I want to quit DBT. I know it would not be effective but..

Problem 1: My therapist has been very cold with me lately. I know I make mistakes and have done something wrong 'but' he has been very cold and I don't want to see him.

I believe there is no alternative for me, as in other therapists would just no be an effective match.

I just got off a coaching call with him because I was having a hard time practicing skills and he was very cold.

I understand that they are cold when they disapprove as a way of discouraging certain behaviors, but it seems like it has gone over the line.

I really want my therapist to be warmer to me and more approving and such.

Problem 2: I keep ruminating about what happens in every group. I make so many mistakes, by saying things that I assume people judge me for. Half of the time I don't know what I am talking about but am compelled to say something and then ruminate about it for days because I realize it was incorrect.
I am suffering a lot when going to group.

DBT helps though, it is very helpful and I want to keep going.

Problem 3: I believe my therapist is somewhat incompetent. I believe the program is somewhat incompetent and could be one a lot better.

In particular my therapist has made very little effort to understand me. It was instant diagnosis and then churning me through the system.

I try to explain things about my life but he seems to not really care much and mostly wants to focus on skills training. I think he might even potentially misdiagnose me.

I am a very complex person, and somewhat an outlier - even for borderlines.

That is a different story.

Why I am posting:

What should I do about an overly cold therapist? I want to get a new one but I don't think that is possible.

What should I do about the suffering group and my sessions bring? Other than practicing skills from the manual.

I need something more than skills from the manual. I need some help with some new technique for walking through this difficulty.

I am on the verge of quitting.

What should I do if I have a rather incompetent therapist?

I understand that I probably should just accept their incompentence and mistakes and continue going for myself rather than to get approval. I just a having a hard time with this.

I have been in DBT for around a year and it seems to be getting worse.

I swear my therapist just doesn't like me or want to deal with me.

I know there are not 'the facts' yet it seems so plausible that I see of them as almost facts and relevant enough to ruminate about.

I am ruminating about this. I have been practicing skills and am still ruminating.

I don't want distress tolerance advise, or emotion regulation, I want to process this and let it go and move on.

I need help processing this and letting go. I need help figuring out a solution.

I have skills for distress tolerance and am willing to use them, and probably will in a minute here as I am suffering. I want to process this though. I want to let it go. On top of this I am ruminating about other things, but those are for other posts as they are not related to quitting DBT.

Any insight?

Hi, congrats for being in DBT for a year . You mentioned you feel that your therapist is incompetent but also how you dont think you will find a more effective match. Did you try to bring the issues up with him?

I don't even know why I posted. I think I know the answers already. Perhaps I am just being dramatic, sometimes I really cannot tell when I am blowing things out of proportions just because I want attention.

As for my therapists in incompetence, or perceived incompetence, I am probably just misunderstanding him.

I don't understand why they do not ask more questions for one. I am so scatterbrained (I know, a judgmental label and somewhat unrealistic label) that I don't really think to communicate the information I need.

I had a problem behavior that I told him about for example, one that interferes with therapy, and I told him about it. During the next session he wanted to talk about other things and for some reason it was never brought up again.

Months later I brought it up and he was 'suprised' that the problem behavior was still ongoing.

He ended up doing the 'cold disapproving' look the whole session.

I asked about it and he lied to me saying I was misjudging his expression.

He said he thought I had resolved the problem behavior on my own.

Next he tells me it is a fact that he knows how the mind works and I am wrong about my hypothesis related to psychology simply because he has a degree and authority. He laughs at my ideas.

He laughs at me a lot actually.

I was married to a person who studied evolutionary anthropology. I study AI. I am not automatically wrong simply because he has a degree. I do know something about what I am talking about. I understand the point is not to theorize but to practice skills and there is no place for discourse related to models for emotion but I don't like it when he laughs at me and tells me I am wrong and he is right because he is the therapist.

For example they use a certain model to explain emotions. Our DBT program uses the standard model from the manual.

My therapist swears up and down that the model they use was basically proven. He tells me in sessions that they know how the mind works, that DBT uses cutting edge modern theory and correctly models emotions. He laughs at my theories about motivational systems and agent based models for emotion and morality.

It bugs me because I was asked to coauthor a paper about emotions involving mind modelling once. It bugs me that I am automatically invalidated in terms of my paradigm because he is the authority and DBT knows all.

They use a freaking model from the 90's. It is still one of many models. That damn workbook is like 20 something years ago. Yet they supposedly figured everything out.

Not very validating.

Today he asked me what skills I used to deal with some painful emotions, and I said the first thing I did was to try to 'process' the painful emotion which was embarassment. I described not pushing it away and listing off the facts and letting myself experience the emotion just like they describe.

He said in a cold voice: "that is not DBT"

Then he asked again if I had used any DBT skills.

-- Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:54 am --

Sorry, I guess I did not really respond to your message and just listed off why I feel he is incompetent. Well I guess a small set of some of the reasons. I have many other reasons for feeling the staff is incompetent.

I know they are not perfect. I know they are still learning. I know they are not there to understand how the mind works but rather to teach the skills from the manual.

To answer your question: I don't think there is a better match because I know most of the DBT therapists and feel they wouldn't be as effective with regards to certain dimensions.

Some of them I think I would be rather uncomfortable with because of how our interactions go in group session.

Some of them scare me. Or the thought of having them as a therapist is intimidating.

I also don't want to start over with respect to a relationship with my therapist. I would have to communicate a lot of information to them.

I just wish my therapist would stop acting the way he is acting and telling me I am wrong so often and laughing at me so often.

