OCPD and BPD?

Does anyone else here have OCPD or strong traits of it and BPD (or traits of BPD)?

A psychiatrist said that I may have BPD last year, another one said I have traits, but more recently my psychologist suggested that the main issue is traits of OCPD. She won't go as far as saying whether I definitely have it and she can't diagnose (she doesn't believe in formal diagnoses such as the ones a psychiatrist would make anyway).

How would BPD and OCPD get confused with one another? They both have black and white thinking and issues with emotional regulation, but the emotional regulation with OCPD is more about being generally uncomfortable with it (in self and others), not being able to express emotions and generally being uptight.

I'm basically confused, as I have OCD and part of that was an obsession about having various PDs, but I told my psychologist that I wasn't worried about having OCPD and then she proceeded to point out how I exhibit a lot of the traits and that they cause problems for me.

I think I had more BPD traits when I was a teenager and in my early 20s, but maybe not so much now. I can't really see the OCPD in myself, but have read the horror stories about people with OCPD and from their 'victims' and hope to god I'm not that bad. I don't try to inflict my way on others (although obviously I do feel my way is best deep down) and I'd feel guilty if I did so.

Can anyone shed any light on this, or does anyone else have traits of both?

I know a little of your story, CloudShark.

From my understanding you were diagnosed with BPD during a manic episode, by the emergency psychiatrist?

And your regular psychiatrist did not agree with that diagnosis at all.

I think BPD is a diagnosis that is frequently given to women when they present in the psychiatric ward during a crisis state. This is only my opinion though, since I don't know what all the reasons were that the doctor chose to give you that diagnosis. However, I would put more weight on what your main psychiatrist thinks, the one that knows you better.

I don't think BPD and OCPD overlap in many ways. BPD I think of more as wild and unpredictable mood swings, catastrophic thinking, paranoia, unstable relationships, suicidal thinking, etc.

OCPD is more about rigid control over one's environment, obsession with cleanliness and rules, routines, etc.

There is really not much overlap as far as I can tell.

I would give my own experience but I am not formally diagnosed with a personality disorder. I relate more to BPD, although I think my father has OCPD. He can have rage and wild mood swings, but they are more triggered by his fearing losing control of others and his environment, rather than concerns over abandonment, or random mood shifts.

I don't really have that many traits of OCPD I don't think. But I definitely have OCD (which I know if different). I have some traits BPD but I don't know if I have it. Mostly emotional instability/bad at controlling my emotions and history of making poor/impulsive decisions.

I don't see much in common between between OCPD and BPD. I mean I can see a lot of differences but also potentially similarities... But I don't know that much about OCPD to be honest.

I have recently been thinking though that my BPD tendencies could actually be explained by my OCD (and PTSD in the last couple of years). I have obsessive/intrusive thoughts which then can make depressed, irrational, emotional and suicidal. I actually end up having outbursts, not being able to control my emotions because of my OCD (at least in part). I also make impulsive decisions as a reaction to obsessive/intrusive thoughts in order to try and get rid of them and the horrible emotions caused by them etc. I've recently realised this. It's like another OCD compulsion but on a larger/more complex scale. But then the impulsive irrational actions/decisions will then be the next thing focus of my obsessive/intrusive thoughts and so it goes on. Instead of just dealing it and waiting for it to pass and dealing with it in healthy ways. So I don't know if it is partly my OCD as I explained as well as BPD too. Or if I just seem to have BPD for other reasons such as OCD. But yeah I think that shows how OCD and BPD could be similar at least... Not sure about OCPD and BPD though.

It's quite common for the various mental illnesses to have overlapping traits/symptoms. That's why I think it's important to understand the specific disorder and use the traits/symptoms to support that disorder rather than looking at the traits first and coming to the conclusion of bpd or whatever.

BPD:

The disorder occurs in the context of relationships: sometimes all relationships are affected, sometimes only one. pervasive pattern of instability in relationships, self-image, identity, behavior and affects often leading to self-harm and impulsivity.

