A Question About Splitting

Hi

I wonder if anyone can give me some insight on splitting.

In short, my ex and I were working on getting back together after she left me following an argument. She said she missed me and was finding things difficult, but whenever I asked her to come back she was confused and conflicted. I tried to be understanding by not putting any pressure on her, although in hindsight she may have been looking for me to be more assertive about things.

I should add that I never experienced any problems that most people seem to have with partners with bpd. She was always open about her random moods, and usually apologised, and admitted to severe abandonment fears, as well as extreme emotions. I understood and never usually reacted to them, except when we had that argument. So, unlike many cases, our initial break up was largely my fault. In fact the current situation was also my doing, and her bpd characteristics weren't the cause, and only a reaction to my carelessness.

Anyway, I could see she was stressed by things, so called her to say that perhaps I should give her some space. She got angry at that and hung up, and has ignored me since. That was several weeks ago.

I later feared that she mistook my offer of space as me backing off and abandoning her, which was the opposite of what I intended, so last week I sent her an email apologising for my call and asking her if we could speak about it. I even added that it was up to her whether she replied, and that if she didn't I'd understand. She did reply, but in an angry and hostile way, saying that she didn't want to see or hear from me again, and that there must be something wrong with me for not letting go and moving on after being ignored.

Clearly she's painted me black, but I don't know if it's a temporary punishment for the misperceived abandonment, that may pass, or whether it's permanent. It was also odd that she commented on me not moving on after a few weeks, as when we first broke up, she was worried I'd moved on after a few days, and initiated contact and brought up the possibility of reconciliation.

To be honest I'd get it if she'd just changed her mind, but it seems that I've been split black over a misunderstanding. However, I have no opportunity to correct that, as she's asked me not to contact her again and so, no matter how frustrating, I have to respect her wishes. I know she can't help how she feels, and is simply reacting to her perception of my intentions, which I completely understand, and would really like to apologise and clarify what I meant. So, I guess what I'm asking is that once split black, does that anger and apparent hatred ever subside? I understand how it can be a necessary defence mechanism to bury any feelings, but can those feelings resurface enough to at least resume contact? I don't expect to be painted white any day soon, but does the anger pass, and can it be followed by a willingness to discuss things?

Okay so look, like well over 99% of people with BPD were abused by at least one primary caregiver (usually parent) and this is like over 99% what caused the BPD. It's specific types of abuse that are largely psychological and emotional, other types of abuse may or may not be involved. Then typically the BPD will compulsively and subconsciously seek out reenacting that abuse with romantic partners in adulthood.

If we were thinking of it as like, some sort of subconscious narrative, then really quite a while back you were supposed to be a total ahole, abuse her and then abandon her in some way. And it sounds like you're not playing your part very well. You like, try to empathize with her and are patient and $#%^, so there is something "wrong" with you. You get the picture?

This is why a serious relationship with a BPD who hasn't learned how to manage their $#%^ is really, really hard. You either fulfill the role of abusive and traumatic ahole, or you scare the BPD away with all of that creepy love stuff. The nicer you act, the more upset she is getting. Obviously.

So you're gonna need to actually really think about this and then furthermore think about what all of this means for you if you keep pursuing her. Look hell if you really want to play therapist for this gal, maybe just copy/paste this post of mine into an email and then send it to her. Because either $#%^ gets real and she can process it, or you have to become an ahole to get her obsessed with you again. Also FYI, every time one of non-self-managing BPD's come back, the break ups become more frequent and the fights get crazier.

Thanks for replying to my post.

To be honest, whilst I never reacted to her moods, she would often call me an ahole, albeit in a not overly serious way. I'll admit I'm not a particularly emotional person and so, whilst she'd sometimes call me kind, at other times she'd consider me a little dismissive. In fact mostly she would say I was guarded and would try to get me to admit my feelings for her, so there was no creepy love stuff from me. As of now, any kindness or patience is forgotten, and all that's seen by her is that I shouted at her a couple of times in the past, and so she is painting me as some kind of abusive ahole, as a result of me accidentally triggering her abandonment fears.

Even after we initially broke up I didn't chase her, and she got a bit angry that I didn't make much effort to change her mind about leaving. I assumed she'd made her mind up, and left her to it, and she was the one who made contact and started the reconciliation talks. I just said that I wanted her back but it was up to her.

