what a ruined mind bpd

I agree 100% it is not Jaus who is to blame for anything. I do not think, or did not intend, to suggest otherwise. I think in my prior comment, I was trying to warn of the possibility that when you unpack only part of your suppressed emotional baggage tied to a traumatic event, that can shift your sense of blame, maybe move it from society, a person, whatever, to yourself, and that could lead to the increase suicidality I think you warned about. And I cautioned that this was a temporary vantage, not true perspective, and so to go in recognizing you will have these flawed temporary vantages as you unpack the baggage until you get it all out, and are finally at the ground floor, so to speak. So don't go nuts thinking you should die after unpacking half your baggage. I think (hope?) that is a very unlikely / extreme reaction, not even sure it happens, but obviously since I'm not sure, it is a risk, as you pointed out.

Anyway, no, I would never victim-blame. I think I made clear I think the whole blame-game is flawed and pointless. When you unpack all the baggage, hopefully you then have perspective to stop any blaming. You can lay responsibility, including taking some for yourself (some, not all, and only assuming it is reasonable to do so, not like a 4 year old should take any responsibility for a molestation). But responsibility is not same as blame. I definitely DO disagree with any therapeutic approach that tries to have the victim view themselves in all ways as helpless victim, as that is weak self-image, poor self-image.

I had friend whose teen daughter was sex-trafficked into prostitution and hooked on drugs. She later was speaking to therapist who asked her, "what can you do now to help ensure your daughter back living with you does not go out to join with those people and prostitute herself again?" My friend complained how dare he try to victim blame her. I had to talk to her for a long time to get her to realize that acknowledging you can do things to help fix a situation, or even hypothetically could have done things before had you known, in a perfect world that never exists so don't beat yourself up about it, to stop it from happening before. That is not damaging victim-blaming, it is useful problem solving and getting sense of efficacy over your power to determine the course of your own future.

Also, the problem with going 100% no victim blaming is this: When you try to make some one acknowledge what they did that contributed -- not was to blame for -- but contributed to an event happening, what they could have done differently to protect themselves or a loved one from harm, you are NOT trying to place YOUR blame on them. You are making them search within themselves for the places they most fear to go, where they ALREADY blame THEMSELVES, but they suppress it the most, their sense of failure, self-loathing, self-hatred and anger, why did I let this happen? why didn't I do things differently? Why wasn't I better parent" It's ALREADY THERE. Suppressed. They need to unpack that emotional baggage to be free, to heal. The more they resist even acknowledging the most obvious thing like, "Is everything you did as perfect as it could have been to prevent this, and despite all your perfect actions, it still happened..." Well, no, no one is perfect. We all make reckless decisions that put us in danger, and then villains abuse us. We are not to blame, but we are not entirely without any responsibility. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. We already are beating ourselves up inside over it. That needs to be stopped, healed. This super over-the-top victim coddling model of therapy pretends that wound does not exist, which we know for sure is NOT going to heal it.

And if there is no suppressed self-blame, the person will have no problem talking about what they could have done differently, what they could do now differently to avoid a repeat of that type of incident. It would not generate a heated, defensive, avoidant response. So, yeah, it's not a bad thing to guide a person down the path of looking to see if they feel any responsibility for an event. It is NOT pointing your finger at them and making them feel ashamed and to blame. It is healing. It is treatment. It is therapy. Or at least, I've found it so.

Thanks for your replies. I had read them earlier but thought of waiting for some time before replies. wanted to process the replies.

Here is why you lack motivation:

A lot of people talk about processing emotions. They don't talk about what those get processed into. A processing plant does not take something and delete it. It transforms it into something useful. A resource gets turned into a product. Emotions are the resource. Process them to get motivations.

good analogy.
but idk how to process emotions. it doesnt work when i vent out or exercise as in trying to convert the rage into work out. it doesnt help tbh.

In modern society, we repress emotions to fit in, to conform, to avoid standing out. We repress anger, sadness, laughter, fear, excitement. We repress the $#%^ out of our emotions. So our motivational plant is starving for resources, and so we lack motivation. Why the ###$ should we do anything? Heck, we probably even lack any motivation to kill ourselves.

true. we lack motivation to kill ourselves.

This is worse with BPD because BPD makes social chameleons.

