Probabilty of remission and DBT's effects on the brain

Was given this article in DBT group yesterday:

*mod edit*

My therapist had told me earlier in response to my current obsession with figuring out my possible physiological brain issues and ways I might be able to solve them with meds that therapy actually changes your brain. I kind of thought it was BS at the time, but I did remember that therapy is much more effective than anti-depressants in the long-term. Who knew DBT could actually change the physiology and functioning of your brain?

I know there are a lot of people on the boards who have had bad experiences with DBT, but I have high hopes for it. I feel like I've already gained so much. I just need to remember skills so that I can actually use them in my life without having to call my therapist.

Also, I called BS on something I read online that said that 80% of PwBPD no longer qualify under the DSM after 10 years. But I did find a study that showed evidence of this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16648323

I find it comforting to know that there's a high likelihood that I won't feel this way forever.

That's what I've been trying to tell you for the longest time, AD. Brain physiology is just the physical symptom of your disorder. Just as a headache can be reduced to biochemical reactions so too are most other things. And yes, I know for a fact things like CBT (and I'm assuming it's off-shoot DBT), neuro-feedback, and even nutrition can help rewire your brain by strengthening dormant connections which result in neurotransmitter imbalance. It's a slow and gradual process, but the right medications can help accelerate things. Why I've always been a fan of fake it until you make it, because after a while, your fake state comes more naturally to you.

In the same way you can train a physical technique, Psychotherapies aim to train a neural pathway that overrides the faulty one.

Hi AmorousDestruction,

I'd be interested in reading the first article but the link takes me to a *mod edit* log in page.
Could you please post the citation?

Thanks,
Flobby

This is extremely interesting, thanks for your post OP.

Ugh. Well that's awkward. I put up far too much identifying information on here as it is. Gunna bite me in the a$$ at some point.

This is the article information I believe.

Dialectical behavior therapy alters emotion regulation and amygdala activity in patients with borderline personality disorder.

AuthorsGoodman M, et al. Show all Journal
J Psychiatr Res. 2014 Oct;57:108-16. doi: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2014.06.020. Epub 2014 Jul 2.

You can google search it and read the abstract if you don't have university journal access.

AmorousDestruction wrote:Was given this article in DBT group yesterday:

*mod edit*

My therapist had told me earlier in response to my current obsession with figuring out my possible physiological brain issues and ways I might be able to solve them with meds that therapy actually changes your brain. I kind of thought it was BS at the time, but I did remember that therapy is much more effective than anti-depressants in the long-term. Who knew DBT could actually change the physiology and functioning of your brain?

I know there are a lot of people on the boards who have had bad experiences with DBT, but I have high hopes for it. I feel like I've already gained so much. I just need to remember skills so that I can actually use them in my life without having to call my therapist.

Also, I called BS on something I read online that said that 80% of PwBPD no longer qualify under the DSM after 10 years. But I did find a study that showed evidence of this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16648323

I find it comforting to know that there's a high likelihood that I won't feel this way forever.

I think therapy - as well as any other habit you acquire, or environment you're in - can influence you positively regarding symptoms of many mental illnesses. As well as recovery. I think choosing the right life style is crucial to feeling better.

However, it's a flip of the coin, just like meds. It might work, it might not. It might make you worse, it might make you feel better. It might have side effects.

Therapy is random and not a tried and true method. I don't particularly advocate it because the statistics made by psychologists themselves repeatedly show people get better with or without therapy, in most cases. It's not like therapy can teach you and make you experience *PRECISELY* what you need to feel better and behave better. However, anything is worth a shot, in my opinion, following a particular therapeutic method, or monitored by a psychotherapist, or not.

A lot of people go to therapy and find it recycles stressors and it makes them visibly worse.
Other people show increase in brain growth and remission from depression with the same kind of therapy.

Whatever works, works! Mental health is a bit medieval. Vastly more unknown then other types of medicine, still. Dunk your brain and soul in whatever seems better/safer/useful and see how it goes. The correct life style and habits can indeed make someone a lot better in many regards.

This is why I told caffeine, alcohol and sleeping late goodbye, 3 years ago.

twistednerve wrote:I think therapy - as well as any other habit you acquire, or environment you're in - can influence you positively regarding symptoms of many mental illnesses. As well as recovery. I think choosing the right life style is crucial to feeling better.

However, it's a flip of the coin, just like meds. It might work, it might not. It might make you worse, it might make you feel better. It might have side effects.

Therapy is random and not a tried and true method. I don't particularly advocate it because the statistics made by psychologists themselves repeatedly show people get better with or without therapy, in most cases. It's not like therapy can teach you and make you experience *PRECISELY* what you need to feel better and behave better. However, anything is worth a shot, in my opinion, following a particular therapeutic method, or monitored by a psychotherapist, or not.

A lot of people go to therapy and find it recycles stressors and it makes them visibly worse.
Other people show increase in brain growth and remission from depression with the same kind of therapy.

Whatever works, works! Mental health is a bit medieval. Vastly more unknown then other types of medicine, still. Dunk your brain and soul in whatever seems better/safer/useful and see how it goes. The correct life style and habits can indeed make someone a lot better in many regards.

This is why I told caffeine, alcohol and sleeping late goodbye, 3 years ago.

DBT and CBT aren't exactly the same as conventional therapy. It's more accurate to refer to them as conditioning. You learn to reason through your distress and learn to implant logic in emotional situations training yourself to think beyond your impulses.

Will such training quell anxiety and restore homeostasis? Likely to a small degree only. But you'll learn to recognize the triggers and to minimize the damage before letting it develop and affect you and others. This combined with the right medication gives you the best chance of recovery and restoring the neural physiology to that of a "normal" brain.

conditional_love wrote:DBT and CBT aren't exactly the same as conventional therapy. It's more accurate to refer to them as conditioning. You learn to reason through your distress and learn to implant logic in emotional situations training yourself to think beyond your impulses.

It really isn't as simple as "implanting logic". I find the emotion-logic dichotomy fallacious and insulting. Emotional reactions are never based on logic, even the ones normal people have. A reaction can be out-of-proportion in comparison to what is considered normal, but that's something totally separate from the supposed emotion-logic dichotomy. How someone should react to a situation is a normative judgement that doesn't come from logic.

*meh*

Maybe it's more simple than logic?
i.e. quit #######4 yourself and others...and deal with the fall out.

Should read over at bpdfamily, quite the riot of an eye full.