Right now I can't pursue her, as she's told me not to contact her. Nor do I want to play therapist, I can't fix her, and can only provide an environment in which she's either happy or not. Mostly she was happy and, as they were rare, I let her moods and withdrawals pass, and she said I was the only person who wasn't bothered by them. Although they weren't ideal, I imagine they were much worse for her than they were for me, and so I never took it personally.

Right now there's nothing I can do. I guess it would help to understand how such anger works. I know that any contact with her whilst she's feeling this way will only make things worse. However, with time, and a lack of any contact, does that anger remain, grow or begin to fade? Will I now always be a trigger to her?

To be honest, I do really care about her, whether we get back together or not. I know she was really struggling to function and concentrate on work whilst we were separated and talking about fixing things. Now that this seems to be off the table, will she have put it out of her mind and so can function happily again? I do miss her a lot, but if she doesn't want the same, I'd at least like to think she's happy.

Robnew wrote:Anyway, I could see she was stressed by things, so called her to say that perhaps I should give her some space. She got angry at that and hung up, and has ignored me since. That was several weeks ago.

Every BPD is going to be different because we are still all individuals. So any of what you are told here may or may not work with her or even be what she is thinking/feeling. That being said, this above, you giving space, that would be abandonment to me.

Why would I want space if we are trying to get back together and work things out? If I was telling you I was confused and conflicted it would most likely be because my emotions are fluctuating/dysregulated. I may be trying to find that area of grey that everyone says exists.

I would want you to just be there for me and be supportive. Let me know you care. Give me the opportunity to work through it. If you told me you were going to give me space to me that would mean you don't care.

(Sigh. I am writing you all of this and while doing so becoming aware that I recently just did this to someone. I hate having BPD. You get too close and everything becomes distorted. You're always on guard expecting to be hurt.)

Robnew wrote:She did reply, but in an angry and hostile way, saying that she didn't want to see or hear from me again, and that there must be something wrong with me for not letting go and moving on after being ignored.

I say this all the time. I don't mean it ... but I want you to think I mean it while not giving in to what I say I am wanting. Confused yet. Yes, you should be able to read minds. Everyone should.

Robnew wrote:Clearly she's painted me black, but I don't know if it's a temporary punishment for the misperceived abandonment, that may pass, or whether it's permanent. It was also odd that she commented on me not moving on after a few weeks, as when we first broke up, she was worried I'd moved on after a few days, and initiated contact and brought up the possibility of reconciliation.

No one here can answer this. Some BPD's when they are done ... that's it, its DONE. But some BPD's re-idealise. Some BPD's will hold onto you just to keep you in the background. It just depends on the person and on the relationship.

Robnew wrote:However, I have no opportunity to correct that, as she's asked me not to contact her again and so, no matter how frustrating, I have to respect her wishes.

She may not really want you to not contact her. She may be testing you ... or she may really want no contact.

Robnew wrote:I know she can't help how she feels, and is simply reacting to her perception of my intentions, which I completely understand, and would really like to apologise and clarify what I meant.

So give her an apology and explain. You don't have to be with her or talk to her to do that. Sometimes it is best to just write it all down. Explain and then leave it at that. You are giving her control then. Give her time to process it all.

Robnew wrote:So, I guess what I'm asking is that once split black, does that anger and apparent hatred ever subside? I understand how it can be a necessary defence mechanism to bury any feelings, but can those feelings resurface enough to at least resume contact? I don't expect to be painted white any day soon, but does the anger pass, and can it be followed by a willingness to discuss things?

Yes the anger and the hatred will subside, and those feelings if positive can resurface.

mostlyghostly wrote:Then typically the BPD will compulsively and subconsciously seek out reenacting that abuse with romantic partners in adulthood. You either fulfill the role of abusive and traumatic ahole, or you scare the BPD away with all of that creepy love stuff.

I agree with much of what mostlyghostly wrote. A BPD is reenacting the abuse they received in childhood. I need the abusive, traumatic a$$hole, because that most likely represents my daddy, but ... I am looking for that abusive, traumatic a$$hole, to heal me. I need him to not really be an abusive, traumatic a$$hole. I don't want the creepy love stuff but I do want something that looks or feels like love to me and I need that from the abusive, traumatic a$$hole.

You may or may not be able to provide this for her. It may or may not be what she needs. Even if it is it requires a particular type of person. It is not something that can be reenacted with just anyone. I can't speak for every BPD but I am looking for a different ending.

