BP and religious or spiritual experience

While I was suffering from my first debilitating symptoms of bipolar disorder, before I had sought professional help, I tended to interpret symptoms in a quasi-spiritual way. For example, the delusions of reference I had I would often interpret as enlightened (in whatever way you'd like to use the word) individuals marking me out among themselves as a benighted person, an unworthy soul. I wonder who else on these forums has done this or similar things.

I was on a desperate quest to understand the world, and was majoring in one of the sciences. I tended to see myself as being unworthy and guilty, as someone who was failing fast at figuring out life. There was some simple thing I was missing, some foundational understanding of the interpersonal world that I lacked. The people around me could tell, I hypothesized, that I was among the non-elect, the spiritually bankrupt, the unregenerate, and this idea caused me great anxiety. It was disturbing in the extreme. It was quite different from my rather happy-go-lucky teenage years when I was enjoying life.

At age 20, I had what would I call my first important spiritual experience. I don't use the word "spiritual" lightly. I use it because it seems to have been the sort of thing people mean when they talk about getting in touch with the numinous. I'm sorry if I seem to be dropping in words without proving I understand them, but "numinous" is one of the words I've come across that seems to communicate what I experienced. "Mystical," "spiritual," "transcendant" are pretty much the only three words I know that describe it. I felt as if I had attained, at least for a few seconds during a hallucinatory sort of dream state, something closely related to the enlightenment so many people strive after. It came out of nowhere and left me wide-eyed and wondering. Speaking of wondering, I have often wondered what relation, if any, it may have to the manic depression that later became undeniable.

I am interested in starting a discussion of spiritual or religious experience, or any other subjective experience that might be referred to in those terms, in the context of mental illness. My last diagnosis has been bipolar disorder, and (knock on plywood) my illness has been under control, more or less, for a full year. It has been a long, long ten years.

Many bipolars have "spiritual" experiences during mania. The experience I had, I am still 80% in denial that it was because of bipolar; my mind insists it was real. Unfortunately, I believe the truth is our minds make it up based on our knowledge of the spirit world and the world in general. My experience was quite different from yours. I believed that Satan had tricked me into becoming the Ani-Christ and I was doomed to serve him to bring the world to an end then suffer an eternity in hell with him. My mind made this so real to me that my pulse went up to 167. They ended up giving me Xanax to calm me down, and I slowly improved over a 3 day period. I think this experience was due to my fascination with end times prophecy in the Bible, which I spend a lot of time reading about and studying, so my manic psychosis took on this form. Many bipolars experience a feeling of power and grandeur during mania and it often takes on religious forms. Some seem like good experiences, some bad, but they are all just in our mind. On the other hand, I believe the experience changes us and we can learn something from them to become better people.

Not you my son, Moses??

(I Am Who I Am )

Wooster1 wrote:While I was suffering from my first debilitating symptoms of bipolar disorder, before I had sought professional help, I tended to interpret symptoms in a quasi-spiritual way. For example, the delusions of reference I had I would often interpret as enlightened (in whatever way you'd like to use the word) individuals marking me out among themselves as a benighted person, an unworthy soul. I wonder who else on these forums has done this or similar things.

I was on a desperate quest to understand the world, and was majoring in one of the sciences. I tended to see myself as being unworthy and guilty, as someone who was failing fast at figuring out life. There was some simple thing I was missing, some foundational understanding of the interpersonal world that I lacked. The people around me could tell, I hypothesized, that I was among the non-elect, the spiritually bankrupt, the unregenerate, and this idea caused me great anxiety. It was disturbing in the extreme. It was quite different from my rather happy-go-lucky teenage years when I was enjoying life.

At age 20, I had what would I call my first important spiritual experience. I don't use the word "spiritual" lightly. I use it because it seems to have been the sort of thing people mean when they talk about getting in touch with the numinous. I'm sorry if I seem to be dropping in words without proving I understand them, but "numinous" is one of the words I've come across that seems to communicate what I experienced. "Mystical," "spiritual," "transcendant" are pretty much the only three words I know that describe it. I felt as if I had attained, at least for a few seconds during a hallucinatory sort of dream state, something closely related to the enlightenment so many people strive after. It came out of nowhere and left me wide-eyed and wondering. Speaking of wondering, I have often wondered what relation, if any, it may have to the manic depression that later became undeniable.

I am interested in starting a discussion of spiritual or religious experience, or any other subjective experience that might be referred to in those terms, in the context of mental illness. My last diagnosis has been bipolar disorder, and (knock on plywood) my illness has been under control, more or less, for a full year. It has been a long, long ten years.

Hi Wooster,

I've had several spiritual experiences, though I have not had them in the context of mental illness. However, I have read about people who have had spiritual experiences which doctors and mainstream medicine would put down as mental illness. The problem is that if society/medicine has already decided that this is only a physical world, then all they can do is interpret any experience as being a mental/physical experience. I disagree. It is hard for me to tell whether another person's experiences are spiritual or to do with their mental state however, so I don't know if yours were spiritual or not. All I can say, is that if you have an experience and it means more to you than any physical experiences you have had, and it was more enjoyable, more meaningful, it probably was a spiritual experience.

