a 1st-timer NON in need of advice

Hi,

I have been following the forums, and I've even submitted my story at a listserve, and everyone who responded pretty much told me to get out as fast as I can. It was a little disheartening, and I'm guessing that any BP who reads that would possibly feel like there's no hope for a healthy relationship whatsoever. While I've heard their responses, I wanted to run it by another group of experienced people before I make a decision. Here's the abridged scoop:

I've been with a BPD girl for 6 months now. She's 21, and she was diagnosed w/BPD about 2 months ago in an in-patient psychiatric hospital for being suicidal. She has struggled with self-mutilation, manipulation, and the occasional desire to steal, abuse drugs, or restrict food. We've both agreed that, in order for our relationship to work, she would definitely want to continually change AND seek therapy. She's been taking meds and consistently going to an experienced therapist in BPD since she was diagnosed. I've read "Stop Walking on Eggshells". I'm aware that change ultimately rests on her shoulders, that I can't inherently change her, and that treatment would likely take years. I've also started my own therapy as well to stay grounded. In the end, I'd like to believe that while I can't ignore her diagnosis and the traits, I'm not going to leave immediately simply because of the label; I've decided to stick around, at least for now, to see if she improves. Is this foolish?

Again, I've heard the stories of those who have been through years of hell with a BP. I've also read about the latest treatments with DBT and the claims of hope. While I'm not remotely considering marriage with her (definitely if she doesn't overcome the illness) is a "normal" future doomed regardless?

If she's self-aware and able to work independently towards managing her moods, and is able to ask for help when she needs it--and if you are able and willing to help her, then yes, there is the possibility of a future. Depending on her progress, there may even be the possibility of marriage.

I was diagnosed with BPD eight years ago. Your partner's manifestation of this disorder sounds more severe than mine, but there is hope. My fiance and I have been living together, successfully this time, for almost 2 years. We've known each other for 8 years now. It's been a rough road and we both have had our problems. However, we are now a happy couple that support each other, make each other laugh and basically have a normal relationship. The only difference is that most of my energy goes to managing my emotions, so I'm not the best housekeeper in the world, and at best, I'm only capable of working part-time--at least for now.

My advice is to focus less on the label and more on the person. If you expect good things, you are likely to get good things. But nevertheless, you are wise to stay on guard.

I'm not sure if you meant you were following psychforums.com or other forums, but in any case, check these BPD forums again. I think that you will find some self-aware, rational people with BPD who have learned to manage and overcome their issues.

I'm not saying this to give you false hope. I'm giving you a possibility.


I'm interested in something you said, though. You said that you have no interest in marrying her. Yet you are taking steps that show the opposite. You appear to be involved in her treatment, and you have a support system in place for yourself. I find these two things to be at odds with each other. If you don't want to marry her, then why are you with her?

If you were to leave her, how would you do that? Would you drop her like a used Kleenex, adding to her abandonment issues and possibly making it worse for the next guy? Or would you try to make sure that there's a system of support there to catch her? Now that you've read the horror stories (and the worst cases tend to be the most vocal), do you still see her as the same girl you started dating? I'm sure you knew of her problems prior to her diagnosis, and yet you still chose to date her. What changed? If you're going to leave her, then leave her because you don't like HER, not because someone called her a name.

She's not a label, monsieurwill. She's a person. So make sure that you treat her like one. She might surprise you. Or she might turn out like the horror stories you've read. And if that happens, are you going to jump on the forums and blame the disorder? Or would you be able to accept the fact that some people are just assholes by nature?

If I learned one thing in my 27 years on this earth, it's that being an asshole doesn't come from a diagnosis. It comes from being an asshole.

I truly hope that you don't get hurt. But if you do, please don't cry BPD. If you plan on doing that, THEN my advice is "get out now."

I wish you the best of luck, along with patience--and the wisdom to differentiate between the disorder and the person.

--Frayed

Frayed,

Thanks for your honest response. It's helpful to hear that couples are able to make it work and live relatively healthy lives together. I made an error in my first post: I don't mean that I am not considering ever getting married to her. It's certainly a possible future and a purpose of why we are together; it's just that I don't want to be fixated on that to the point where I am blind to any pervasive problems that I don't see us resolving. I'm trying to see her for the person she is rather than a person with simply a label.