YES.
And its horrible cause i know i'm acting out and it's not me who is talking with the person. its like: imagine the worst possible person u know. the person who is a bully, someone u detest. n suddenly u realize that ur acting like him. the chameleon behavior is not in my control.
i cant control who i end up as or whom i'm impersonating when i'm talking with someone.

its also tiring. i cant act like someone one day n then later say: it wasnt me.
also there are no permanent dreams or beliefs. everything changes all the time. one day i go to gym n want to be a gym trainer, next day i cook food n want to be a chef.

but the main point is not knowing who i am. its like ur impersonating the worst person u know. its like u know someone is a scamster. someone who enjoys fooling others. n suddenly u feel u are him. ur acting like him.

Like, when our personality is forming, ages 3-5 or so, our personalities are like wet clay. We are super impressionable. And this creates the foundation for our personality, as this clay is shaped and hardened in these years. But it will ot harden if it is being stirred up too much, same as cement won't harden in the spinning back of a cement truck. If you had trauma during these years, then for part of the time, your clay was being stirred up too much to harden. It is still soft clay. But after the hardening window passes, maybe age 6 or so, it's too late. Can't go back. Now you are left with some solid personality and some wet clay.

good analogy. yeah a lot of trauma in growing years. tiptoeing around egg shells.

The plus is that the wet clay is still moldable. You can shift your personality to fit those around you and your setting. Heck, you will be doing this whether you want to or not, it's subconscious, just happens.

tbh this is a not a plus side imo. i dont know when to take offense, when to stand up for myself, am i overreacting. idk... i just always adjust to make others feel comfortable.

Non-BPD will think you are phony, because you act one way with them, then later they see you after you have been hanging out with others, re-shaped your soft clay to fit those others, and you seem like different person. Get accused of dishonesty, being fraud, deceptive, etc. But you have no clue why, because you did not even know this was happening, did not notice your personality shift, and just thought everyone kind of was the same way, different masks for different situations.

Well, they are. Everyone has masks like that. But BPD are just the masters at it. We don't just have masks, we are ######6 chameleons, shape-shifters. We do it too well, and without even realizing it.
Well, it's a spectrum. Some might do it a little, some more so.

sometimes the shape shifts to a demon. n because of shape shifting everything is fluid. n the shape of a hero, someone you admire, doesnt come at times.
its like: i enjoy playing the role of person#A and like impersonating him. but when some challenge comes, like i have to decide something, person#A's persona doesnt come all of a sudden and i'm lost like a child.

also i'm unable to decide anything cause there are so many voices in the head.

When we are starving for processed emotions, we turn to the next best resource: Drives. Sex, drugs, money, power, food. External superficial pleasure will lure us, force us to act to get the external reward. If the internal carrots are missing, we need external carrots. That is the addictive state. Now we are an addict, because our lack of processed emotions makes our drives turn ravenous for external pleasures, another form of carrot. If I don't have the internal resolve from processed emotions to do my job well, the external enticement of making enough money to score drugs or hookers or a shopping spree will have to do. (Well, this is oversimplified. Men as a general rule, are more drive-fed, women more processed-emotion-fed, but both need both, and all generally have shortages in the processed emotions.)

yeah... always seeking for external motivation.

Anyway, if you want to crack this nut, here's the first step: Get a few hours or, preferably, days, to spare. Go home, to your bedroom. Lie down, fetal maybe with a pillow between your needs. Does not really matter. Now, try to think of every painful memory, those you LEAST want to think about. If you feel pain from any memory, any negativity, it means you have suppressed, unprocessed emotions linked to it. Once you process emotions from a memory, it ceases to cause pain. Processing a lifetime of suppressed, painful emotions might take a day or less. It is not that long. If you were molested for a year as a child, and suppressed the grief, anger, etc., might take an hour or less to process all of that.

i used to do something similar. imagine i got large wings n close them as if shielding a child.

Is it fun? Is vomiting fun? No, but is vomiting a relief? Yes. When you are nauseous and vomiting, do you want to stop? Hell no! You WANT to purge that $#%^ out of you because it will stop you feeling nauseas. A few moments of vomiting vs. hours or days of ache & nausea? Vomit, of course. A few hours of painful memories, or decades of having an aching, corrupting pus of suppressed emotions inside, tainting all your thoughts, dreams and decisions? Easy choice.

yeah...