There's going to be a pervasive pattern which occurs over the course of time. It's not going to be 1 or 2 instances. I can trace my behavior as far back as around 7th grade which continued into later teen years, into my 20's etc. It's highly likely the person would have fears of abandonment and problems with identity.

OCPD:

is a personality disorder characterized by a general pattern of concern with orderliness, perfectionism, excessive attention to details, mental and interpersonal control, and a need for control over one's environment

So it would be possible for a person to split someone if that person, probably of authority, forced them out of their controlled environment. It has nothing to do with bpd because the splitting was a result of being taken out of their environment. It had nothing to do with identity or being fearful someone was going to abandon them.

If the root cause is someone trying to take you out of your pattern or specific ways of doing things or your routine it would most likely be related to OCPD. The traits of OCPD are going to be triggered by the anxiety of being taken out of your environment. If you have emotional outbursts affecting relationships that has nothing to do with ocd type behavior, and you have fears of being abandoned then it would most likely be more related to bpd.

BPD is a cluster b disorder which are dramatic, emotional or erratic disorders
OCPB is a cluster c disorder which are anxious or fearful disorders

Thanks MotherRussia. Yes, that was me with the manic episode and I saw the locum who said he thought it might be BPD. It was dysphoric mania and so I had made an 'attempt' and I was very angry and had set fire to a load of my stuff. Wow! that's the first time I've admitted to torching my things in a massive bonfire to anyone apart from medical professionals, although Mr Shark was there.

Oddly, I also think my dad has OCPD. I was talking to my psychologist about how when I was a kid, I'd get 85% on a test and feel pleased about it. However, my dad would lecture me for hours that evening about how "Good isn't good enough" and that I could have done better.

Then there's the fact that he has weird OC behaviours. also, his opinion is always the right one! My brother is too scared to tell him that he voted to leave the EU in the Brexit referendum as my dad wanted to stay! My brother is in his 30s.

@ lyratheowl - My psychologist started treating me for OCD and then she suggested that it might be a more pervasive pattern of perfectionism and preoccupation with details and routine. I have definitely had issues with upsetting intrusive thoughts and ruminations. OCD can get pretty terrifying and I'm not surprised that you've had trouble controlling your emotions because of it. I get very anxious.

@ cboxpalace - I know what you mean about looking at the traits and behaviours of a disorder in context.

During my last episode I was very concerned about my 8 year relationship ending. I was told that was a fear of abandonment. However, I wasn't able to work at the time and I have a house with my partner. I was actually worried about what would happen to the house if we split up. Would I have enough money? What would I do about work? All of this seems pretty normal to me. Who wants an upheaval like this when you're going through a bad patch?

We were in danger of splitting up because he didn't know how to handle the way I was being. I don't remember a lot of it, but apparently I was awful to be around, I spent loads of money on antiques and then started buying random crap that I was just throwing away. I was angry and foul to everyone, and as I said earlier, I set fire to a load of things because my friend had offended me and she asked to borrow some things. So, I decided to just burn them so she couldn't borrow them. I was so angry that I just thought "###$ it! Why not just burn loads of other stuff whilst I'm at it as I'm going to kill myself anyway."

I suppose that could look a lot like someone who can't regulate their emotions and impulses and who is completely out of control. It could be a BPD episode and not bipolar. However, I've only been like that the one time.

My psychologist mentioned that I was using defense mechanisms such as intellectualisation, isolation of affect, undoing and reaction formation and she said that isn't BPD, it's something else. Since reading about OCPD I know that these are classic defense mechanisms for that disorder.

She said that my year long obsession with PDs and researching them obsessively was a way to deny my anger at having my life and work disrupted by the bipolar episode. she said that she would think it was more 'normal' to simply feel upset and angry about the whole situation, rather than incessantly researching BPD and other PDs.

That said, I still don't think I display stereotypical OCPD behaviour. So, maybe it is BPD?

Sorry to ramble on.