Hello again.

Glad I could offer a different viewpoint. Your last post makes things more clear. It makes me feel good to hear that you're giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Just to clarify (and I may have been a little harsh in my original phrasing): I don't think that ALL relationships should or can lead to marriage. Provided both parties have the same goals, I don't see a problem with short-term relationships or even LTRs that both parties know will end. For example, if two people make the agreement to date while in college and then go their separate ways. That's a whole other discussion, though.

I want to add something. Like I said, I DON'T want you getting hurt or your mind messed with--borderline personality disorder or not. I think it's wise of anyone and everyone to remain mindful of how their partner treats them. Also, irreconcilable differences can occur in any type of relationship.

I'm sure that your own therapist will give you the tools you need to get through this in the healthiest way possible. I'd like to reiterate that your girlfriend shouldn't make a federal case out of her diagnosis, either. "I'm acting this way because I have BPD" is not a viable excuse. "I'm acting this way because I'm trying to control my emotions and failing" is a better excuse (assuming she's actually trying). What I'm trying to say is what you already know: allow some room for error, but don't take any $#%^.

Remember that your needs come first. If your needs aren't met, you won't be strong enough for her. I'm not saying that she should or can meet all of them, or the other way around. The wants are secondary. The trick is to figure out which one's which.

Not to put this conversation back on the subject of gloom and doom, but there is a chance that, like any other relationship, yours might not work out. I've already asked that you don't blame the disorder, but don't blame yourself, either. You're right in saying that you can't fix her. Actually, don't blame at all. Figuring out what went wrong is one thing, but focusing blame isn't healthy.

That doesn't mean that you won't have a successful relationship with another person--maybe even with another person with BPD.

That's the what-if stuff, though. For now, you have someone who is going to therapy and trying to be a healthier person. Right now, things seem as good as they can possibly be in the situation. I hope they continue to improve.

Thanks again, Frayed. Your encouragement and wisdom are appreciated. I'm interested in others' thoughts too. Anyone else?

Here's my 2 cents as a Non.

First, when it came to the 6 month mark in our r'ship, I sought therapy with the sole purpose of extracting myself from the relationship. I had no idea what BPD was or that it even existed. I just knew that, for a 6 month old relationship, the nose dive that it suddenly took was bad enough that I had to get out. But the honeymoon period had been so amazing (another Non who thought they found their soulmate chiming in), it was like pulling my own teeth trying to get myself away from this man. And he didn't make it any easier. Boundaries mean nothing to him.

So that is the extremely abridged version of phase 1 of that relationship. Ask any questions and I will gladly answer.

My feeling today is that the kind of commitment you are electing to take on with this woman is foolish considering you've been with her for 6 months. If you were married, that would be a different ball of wax. But you are not and therefore a different level of commitment is appropriate. Not to mention the fact that, if you do have a traditional sense of relationships (monogamous, eventually leading to marriage, commitment, trust, loyalty, etc.) this period is supposed to be spent getting to know each other in a light-hearted way, most likely monogamous, but not officially in a relationship in which you are entering into therapy or taking on any significant burden for the good of your partner or the two of you as a couple. This is a time for trust building and creating intimacy. The relationship should be unfolding slowly and deliberately until you truly know that this is the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with.

If you are not in that place, and you shouldn't be because it's just way too soon, then this kind of "work" that you are doing, not to mention the anxiety and turmoil accompanying a relationship with a BPD, let alone someone who is suicidal, is totally inappropriate. Regardless of whether she has elected to take on serious therapy.

I certainly didn't want to hear any of these things when I was in your shoes, either. But there was something deep inside me that knew the answer and the answer was get away and get into a relationship with someone who was emotionally stable and ready to form a true commitment through building trust and creating intimacy without being too encumbered by his baggage. I chose to experience love in a real way. And so I worked very hard to move away from that man. It took me a year, but it was worth it in more ways I ever imagined.

One more thing...

...the claims of hope.

