Anyone: Bipolar + Borderline?

I understand that this is a mood disorder forum, probably strictly for bipolar and, well, mood disorders, but I have a question mostly about bipolar and a little about borderline personality disorder - so I chose this forum to ask my questions if that's okay. I have both disorders, and it's complicated to me. I guess if it's not okay I'll be moved - to where, who knows.

I'm kind of confused, I guess, and am looking for others who might understand my confusion. I was just diagnosed as bipolar, but it wasn't specified what kind of bipolar. I'm pretty sure I have the depressed all of the time version, #2. Or maybe one that cycles kinda quick? I don't know, it wasn't specified and I don't go see my psych doc for a week+ so I can clarify what was meant by bipolar.

Anyways. Sometimes I get really sad and down, and I can feel it coming on before it happens, like a sixth sense or something, and it's been that way for awhile, before I was diagnosed. Like, the other day I noticed that my mood was changing without any real reason. I always thought that it was just a borderline trait, like something happened and triggered me, but now I think sometimes it just happens without a trigger. Sometimes it happens with a trigger too, like I will fall into a deep depression because something bad happened- or it can go the other way, I can escalate into extreme happiness from a trigger of something really good happening.

I just feel like my bipolar can trigger my borderline traits in me - like it exacerbates things in my thinking - and/or my borderline maybe triggers my bipolar? Do you see where I'm getting confused? I think they feed off of each other, and it's hard for me to know what to treat - what to work on - or even know what the hell is going on most of the time. I'm just on this crazy ride and I want to know what to look for as far as if the medicine is working or not, or if it's just my borderline, which can't be medicated, it needs to be worked on. Or maybe bipolar can be worked on together with my borderline issues? I don't know. I don't know anyone who has both so I can ask, thus, why I am here.

I started knowing I was going to start being sad a few days ago and accepted that I was going to be a complete disaster to be around, but during this time I also had something bad happen to trigger me more so into a downward spiral where I just blew up on people and cried so badly and wishing I would magically just die. Then the next few days I was just frustrated with everyone and everything - nothing made me happy, but everything made me upset. I wanted to be around people but I also didn't. I wanted to do something but I also didn't. I felt all kinds of feelings which made me very frustrated. I think I've been in a mixed state. Or, maybe it's just my borderline? So confusing. On top of all of that I have really bad anxiety issues too. What a mix, right? Yay. Anyways.

Anyone? Anyone have experience with both? And does anyone with bipolar see any resemblance to what they go through? Any thoughts on what type of bipolar I might have through similar experiences? Any thoughts come to mind from what I typed up there? I feel really alone in these thoughts and issues.

P.S. My meds are listed in my signature, and I was really happy for the first two week while on Wellbutrin, but I think it stopped working because I just suddenly got really sad and frustrated again. Maybe it needs to be upped (or maybe it's my borderline). Also, the Lamictal is new, been on 25mg for almost two weeks and will move up to 50mg soon, so it's too soon to tell if that's helping or not.

Thanks.

Talk to your doctor.

Bipolar is a bio-chemical disorder, while Borderline Personality Disorder is entirely psychological.

I'm not quite sure if you actually read my post. I stated that I know the difference between a mood disorder and a personality disorder in the first paragraph. And in the second paragraph I stated that I don't get to see my psych doc for a week plus.

I'm looking for fellow people who deal with both of these disorders (or people who can relate to what I'm experiencing) and have some experienced input for me. I was just newly diagnosed bipolar and I'm just looking for people who might be able to relate or let me know if they experience the same things to tide me over until I see my pysch doc. I am curious how the two look in action in real life, if people feel the same way as I do, and if people can tell when it's their bipolar flaring up or their borderline - not some technical stuff that I can read on the internet (and have). Real experience.

I feel really offended right now and as though I was just shrugged off, and I came here for support. It's not like there is a dual-diagnoses spot to post this - it's mostly a bipolar question - thus I posted here in hopes for support and help.

:(

Gerk,

I wish I could offer some insight, but I can't as I've only been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I just wanted you to know I read your post and completely understand how frustrating this must be for you. There are people on the forum who have both and hopefully they will be able to help you find some answers very soon.

Alice

Thanks, Alice (bamaalice), I really appreciate your kind and thoughtful response

I really hope so, too.

Well, that just about describes me.. For the record, I don't have official borderline diagnosis, and looking at the list of required symptoms by ICD-10 I don't fill the requirements. *Shrug.* Suppose my psychiatrist is going to get to that after they convince me I'm significantly depressed. And assess my ADD test results. Seems BPD is quite low on the list of things to check atm.