I also wish he asked more questions. Is it my responibility to bring things up?

I told him I was ruminating about my past, about things that happened in high school.

He did not want to hear about it. He wanted to talk about my homework.

He doesn't know about some of the most traumatic things that have happened to me.

I am also upset at our DBT program tonight ( I am very emotional and stressed out right now and somewhat manic) because of a upsetting coaching call experience.

I really cannot stop ruminating about a number of things, and have been using skills and needed assistance.

I cannot focus, I am in my head, I keep getting distracted from the skills I am using.

I wanted to make a coaching call because I am emotionally suffering and wanted to get help walking through some skills.

I called the number I was given. It was supposed to be a 24 hour number to make crisis calls that I could also call to make a coaching call if needed. They usually contact a DBT staff member.

The number rang and rang. I let it ring maybe 15 or 20 times. I called multiple times.

Finally I called the crisis line in the next county over. After a bunch of BS telling them my information and confusion about what was going on they said they would resolve it and get a DBT therapist on the phone.

It was my therapist. He sounded very cold with me. He was very short with me. He did not want to listen to me about what was going on and gave me a suggestion that was not effective.

I did not call back.

Don't quit DBT. Leave that practice. Your therapist sounds like an a$$hole. Therapists to be understanding and patient, especially those treating PwBPD. I used to call my therapist all the time for phone coaching. She eventually had to talk to me about not having phone coaching sessions that lasted more than 15 min but she was really sweet about it and actually encourages me to call now, as I've been out of therapy for a bit and didn't call her the last time I was feeling awful and couldn't cope. I love everyone at the practice. My class is taught by a different person and he's great. It was taught by someone else before who moved and she was also sweet and intelligent. It's expensive, but I love my practice. I feel like a year to two years of expensive therapy is worth it for me. Serious, get away from this invalidating crap therapist and see someone who is actually in DBT because they believe in it and helping their patients and not the money.

I agree. It doesn't souendas though your therapist os practicing DBT themselves. You should ask for someone different becayse you are worth more. Don't give up. And it does sound as though you were practicing the skills to me anyway. Processing the emotion can be seen as practicing DBT.

Hi eudaimonobot,

If it's possible for you to find another DBT therapist, that might be worthwhile doing. Mostly because if you feel you are not progressing having worked for a year with that therapist, then maybe you two just don't click? A change might be worthwhile if you are stuck in a bit of a rut and don't feel like you're getting anywhere.

I've been doing DBT for two years now with a couple of different therapists. One I had a great relationship with. The other not so much, but he is really knowledgeable and I know he's helped me even though we haven't always hit it off. It depends on what options are available to you (you may not be in a position to leave) but it's always worth trying someone else if you have found that the dynamic isn't changing.

The thing with DBT though (in my opinion only) is that it is very much present moment and skills focused. They might ask about things from your past to get an understanding of your triggers/how you think/process things, but it's not designed to really solve those. It's not really a talking therapy to help you come to peace with your past.

I've felt a lot like you. That you want to talk about it so that you can move on and stop the ruminating. But the skills are really the focus especially during the modules. It really is just learning the skills and discussing how you've applied them or could apply them. In part, even if you disagree with the material (I know I did at times!) you kind of have to accept it because there aren't a lot of alternatives. That's easier said than done. I didn't really accept it consciously. More fought it for two years before giving in.

I'm not trying to say that your therapist is great either. Laughing at your ideas. Telling you that DBT's model are fact etc. That seems like no way to build a relationship with you. While DBT works for a lot of people it has to be done well and depending on who you are seeing, it may not be in your case.

But it does help people so try to stick with it. Don't be afraid to move on even if it means telling your story all over again. There will be a few weeks where it feels like starting over, but it might be so worth it. Good luck

I am really lucky to be in a cutting-edge DBT program. I can only imagine how bad it must feel to have an invalidating (or simply not validating) therapist. Good advice here to look for another program.

I want to touch on the issue you have about how the therapist isn't asking too much about the past and digging into those issues. I wondered the same thing and asked my therapist early on why not. She shared that eventually, after I stabilized and graduated, we would move on to trauma therapy, but the DBT program is focused first on ending self-harm behaviors and suicidal tendencies. Next, it focuses on therapy-interfering behaviors. Then, on ending emotion-driven behavior. Once all of that is done, you graduate and are knowledgable enough with DBT skills that you can manage dealing with talking about the trauma without going back to old self-harm behavior and thoughts of suicide. The lack of emotion-driven behavior is key. Hope this helps!

eudaimonobot wrote:I don't even know why I posted. I think I know the answers already. Perhaps I am just being dramatic, sometimes I really cannot tell when I am blowing things out of proportions just because I want attention.

I think it's good that you posted and don't think it's being dramatic- you sound like you needed to get it out somewhere. I find doing that often helps enormously and allows me to get my head around things a bit better, sometimes even if I do eventually see that I might have been making a mountain out of a molehill, but it didn't feel that way at the time though.

I've not done much DBT myself (no access to it where I live without travelling), but I think him laughing at you and dismissing your ideas is very wrong, even if his approach is focussing just on skills.

Understandable that some of the other therapists available are scary or intimidating. And that you don't want to start over with someone new. I've done it (too) many times, and starting again can be really hard, but if what you're doing now is not really helping you, perhaps it is time to move on to seeing someone else.

Is there someone else close by who you could go to see rather than quitting? It sounds like you've already invested a lot of time and energy on working towards healing, which I think is really positive and it sounds like you're already on your way with applying what you've learned into place. Don't give up.