Having had spiritual experiences, I also agree that it's very easy to then interpret other things which are happening as spiritual, even when they are not. Like if you see stars, you might think it's something spiritual, when it's a migraine, or your eyesight is bad. So it's always best to check the physical too.

There's one thing you wrote that I didn't quite understand:

"For example, the delusions of reference I had I would often interpret as enlightened (in whatever way you'd like to use the word) individuals marking me out among themselves as a benighted person, an unworthy soul."

Would you mind elaborating?

Thanks.

It's good to know that your illness is now under control and that you're doing better.

breakin

breakinfree wrote:

Would you mind elaborating?

Thanks.

It's good to know that your illness is now under control and that you're doing better.

breakin

Hi Breakin

- I'm extremely sorry to disappoint but I'm about as spiritual as a brick. (Although in my 20s I used to pose as a migraineuse.) You can imagine how boring & sad my life as an aspiritual is, the only slight relief I get is via self-medication with redwine. Or white. (Or whisky, sometimes.)
I think your queries into the realm of the spiritual mind would be better addressed to the Original Poster of this thread, aka 'Wooster1" (note the capitalization & extra digit). I'm curious as hell too to find out more about the matters of spirit, m'self - so I may lurk around for a lil' while. "Observe & move on"
Good luck!

~ Paddy-O'

(okay, to elaborate a bit: we got a pervasive soap-opera unfolding on the AsPD board which seems to spill out all over the place - today I woke up to having my first ever clone, the original poster of this interesting thread.)

wooster wrote:

breakinfree wrote:

Would you mind elaborating?

Thanks.

It's good to know that your illness is now under control and that you're doing better.

breakin

Hi Breakin

- I'm extremely sorry to disappoint but I'm about as spiritual as a brick. (Although in my 20s I used to pose as a migraineuse.) You can imagine how boring & sad my life as an aspiritual is, the only slight relief I get is via self-medication with redwine. Or white. (Or whisky, sometimes.)
I think your queries into the realm of the spiritual mind would be better addressed to the Original Poster of this thread, aka 'Wooster1" (note the capitalization & extra digit). I'm curious as hell too to find out more about the matters of spirit, m'self - so I may lurk around for a lil' while. "Observe & move on"
Good luck!

~ Paddy-O'

Hi Paddy-O'

Hehe, I did notice that '1' though not the capital and kind of thought that there wouldn't be two reading the same forum. Did you get notified as I used your user Id?

Anyway, to Wooster1 in that case?

breakin

No problem, breakin.
(see my edit above )

Take care,

~ the Earl

I am a Christian anyway, but I find that I experience things more spirituallly when I am unwell, either high or low. I believe that my faith can save me more than meds and that I need prayer. When I am well I still like to have my name on a prayer list and go to church but am nothing like as intensely spiritual.

wooster wrote:Not you my son, Moses??

(I Am Who I Am )

HaHa, very funny. Now I know why my wife does not always appreciate my bipolar humor Maybe I will start a site for bipolar people to post their jokes, what a hoot You do get credit for trying though, and I see you have about a million posts, so whoever you are, kudos to you.

Hello.

I never had generally positive experiences in a manic phase or episode. I do a meditation practice a lot, though, and this is spriritual for me, I guess. I don't place any religious value on the practice but it is close to what I would term , 'spiritual' --feeling connected to something, awed, etc. In the case of meditation its more of a connection to existence itself or being in the moment rather than to a religious figure or mysticism. I think everyone has the ability to experience these 'spritual' feelings and it likely has to do with the way our emotions intersect our experiences.

I used to have an interest in Buddhism, as well. I discarded the superstititous elements but, for me, there is a good measure of wisdom and practical value in the system. Out of all the religious syetms, it is probably the only one for which the primary concern is what is happening in the present moment with the individual, rather than what will happen to the individual in the future. I think thats probably why a lot of MH therapies now have incorporated a bit of the meditation practices and mindfulness training into the therapy.

Tomorrow hasn't happened. The past is history. Yet we spend most of our time stuck in the past or fretting over what will be, might be, or could be, in the future. That is the problem right there for most of us and is what creates our anxiety. All that will ever exist is in the present. Thats the only place you can ever be. Wherever you go, there you are. It is hard to obtain that state of tranquility with being in the moment and just letting things be and letting go of the idea of self. It s refered to as enlightenment. Some people who have practiced intently for many years can do this at will.

Easier said than done. WHen you are having a bad day, it can be very very hard to sit down and let your thogughts go and just be in the moment. It has helped me, though.

Anyways, sorry for the long reply. I don't ever talk about this much or get to share my thoughts on these issues.