A relationship with a BPD is going to be quite the ride. What you are experiencing with her now you may experience again and again and again. She may continuously test you ... if this is a test.

Thank you so much for your reply, it makes a lot of sense.

The space thing was tricky. The last time we saw each other and spoke of getting back together she said she was confused, and had other things on her mind, such as work pressures and her studies. A week later she had to defer some exams because she couldn't concentrate on anything. It seemed to me that if she wasn't ready to get back together, then giving her a little space to clear her head might help. Of course I didn't want to do that without telling her, as I thought that might be seen as abandonment. It seemed a good idea at the time, with the best of intentions, but can see now how it might have been interpreted.

Who knows whether she means it or not when she says not to contact her, or whether it's a test. The problem is that she's left me no choice. She sounded pretty adamant in her email. I'd love to write and explain, but that has three problems. The first being that I would (probably accurately) be assuming a misinterpretation on her part which, if she's angry she'll not only deny, but will see it as me saying it's her fault. The second problem is that, if she meant it, it would come across as me disrespecting her boundaries and making things even worse. The third is that when she moved out, it was only 5 minutes away, and if she really doesn't want to speak to me again she'll be worried I'll keep persisting and, regardless of what I want, I genuinely don't want to upset her.

So, my last email was it. In it I said that I should have waited to ask her what I wanted. I'm hoping she might eventually question that, especially if she perceived it as me telling her something rather than wanting to ask her a question. I don't know, would that make you think twice once you'd calmed down?

What makes it tough is that most people write saying how their bpd partner acted badly and then left, and are asking whether she might eventually think better of it. In my case she hasn't done anything wrong at all, and the one who has (real or perceived) is me. So, at no point will she have any reason to feel any guilt or remorse, and it's a case of either whether she may realise she might have misinterpreted my intentions, or feel inclined to want to speak to me again.

Maybe she meant what she said, but my hope is that she did it in response to her thinking I was abandoning her, and so my email asking her to talk gave her an opportunity to reject me, and take back control of the situation. Does that make sense and sound reasonable?

Would that make it more or less likely that she might calm down at some point and decide to speak with me, as it would then be on her terms? My only worry is that she thought I'd moved on after a week when we first broke up, and so will probably think I have now. I'm hoping that my email shows I haven't, as otherwise, no matter what she feels, she'll be scared to in case of any further rejection.

I get that it will quite a ride, as she seems to have a mixture of bpd and avoidant traits. She also has extreme separation anxiety. That said, whilst she does constantly test, for the most part things were fine and a lot of fun. I've also learned a lot since we broke up, and have come to realise that most of the things that bothered me were really her just acting on her fears, and things that could be managed with better communication now that I recognise that. So yes, I should be able to read minds, or at least have a better understanding of the mind I'm trying to reading.

I suppose there's little I can do but hope that she reaches out at some point. I'm not optimistic, as she can be quite stubborn. I'm pretty sure she's not happy from what I saw, and so is certainly not indifferent about things. It's just whether that unhappiness might prompt her to see if things can be fixed, or whether it will just consolidate her anger at me.

synchronicity wrote:

Robnew wrote:Anyway, I could see she was stressed by things, so called her to say that perhaps I should give her some space. She got angry at that and hung up, and has ignored me since. That was several weeks ago.

...That being said, this above, you giving space, that would be abandonment to me.

Oh, and I meant to ask, if you don't mind. Would it be usual to not just get angry, but run from such a thing, and then ignore the person and paint them black?

After the call I left her a few days to cool down, and sent a text asking her to call and catch up, which she ignored, so left it for another week, and that was ignored too. At that point I thought it best to leave it to her. At the time I didn't think the call was an issue, or that she might have misinterpreted my intent, and that it was maybe just work pressures.

It was then 2 or 3 weeks later that I bumped into her, which was awkward and frosty, and it was only when we were parting that she raised the call. I hadn't realised it was such an issue, but didn't have an opportunity to explain or apologise properly, as I didn't understand at the time, and she didn't want to talk about it in the street. It was only a week or so later that it dawned on me that she might have misread what I was saying, and so I sent the email to apologise and ask her to talk, which she rebuffed angrily.

My assumption then is that having taken my giving her space as abandonment, she's defended herself by rejecting any attempt to speak to her. Over that period she's no doubt justified her decision by focusing on any and every negative aspect of me and the relationship she can think of. Would that be a fair assessment?

