You're curious and you're trying to sort things out. And you have good reason to post it outside of the threads for Nons, so I'm gonna let it go and answer your questions.

1) No. There are BPDs who have incredible focus and patience.
2) Also no. BPDs run the spectrum, just like "normies". Some lie and cheat; others hang on for dear life. There are also cases of compulsive truthfulness (not limited to BPD, actually more closely related to OCD).
3) Also no. In my opinion, communication is a MUST in any healthy relationship. And not just one-way communication. I mean communication where both (or more) partners actually repeat back what they think they heard. I think this is especially important in a relationship with someone who may be likely to catastrophize a statement or answer.

Example (actual conversation):
My fiance: "I'd like to stay in this house for another year."
Me: "I'm hearing that you don't like the houses I've looked at and that my opinion and comfort doesn't matter."
My fiance: "What I mean is that [insert financial reason], [insert personal reason]. I like the houses you've looked at and I DO want you to be comfortable, but I'm not ready to move yet. Let's make some small changes while we're living here."
Me: "OK, that makes sense. In that case, let's insulate the house better next winter and take the down comforter out of storage so I'm not always so damn cold and pissy!"
My fiance: "Sounds good."

Turns out we have to dry-clean the comforter, but that's OK with both of us. We also got additional, free-standing storage space.

Anyway...yeah. Communication is a must.

Question 4) I'd have to know your girlfriend personally to make that call--and maybe I wouldn't be able to then, either. I have my own personality, too. I like to debate and I'm assertive. Well, whaddaya know--a few months ago I found out that I was only acting assertive in the way that I thought my fiance would like. I didn't even realize I was doing it. So I changed it and became more true to myself. Started actually being assertive. This doesn't mean that your girl is the same way. A) She might very well have her disorder under control (but controlling the disorder doesn't change who the person is). B) People, with or without disorders, tend to become more like each other over time anyway. That's not just a BPD thing.



cage rattler, the second most important issue in this relationship is that you can't see past her BPD. Here's an example: there are people who should date persons in wheelchairs, and there are people who shouldn't. Why? Because the people who SHOULDN"T date the wheelchair-bound can't see the person in the chair. Just like you can't see past your GF's BPD. (NOTE: BPD isn't necessarily a handicap, but it can be strong enough to be a disability.)

The MOST important issue is that you, like many people including those with BPD, are seeing things as black and white. Personality disorders are on a grayscale. We all have traits of personality disorders. It's how pronounced those traits are that can create an issue.

People tend to unconsciously become what is expected of them. If you only see her as her diagnosis, that's how she's going to act. If you expect her to cheat, she might get to a breaking point of thinking "It doesn't matter if I cheat...he already thinks I do it anyway."

In other words, hon--I don't think that you're a good match for this girl. You might actually be hindering her recovery process with your labels and your mistrust.

I'm not saying that what you're feeling is unfounded. But if you can't see the person underneath the disorder, then I'm afraid my opinion is that you shouldn't be with them.

Breaking up with her isn't going to fix your jealousy/trust issues. You'll have to work on those on your own, regardless of whether or not you're in a relationship (or with whom).

You have a choice: you can work on how you see her and on your trust issues. But if you find that you're unable to do that, it's probably in both your interests to leave her be. Just make it clear that it's your issue, not hers. From what you wrote, I really can't tell if she has actually done anything wrong.

Oh, and if you do tell her that the reason you're breaking up is that you can't see past her BPD, make sure to let her know that there are others who will understand both what she's dealing with--AND that she's a person underneath.

Good luck to you both.

--Frayed

...And you thought your post was long.

--Frayed

The cheating bit:

What do you mean you wouldn't care about it, if it were not for the STD's? Doesn't sound like you value fidelity in a relationship too highly. Just something you might want to question about you. Not to dwell, but the over-riding question with anyone involved in a relationship with a Cluster B is about what issues you have...not the Cluster B.

Borderlines are known to engage in risky behaviours as a coping mechanism (fills the "void", makes them feel something "real", validates their low self esteem, out of sheer loneliness, etc)...promiscuous sex being one of them. Depending on their personal value system or "morals", they may or may not engage in this at all. Some may be promiscuous when not in a serious relationship, and totally loyal when in one.

Borderlines may also cheat on a SO as an insurance policy against their impending feeling of real or imagined abandonment by you (or their pre-emptive breakup with you), and want an emotional fallback. The immediate aftermath of a breakup for a Borderline is devastating, and they would rather avoid that period by having someone already in place to latch onto right away, and then just paint you black. It is these two factors that let the Borderline survive the breakup (or at least seem that way to them).

The other problem, is that even if they don't physically cheat on you, they may be emotionally cheating on you (always flirting with guys, keeping on touch with exes, double standards, etc). This may drive you just as crazy, if not more.

But at the end of the day, while "cheating" may be a higher risk with a Borderline relationship than your "average" chick, I'd say it's the least of your "hypothetical" BPD based problems anyway....there are plenty of other landmines to try and not step on.

None of this matters though, as YOU ALREADY DON'T TRUST HER. Without trust, any relationship is doomed. And usually, it's the Borderline that will have the trust issues.

the second most important issue in this relationship is that you can't see past her BPD.

Well, that's a tough one for Nons. Anyone with serious Borderline traits, isn't going to see past their own BPD generally either, so how can you expect the Non to see what the BPD spends so much energy hiding? And what is there to see anyway...a severely emotionally damaged person? And that is what lies at the core when you pry away the layers of BPD symptoms. After successful therapy, you may end up as a "recovered" Borderline, but that is not what is there before.

Here's an example: there are people who should date persons in wheelchairs, and there are people who shouldn't. Why? Because the people who SHOULDN"T date the wheelchair-bound can't see the person in the chair. Just like you can't see past your GF's BPD.

I'm not too crazy about that analogy, as a physical disability does not in and of itself prevent people from having healthy emotional intimate relationships. Having a disability that in and of itself is a handicap to a healthy emotional intimate relationship obviously poses a problem to having healthy emotional intimate relationships.

Personality disorders are on a grayscale. We all have traits of personality disorders. It's how pronounced those traits are that can create an issue.

Well, I think it is reasonable to assume that if it is serious enough to have you evaluated, and then qualify for a dx as Borderline, then there are going to be "issues". And serious ones. If the symptoms were relatively benign, you wouldn't qualify for a dx.

freshcutgrass,

It's a shame that your black-and-white thinking compromises your otherwise valuable advice. Expect a PM.

--Frayed

Greetings good people.

Apparently Frayed took GREAT offence to my "emotionally damaged" comment.

In the event she is not alone, let me clarify by saying that I was not intending to offend nor imagined this would offend or upset anyone. I was merely pointing out the simple reality that people with BPD suffer from an inability to regulate their emotions, or have emotional developmental problems. We all know this already, but perhaps I should have used slightly less insensitive terminology than "damaged".

Sorry if this offended anyone.

freshcutgrass,

Thank you for being more respectful of the sensitive nature of this forum.

I'd like to correct one thing: It's not necessarily an inability to regulate emotions--it's usually a difficulty. "Inability" is also black-and-white phrasing when it comes to discussing BPD.

Again, I appreciate that you took the time to respectfully re-state your point.

--Frayed

I'd like to correct one thing: It's not necessarily an inability to regulate emotions--it's usually a difficulty.

I guess I will never understand the nature of what drives you to nit-pick on this, but the operative word was "regulate". There's a reason the disorder is referred to as dysregulation of emotions.

For the sake of avoiding semantics, I'm happy with the term "difficulty" if it makes you happier , but the term I used was the entirely correct one.