Those "claims of hope" rather, the possibility of recovery, is for the person suffering from BPD. Not for the Nons. You've already acknowledged that recovery is solely in the hands of the person diagnosed with BPD. Then it naturally follows that recovery is also only possible for the person diagnosed with BPD. It has nothing to do with you and it never will. You are a tertiary character. As has been mentioned in other threads on this forum, as she recovers, she could very well walk away from you, since her perspective will likely shift. Or she will need to face her recovery alone. Or she will find that being in a relationship encumbers her healing process. And she would be correct. She doesn't need you to recover. Chances are she's better off is she can go it alone.

With that said, all of this applies to you, as well. Focus on you. What your needs are. As Frayed mentioned, that is your concern. And I can tell you with 100% certainty that a woman in recovery does not have time, energy or capability to meet your needs. So by staying in this relationship you would have to put your needs on the back burner and that only works for the truly co-dependent which isn't something to brag about.

Chances are you won't walk away right now. It takes awhile. Just know that it's an option and that you are not a failure or insensitive or a cad if you do walk away.

velouria, you make very good points.

I hadn't considered the time frame, because I had a habit of accelerated relationships myself. I was also willing and actually looking to accept baggage. "Carrying it together" sort of thing. I wanted a partner who knew what pain is, who knew how to deal with it and yet remained strong and kind. I found him.

I think that timelines vary from relationship to relationship (BPD and Non-BPD notwithstanding), but I also think your words of caution are well founded. That's a LOT of baggage to take on. Come to think of it, that's more than even I would have taken on while I was searching. I don't think that it necessarily guarantees failure, but the odds are stacked.

Thank you for stating your case in such a respectful manner. As a "non-Non," I appreciate it very much.

--Frayed

Hi Frayed,

That was nice of you to acknowledge I was being respectful. Thank you.

I know I am generalizing with the dating time frame. But let's be honest, an ideally healthy relationship takes a bit longer to develop. For so many reasons. At 6 months, a good frame of reference, most appropriate would be that they are monogamous but still getting to know each other. Monogamous only because they want to focus on each other, not because they want to cling to each other. Is that strict? Maybe. But people in healthy r'ships also have a good sense of boundaries, so they understand what is to be expected and what shouldn't be at that early stage in the game.

And I'm not expecting that a person shouldn't have any baggage. That is magical thinking We all have some, light or heavy. But what the OP is writing about is really heavy. Like you write:

...that's more than even I would have taken on while I was searching. I don't think that it necessarily guarantees failure, but the odds are stacked.

I think there is more both of us could offer on this. It's my bed time so I'll be back with more.

You know what, after thinking about it, I really do agree with your time frame, even if it is a generalization. I just now caught myself confusing "commonplace" with "healthy".

You're right, it does take a while to get to know each other. I never saw the movie "Fools Rush In", but I'm assuming that this romantic comedy ends well. Not so true in the real world.

I think that the main reason my relationship took off and ended up working out was that my fiance and I were in a similar, turmoil-filled "place" at the same time. So we helped each other. We hurt each other, too. It was a rough ride, but we made it. We grew together but maintained our identities. There's a line in a song that goes, "God bless the broken road that led me straight to you." I don't think anything else could be more applicable, lol.

We're both fiercely independent by nature. We have different hobbies. We channel our argumentative natures into neutral topics so that we don't accidentally spar while discussing something important. It kills me to not have a job right now. But he reminds me that there are more important things. He says that the companionship and intimacy that we share when I'm well is more important to him than the little bit of money I could be bringing in--draining all of my energy in the process, leaving none for him. He has even approached me and asked, "What do you think of the job of being a Mom?"

Even though I have issues maintaining my identity, he is one person that makes it easy. First, he is very secure and consistent in who he is. Second, I like who he is, he reminds me of my ideal self, and also of me when I am at my best. Third, he is argumentative and loves to play devil's advocate, so I retain and reinforce many of my core beliefs both by "merging" with him AND by arguing against him.

Huh. Wow. He and I may well be a statistical outlier! I mean, seriously...how many stars have to align in order for all of this to happen?

But, yes, as you can see, I would love to continue the conversation. Once again, I think that your points are excellent. I won't restate them because then I'd have to write them all over again!