Who here qualifies for the psychopathic side of BPD?

And who does not?

I'm curious to see if the emotional dysregulation and attachment issues always go hand in hand with the lack of empathy, narcissism, compulsion for destructive and sadistic actions, excessive anger, manipulation for personal gain, disrespect for other's rights, excessive preoccupation with status and other antisocial/narcissistic behaviors associated with other "dramatic and erratic" PDs.

I firmly believe BPD has at it's core the same issues other Cluster B PDs had with, for the lack of a better term, psychopathy. But since they're not even in the criteria anymore, and pop psychiatry is recognizing BPD as an emotional dysregulation disorder mainly, I would like to know if there are really people who just fall under lack of emotional control (broad, I know, but I think you see where I'm getting at) and attachment issues (insecurity, clingy, need to be in a relationship, yadda yadda) and do not have the traits more commonly associated with NPD, ASPD and HPD have.

Input regarding your own relation with your BPD would be just awesome.

twistednerve wrote:....

I'm curious to see if the emotional dysregulation and attachment issues always go hand in hand with the lack of empathy, narcissism, compulsion for destructive and sadistic actions, excessive anger, manipulation for personal gain, disrespect for other's rights, excessive preoccupation with status and other antisocial/narcissistic behaviors.........

I would like to know if there are really people who just fall under lack of emotional control (broad, I know, but I think you see where I'm getting at) and attachment issues (insecurity, clingy, need to be in a relationship, yadda yadda) and do not have the traits more commonly associated with NPD, ASPD and HPD have.

Input regarding your own relation with your BPD would be just awesome.

I have some, but very little of what you spoke of (i.e., I do have some attachment issues, etc). But I have none of the lack of empathy, compulsion for destructive and sadistic action (although I am very OCD), excessive anger (which I attribute to working very diligently to eradicate this side of my old self), manipulation for personal gain, disrespect for others' rights, and other anti-social behavior...

I have the typical attachment issues and lack of emotional control. I also have excessive anger (at least around people I love and trust...social anxiety and fear of other people's opinions keeps me in check for the majority of my social encounters) and disrespect for other people's rights (I've destroyed some of my family's stuff and stolen things from friends and family) and manipulation for personal gain (this one I'm not so sure about because I'm young, and in my experience, most people my age at some time or another try to manipulate their family and partners...don't get me wrong, I know it's wrong. But I'm not sure if this is so much a sign of the psychopathic side of BPD or just because I'm a young adult who struggles with selfishness to the same extent that a lot of people do). I wouldn't say I'm totally lacking in empathy (was crying tonight because I felt deeply for a friend's personal issues they were going through), but it is slightly off (I have been secretly gleeful when people in my life - very nice, kind people - have had things go wrong for them...or hoped they would go wrong). I'm not narcissistic though, and I don't have any of the other stuff. It sucks to have behaviours like this. I know my actions are wrong in hindsight, but they don't feel wrong to me in the moment, so it's hard to be self controlled.

I could have a few words on the subject, but since I don't have any kind of official diagnosis. It wouldn't be qualified.
Interesting topic though.

as far as i understand it psychopaths ppl on autisc spectrum schizoids and psychotics are the onlyu once who can have constand low empathy
the rest has sometimes lesser ampthy
i personly think that all cluster B's are about the same and psychopath is a hole difrend animal
(and i mean psychopathy not aspd)
clsuter b = one spectrum
(like pdnos aspie and as)

15%-20% of incarcerated borderlines score in the severe psychopathy range.

Psychopaths with many narc traits plus a little HPD are the least anxious and the most prototypical primary psychopaths followed by psychopaths with only many NPD traits (as groups). BPD + psychopathy is going to be different. They'll tend to be high anxious psychopaths.

...And of course the one time I didn't copy my reply was the one time it had to log me out and delete my response.

Anyways, to summarize: Yes. Yes, I am definitely more on the psychopathic side.

- Lack of empathy? Check.
- Narcissism? Sometimes. Half-check.
- Compulsion for destructive and sadistic behaviour? Without doubt, a checkmark.
- Excessive anger? Check. However:

yertle_the_turtle wrote:(at least around people I love and trust...social anxiety and fear of other people's opinions keeps me in check for the majority of my social encounters)

- Manipulation for personal gain? I have no idea...maybe sometimes. I suppose it's a 'no' then, unless I do it so often that I'm not aware.
- Disrespect for others rights? Ehhh... Sometimes. Half-check.
- Excessive preoccupation with status? In a way I do, I guess. Half-check.

Ugh, the struggle! My answer was so well formulated and beautiful...

Beyond Repute wrote: BPD + psychopathy is going to be different. They'll tend to be high anxious psychopaths.

This only make sense at American DSM. The World Health Organization states that this diagnosis are mutually exclusive.

Also at original Clekey work, psycopaths are definitly not anxious.

What differs?

I think the disocial must have this exclusive characteristc in red

ICD-10 wrote:
F60.2 Dissocial
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.


F60.3 Emotionally Unstable
F60.30 Impulsive type

At least three of the following must be present, one of which must be (2):

marked tendency to act unexpectedly and without consideration of the consequences;
marked tendency to engage in quarrelsome behavior and to have conflicts with others, especially when impulsive acts are thwarted or criticized;
liability to outbursts of anger or violence, with inability to control the resulting behavioral explosions;
difficulty in maintaining any course of action that offers no immediate reward;
unstable and capricious (impulsive, whimsical) mood.

So looking at criteria alone they may overlap, but the lack of remorse is typical of the dissocial.

Is there a psychopathic side to BPD?

Maybe there's just a BPD side to psychopathy...

I suggest this because BPD may do psychopath-like behaviours at times...but they feel guilt/remorse after

madjoe wrote:as far as i understand it psychopaths ppl on autisc spectrum schizoids and psychotics are the onlyu once who can have constand low empathy
the rest has sometimes lesser ampthy
i personly think that all cluster B's are about the same and psychopath is a hole difrend animal
(and i mean psychopathy not aspd)
clsuter b = one spectrum
(like pdnos aspie and as)

Madjoe is right about this. The no affect, no emotion, no remorse psychopath is most likely a commorbity or not even an exclusive diagnosis at all.

Most serial killers qualify for either BPD or NPD, BPD being even more prevalent than NPD.
In prisons, a high ammount of people have BPD, including males.

Most "every day" psychopaths have more BPD traits than anything else. BPDs aren't a tornado of emotion all the time, not at the surface at least. They can be extremely methodical and planning when carrying out their aggressive behavior.

So we're having a semantics problem here: to clarify, by psychopath I meant:

Narcissist
Low empathy
Extremely preoccupied with status
Aggressive
Capable of destructive acts towards others, be them physical aggression, verbal or any way they can inflict harm - in a premeditated or impulsive form.
Manipulative with frequency
Capable and willing of doing things that disrespect people's physical, financial and emotional integrity
Puts personal gain or the gain of "allies" above the law
Sees some people as not the same as other humans (some as superior people, others as objects)
Has periods of emotional flattening and compulsions to seek stimulation (drugs, food, interpersonal drama, violence, etc.)
Extremes of emotions that pertain to the social sphere being the most genuine and aparent
Black and white thinking and overall other forms of animal-like behavior
Frequent use of "personas" to deal with people

and so on