Gaslighting

Philonoe wrote:It can be about facts. In my mind, it can be about intentions too : "i do it for you" (and the "it" is destructive")

or "i do it because of you" (instead of taking responsibility for their choices)


I don't know if call it gaslighting, or is there an other word?

I don't think that qualifies.

Gaslighting requires denial of objective reality. Feelings and intentions are a very subjective thing. There has to be an intentional denial of the facts.

Philonoe wrote:It can be about facts. In my mind, it can be about intentions too : "i do it for you" (and the "it" is destructive")

or "i do it because of you" (instead of taking responsibility for their choices)


I don't know if call it gaslighting, or is there an other word?

Good question. This sounds like something that would typically happen during an abusive relationship; sort of like blame shifting, maybe even a form of projection?

I would call it emotional abuse. Maybe it can be a form of gaslighting. It would depend on context.

I think gaslighting is always emotional abuse, but emotional abuse is not always gaslighting. There will be overlap though and maybe sometimes it could be hard to distinguish the two.

Like the case of a man who hits his wife, and then tells her she made him do it because such and such.... Its clearly abuse, but if that were to cause the wife to doubt her perception of reality, it could also be gaslighting I suppose.

I think anything that causes someone to doubt their perception of reality could be considered gaslighting...but the intent has to be there.

MotherRussia wrote:sort of like blame shifting, maybe even a form of projection?

This exactly.

Like the case of a man who hits his wife, and then tells her she made him do it because such and such....

Yes. Or "You are responsible for me cheating on you"

I think anything that causes someone to doubt their perception of reality could be considered gaslighting

The distortion of reality is rarely as clear as in your car's story, with the pack of cigarettes thrown out the window.
In that case there is material evidence : the pack was there. So it wasn't thrown.

Most of the time there isn't such evidence. Like in the second part of the story. They may accuse you of hiding the pack of cigarette. You can't oppose any evidence. If they didn't find it, of course it's because it was hidden. Thus it's you. And if you don't remember, sure it was unconscious.

So they see inside you better then you. Which seems to me the base of such dynamics:

No matter what you say, no matter what you feel, they see your bad intentions better then you. That justifies any of their actions.
They are victim.

(i found this example of the pack of cigarettes very speaking)

...but the intent has to be there.

Still not sure if there is clear intent (but as I said, it's a very confusing question to me).

My husband is a (self aware) covert narcissist and we talked about this today. He told me that he never viewed his gaslighting as particularly harmful to me at the time he has done it, and instead was more preoccupied with not looking bad, or being exposed. He even said at times he did it as a form of not only protecting himself, but me also - as he truth was far too painful, and could lead to him being abandoned. Other times he was just far too consumed with himself to even consider the harmful effect it could have on me. So that is why it would be more alarming to him when I would have my borderline rage and become violent, due to being so triggered.

He could never understand the crazy making that it does, until he learned through therapy that it's the exact thing that has damaged him so severely as far as his mother is concerned. Learned behavior I guess you could say. He's a lot better with it now days now that he has more self awareness and also knows the outcome of gaslighting me is usually not good at all. It triggers me terribly and turns me into a monster.

is that where a light my farts?

Joe, lol

I've been gaslighted by my ex but I left him so that was the end of that.

imho a lot borderlines are to paranoyed to know what's real and what's ... overreacting
no offens

madjoe wrote:imho a lot borderlines are to paranoyed to know what's real and what's ... overreacting
no offens

No offense taken here, I'm not borderline =]

is seducing someone gaslighting?

madjoe wrote:is seducing someone gaslighting?

Are you intentionally trying to get them to question their perception of reality and objective fact?