Anyway, if any memory causes you pain, stop avoiding it. Dive into it. Exact same as when you have a sore tooth and you probe your teeth with tongue to find it. Probe your memories to find the painful ones, then dive into them and FEEL. Anger, grief, embarrassment, etc. Let it flow. Purge it. Don't let your thoughts try to interrupted, logic your way out of it. This is not a thought process, it is pure feeling. As you feel, you might find words coming out, accusing, confessing, bemoaning, whatever, that's fine, just don't get all cerebral. Keep doing this, from painful memory to painful memory, till you cannot find any more.

i had tried this too. i spoke in the mirror about the issues. relived the memories.

Just remember, the psychological muscles that help you suppress emotions are not gone. They are not even weak. Holding back those emotions made them very strong. You are still very good at suppressing emotions. But like anytime a valve has been stuck open too long, you may need to open and close it a few times, flex those muscles, to get it back to normal responsiveness.

makes sense. be prepared. know ur triggers. avoid people you dont like.

Do that, and then you can suppress your emotions so you don't make a scene. However, I recommend you suppress as little as possible. And if you do, I recommend you set a daily or weekly time to then release any emotions you suppressed during the day, so they don't pile up again.

makes sense.

Well, this seemed to help me as well as a friend of mine with BPD. YMMV. Also, often when you have a room with a huge gross stain on the floor, and you clean the stain away, thinking the room will now be very clean, you instead see that with the stain gone, there are a lot of dirty tissues in the corner, and a trail of ants on one wall, and a crack in a window. Basically, the most glaring mess distracted you from the other, less obvious ones. But with it gone, the others are now standing out. That's fine. You are not cured, not perfect. Just a bit better. Which is the goal. A little better every day.

thanks for this. good analogies there.

We can only carry these things around in our unconscious mind for so long before we become seriously weakened? These repressed memories can control our behaviour more than we realize.

true.

Revisiting such awful memories could push a person already struggling that little bit too far?
I mean, they were originally repressed to avoid further trauma as a coping mechanism.

at times i think: there are so many memories. so many bad ones. so many miniscule that i've forgotten. like the time i was caught travelling ticketless in train. i dont hold onto that memory.

but i hold onto memory of being bullied. maybe i should 'forget' the memory of being bullied, like i forgot memory of being caught travelling ticketless. idk.

Purging can ultimately feel kind of ... well, not good, but cathartic, obviously.

yes.

That can cause us to shift our thinking, our interpretation of past events, who we blame for what. Sometimes, shifting blame from another person to ourselves.

true.
ur so much obssessed with past, at times the interpretation changes. n its no longer objective.

In a perfect world, once you start this process, you would continue till it was ALL out, all purged. Because when you stop half-way, you now have a new, transformed world view that is STILL skewed by the remaining baggage, but to you it will feel like an epiphany, like the blinders finally came off and now you see what was really going on that YOU were really to blame. Or your father. You may then rush off, half-cocked to harm yourself, your relationships, etc.

once the blinders are off. you know what was going on. what after that.
its like u didnt get polio vaccine. after years u realize it was fault of some doctor. but now what... its not like with this realization that it wasnt ur fault, ur clear of polio and can walk again.

i realized many stuff now. but it's 10 years later. i lost many good opportunities at life. i'm never getting them again.

The fact is, you DID have blinders come off, but not all of them, so the picture you see still is not accurate. Is it more accurate? Maybe in some ways, but not the ways that count the most. Only when they are all off, can you really have a good perspective and judgment.

true. we stop removing the blinders the moment we have seen enough to blame others. but when we open the blinders all the way, we see even we were wrong in some places (at least in my case)

I made this mistake myself. As I unpacked repressed emotions and traumas, I would then later reframe my world view, my past actions, tell family and friends how I was changed person, what I had realized. Then a week later, have another session, unpack more, and that further changed my view, and I had to backpedal from what I had said before. Happened enough, I burned bridges & lost some trust with people. I do hope to get it back, it was a learning process. It was not so much that my new releases reversed my thinking, but further nuanced my understanding. Like, I was half right. Then a new release, then a new look at things, see the half that was wrong, correct it, but that correction is only half right. A few days later, further release, see the now 1/4 part wrong, correct it, but that correction is only half right. So I keep getting more right, but still imperfect. Till all the stuff is unpacked, and then there is the "best" assessment we can make. We are still human, we can still be wrong, but now we've reached a foundation of understanding that is not going to be dislodged by further internal revelations.

true. even i would midway think that i'm cured n act like disney level happiness only to crash the next day.