Over time, without choosing to talk to me or hear my side properly, do those negative views just get consolidated and hardened, or do they start to get questioned at some point, and do some of the positive aspects start to be remembered and missed?

I appreciate that everyone is different, and that you can't speak for her, but it really helps to get an outside perspective, from someone who's experienced such feelings.

if i knew the answer to that honestly i wouldn't have relationships problems. there were times that i got angry and split because the other was too distant and didn't chase me and times that i split because he chased me and i wanted space.
so upsetting.
abandon her but never abandon her simultaneously. i am doomed ugh. i think the bpd guy i wanted him very intensely because he managed to do that.to make me feel like that. until we burned all bridges .so i do not really have a solution.

Thanks Julllia

Whilst it's hard from a non's point of view to deal with such situations, I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be for someone who suffers from bpd.

I guess my frustration comes from knowing that she's split me black and is refusing to speak to me from what seems to be a misunderstanding of my intentions, and if she knew what I really intended then things would be fine. So, from my point of view it seems easy, and something that could be easily resolved with a conversation, but she's preventing that. Even more frustrating is that we were so close to getting back together only a week or so before, and she was looking forward to doing things together again.

Essentially though she's made it impossible now for me to contact her, and even seems afraid that I would, as she's cast me as some kind of monster. That's kind of ridiculous as she knows full well that no matter how much I like someone I won't chase or pester them. Her anger at me seems completely out of proportion, even if she did think I was abandoning her, and suggests that she's not happy with the situation and is blaming me. So, is her dig at me for not letting go a possible projection of her own feelings of not being able to let go?

I'm hoping that by respecting her wishes, and leaving her be, she'll eventually stop and re think. Does that happen? Right now, I think I can accurately say that she's in an agitated state, judging from when I saw her a couple of weeks ago, and her angry reply to my email. Is it then possible/likely that she might calm down and want to talk about it? Would she then realise that she made it impossible for me to reach out, and make contact herself?

It's sort of a helpless feeling, knowing that there's nothing you can do, and it's solely down to whether she ever decides to re open the lines of communication. How likely is that? It's natural to think that the longer that doesn't happen, the less likely it will be. I suppose what I'd really like to know is if the good things can be forgotten so easily, and replaced with bad, does the reverse happen at some point?

Robnew wrote:The space thing was tricky. The last time we saw each other and spoke of getting back together she said she was confused, and had other things on her mind, such as work pressures and her studies. A week later she had to defer some exams because she couldn't concentrate on anything.

Everything I say is only from my perspective. She may be completely different in every way from me. I just want to make this clear before I continue. The last thing I want to do is talk for another.

Were there problems in your relationship during this time? I just recently left a relationship and he completely consumed my thoughts. I had difficulty focusing on anything else. He was the center of my universe. It was this way regardless if things were good or bad. There was a lot of push/pull. He was disordered though.

Are you codependent by any chance?

Robnew wrote:So, my last email was it. In it I said that I should have waited to ask her what I wanted. I'm hoping she might eventually question that, especially if she perceived it as me telling her something rather than wanting to ask her a question. I don't know, would that make you think twice once you'd calmed down?

If you emailed her last you have done your part. Explain more to me what you mean about waiting to ask her what you wanted? I am reading that as you trying to manipulate her into talking to you.

Robnew wrote:Maybe she meant what she said, but my hope is that she did it in response to her thinking I was abandoning her, and so my email asking her to talk gave her an opportunity to reject me, and take back control of the situation. Does that make sense and sound reasonable?

Yes. That makes sense and sounds reasonable.

Robnew wrote:Would that make it more or less likely that she might calm down at some point and decide to speak with me, as it would then be on her terms? My only worry is that she thought I'd moved on after a week when we first broke up, and so will probably think I have now.

How long has it been now since she has communicated with you?

Lol. I think that of the man I was with too. That he moved on within a day.

Robnew wrote:That said, whilst she does constantly test, for the most part things were fine and a lot of fun. I've also learned a lot since we broke up, and have come to realise that most of the things that bothered me were really her just acting on her fears, and things that could be managed with better communication now that I recognise that. So yes, I should be able to read minds, or at least have a better understanding of the mind I'm trying to reading.