It would be hubris to suggest I knew for fact I was 100% clear of suppressed baggage.

yeah i wanted to be 100% clear of baggage but u start to accept that its not going to happen.

But in a perfect world, all licensed mental health professionals would be good and passionate about their job, and frankly I have known a lot that were burned out, just doing it to get paid, phoning it in, and everything was all about "cya" to avoid potential liability or hassles with insurers.

yeah my 1st therapist was a horrible person. if the appointment was at 6 pm. u were supposed to be at his clinic at 6 pm, enter ur name to the receptionist n then she'd call ur name at around 6:45 pm when ud meet the doc.
in my 1 meeting the doctor was on his mobile as i spoke of my issues. in other appointment, we just spoke for 5 mins hardly.

Don't make my mistake and lose friends/family.

i have already lost them
friends were saying, in 2013, let it go, dont resign. now more than 10 years later, i wish i had listened to them. the effects AFTER the trauma have been worse than the truama itself.
lost so many opportunities of spending good time with friends. lost many opportunites of good friendship with kind people

Give yourself a week after each release to keep probing your psyche for sore teeth before you even think about decided, "Yeah, now I got it figured out."

n even if i have figured it out, dont tell the world of it. it could lead to further drama and arguments.

I think I made clear I think the whole blame-game is flawed and pointless. When you unpack all the baggage, hopefully you then have perspective to stop any blaming. You can lay responsibility, including taking some for yourself (some, not all, and only assuming it is reasonable to do so, not like a 4 year old should take any responsibility for a molestation). But responsibility is not same as blame. I definitely DO disagree with any therapeutic approach that tries to have the victim view themselves in all ways as helpless victim, as that is weak self-image, poor self-image.

i dont think blame game is flawed and pointless. at times it helps preventing the mistake from being repeated.

its more like dont morally judge something, rather judge it objectively. like if going to doc#A, didnt help you. but going to doc#B helped you, you can blame doc#A for causing distress.
blaming doesnt mean ur hanging person to death. nor go on a spree n tell the world of it or shame the person.

like if computer#A doesnt work, but computer#B works, i wont be like: oh no problem. we'll buy computers n laptops from A company cause i believe in forgiving.

I had friend whose teen daughter was sex-trafficked into prostitution and hooked on drugs. She later was speaking to therapist who asked her, "what can you do now to help ensure your daughter back living with you does not go out to join with those people and prostitute herself again?" My friend complained how dare he try to victim blame her. I had to talk to her for a long time to get her to realize that acknowledging you can do things to help fix a situation, or even hypothetically could have done things before had you known, in a perfect world that never exists so don't beat yourself up about it, to stop it from happening before. That is not damaging victim-blaming, it is useful problem solving and getting sense of efficacy over your power to determine the course of your own future.

i agree.
the priority must be: the tragedy must not be occur.
i guess this is a catch-22 situation.
if you dont blame others, you wont come to realization that they are bad people and you wont take steps to save urself from them.

like if i am being bullied at office:
i will blame them to my friend.
if i my friend says: stop blaming them n try befriending them, i'll try to befriend them n further mock myself

but if i blame them n friend says: yeah avoid them
so now i took action to avoid them because i had blamed them earlier.

We are not to blame, but we are not entirely without any responsibility. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. We already are beating ourselves up inside over it. That needs to be stopped, healed. This super over-the-top victim coddling model of therapy pretends that wound does not exist, which we know for sure is NOT going to heal it.

true. i am not guilt-free. i have also erred.

And if there is no suppressed self-blame, the person will have no problem talking about what they could have done differently,

most people get offended when u tell them they were wrong. i guess its natural n should be to some extent. u should defend urself n shouldnt be like someone who gets bullied always.

thanks for the replies.
now there's no suffering n wailing. there's just regret that all this has happened.
i dont expect any disney level happiness anymore. earlier i would. id think: leaving this job, or leaving this country will fix me and give me disney level happiness.

now i realize a job change or country change may improve life from 2 to 5, but wont make it perfect or give ur life issues