No. You should not be able to read minds. She is most likely though driven by many of her fears. She may not even be aware of this. The fears I have are overwhelming. When I am "triggered" there is another voice in my head telling me how stupid I am, how much of a f@ck up I am, how I should have known better, why would he want you, you're not good enough ... its just one negative thought after another and the voice is louder than me.

I don't know if that makes sense to you.
I don't know if she experiences that.

That voice takes over because I f@cked up. I let my guard down. I was vulnerable. That is why I hurt. Its because I was careless. I was weak. Then I become confused because there is no peace in my head. It was my fault. It was his fault.

This is lightly how I think as a BPD.

Robnew wrote:Oh, and I meant to ask, if you don't mind. Would it be usual to not just get angry, but run from such a thing, and then ignore the person and paint them black?

Yes. When I do this its because I am trying to separate myself from my hurt/pain.

Robnew wrote:My assumption then is that having taken my giving her space as abandonment, she's defended herself by rejecting any attempt to speak to her. Over that period she's no doubt justified her decision by focusing on any and every negative aspect of me and the relationship she can think of. Would that be a fair assessment?

Were there other issues in the relationship that you were aware of?
Had she wanted out of the relationship any prior to you saying this?

Yes it is a fair assessment that she is focusing on everything negative. Focusing on the positive would hurt. Or she may be trying to just forget you all together.

Robnew wrote:Over time, without choosing to talk to me or hear my side properly, do those negative views just get consolidated and hardened, or do they start to get questioned at some point, and do some of the positive aspects start to be remembered and missed?

If someone was significant to me ... I remember ... and I miss ... and then I try to again focus on the bad ... because it just hurts too much to remember and to miss.

Thanks again synchronicity, I really appreciate your help, and understand that it's from your perspective, but it helps a lot to gain some insight.

As far I could tell, there were no other problems. Her biggest issue about reconciling was that we were no longer living together after she moved out, and that she found the days apart to be very painful. She did want to try and manage it though. She had the same problem before we lived together, and sometimes wanted to end things because of it, but I think she wanted me to persist, as she was always easily persuaded. Even the reason for her initially leaving (ie me shouting at her), was a little bit of an excuse, as she later admitted that she thought I might be losing interest, and so I suspect she was looking for an opportunity. In fact she never brought up my shouting at her again since, except now when she's painting me black, and as someone that loses his temper with her. Other than that things were great and she loved how I could handle her moods. During the break up period, she too admitted that she had trouble thinking about anything else, and could focus on anything.

I don't think I'm co dependant. Sure, I miss her a lot, but have never chased her, and always told her that whilst I wanted her, I'd always accept and respect any decision that she made. I think mostly she found me a little aloof and guarded. And yet now she's berating me for not letting go after being ignored. Go figure. In truth, I would let go, if I knew that she had no interest, but hate to think it's just over a misunderstanding.

By asking her what I wanted, I meant I should have waited to ask her about whether I should give her a bit of space. Maybe that is trying to manipulate her into talking to me, but that could only be the case if she misunderstood my intention. If she took it at face value, and as I intended, as a genuinely concerned offer of space, then it's pretty straightforward, with nothing to discuss or think about.

Our last communication was the email exchange, which was just over a week ago. Prior to that we bumped into each other in the street just over a week before that, which prompted my email. The telephone call to give her space was about three weeks before that, during which she ignored the two texts I sent her. How long does it take for such anger to pass, and a more open attitude to potentially surface?

I assumed that she'd moved on and forgotten things until we met and she mentioned my call. That suggests it's still a very sore point, given she's still pretty angry, rather than indifferent.

It does make sense, although the way it's handled makes it feel like I'm the one who isn't wanted. She reacts very quickly to perceived rejection. Once, after a happy dinner, I went to pay and said I'd walk her home, and she suddenly snapped at me. I was surprised, and she then quickly calmed down and laughed and admitted it was her abandonment issues and thinking that I was trying to get rid of her early. This seems like a similar reaction, only I wasn't there to calm and reassure her, and she hasn't given me the opportunity to since.

I can see how it's easier to focus on the bad. However, if the other person who inadvertently triggered those fears, apologised and wanted to talk about it, would the fact that you missed them cause you to want to speak to them once you'd cooled down. Would the good feelings and the missing be able to overcome the attempts to shut them out and push them away? I mean I'd get it if I openly rejected her but, given that it was ambiguous at best, wouldn't you at some point wonder? Wouldn't you be in the least curious to hear what they had to say?