Regardless.. I know my BP side, I can feel the cycle, or realize if it makes sudden changes after few days. Like now I'm apparently cycling at about couple of days intervals. Nothing drastic, but I can feel it in the general sleep-requirement as well as mood. But then there's outside triggers kicking me one way or other, which isn't what BP does.. Depressed and something good happens = I'll be happy for a while (considering my rapid cycling it may last over the whole depressive state - or it may not) as well as hypo and something bad happens = instant "bottom of the well" and decision never going outside again. If it was just BP, I my mental state wouldn't care less about outside triggers.

So I can relate. Offering any practical helpful suggestions - not really. So far I've noticed my "pessimism" seems to mitigate the downs (expect things are going to $#%^, and when they do, BPD-traits don't kick in as badly - or whatever.) But since pessimism is bad bad thing that has to be fixed, I've got no idea what would work better than that.

But, you can have these: *Stuffed squirrely headpat&chocolate-chip cookie.*

Hi gerk,

I have bipolar II with borderline traits.

Ignore the number -- it could be bipolar NOS or bipolar Wendy doesn't matter really. It's a label for insurance companies. Personally I experience lots of depression, little (hypo)mania, looooots of rapid cycling. The number doesn't really describe that too well.

My moods change with and without trigger. Sometimes I wake up depressed and I don't know why. Sometimes someone says something and 15 minutes later I'm dying inside because of that thing. My triggers also work paradoxically -- I got manic when my boyfriend was in a hospital with skin cancer.

Frankly enough I don't know how my bipolar and borderline interact. I have only had borderline added to my diagnosis a month ago and haven't seen a trace of therapist since then. Anxiety, though. Ouch. Yes. :/

Big hugs -- you are not alone. Wish I could help more.

When I was at an outpatient clinic before my first hospitalization, and I said I thought I was bipolar, the social worker I talked to told me he agreed, but kept throwing around words like "invalidation" and "reactive". I checked my notes and it turns out I'd been diagnosed with BP1 and a "personality disorder with histrionic traits". Histrionic is NOTHING like me. It seemed like they wanted to diagnose me with borderline but didn't, probably because it's such a stigmatized diagnosis.

Then, just two months ago during my second hospitalization after a suicide attempt, my doctor tells me almost exactly this: "We don't know if you're bipolar or not, but the way you are is not a disorder, it's your personality". Once again, I checked my notes. "Mood Disorder, NOS". REALLY??? Oh and of course, they decided my "personality" needed three daily doses of Seroquel that were each enough to knock me out (yes, even if they believe it isn't biological, the doctors will STILL give you medication. Yay for the pharmaceutical industry!)

At that point I just said screw it, I'm never going to get a straight answer. But if you are bipolar - as in, you have experienced the intense "up" that is mania (which is not part of BPD), adding "borderline personality" to it won't really do anything. Granted, I've experienced mania - am somewhat in the middle of it right now, actually - though I still have "abandonment issues" and can't stand to be invalidated. But how could I not? Growing up in a family deeply rooted in mental illness, addiction, and all-around general dysfunction, the only way I couldn't be screwed up "at the very base" is if I had been adopted by another family. Then, I'd be a 30 year old normie who randomly got hit one day by the bipolar coaster, running me over and dragging me up and down forever, until I finally got to my resting spot (way up high or way down low - we'll see where I end up...)

I would probably go on about "the good old days" before the illness if that were the case, which I think would make me all-around sadder. But it's not. So instead, I'm able to look forward to the future where I'm away from all the misery I was born into. Instead, I'll be surrounded by new people and living somewhere better... maybe not ideal, but at least better.

Ive got BP with BPD traits. Throw in so OCD's too. but yes alot of people have many overlying traits from other things here.

SpacingOut wrote:adding "borderline personality" to it won't really do anything

i disagree. Note: the following presents my POV and opinion.

... Bipolar and Borderline, in their EXTREME form are different sides of the same medal (if you only take the emotions part) Borderline means you have extreme (emotional) reactions to everything you perceive or might perceive (=> environment). Bipolar means your mood is extreme while being independent from the environment.
Borderline is more "external" and Bipolar is more "internal".

Bipolar means your emotions and thoughts relate to your extreme mood (mood alters perception of environment...alters mood...alters perception), while borderline means your extreme emotions and thoughts relate to the environment. (environment alters emotion... alters perception... alters emotion; can either "break the chain" by focusing on something else as a band-aid or start at the beginning, by changing the perception of the environment)
The problematic part is that you cannot always control moods (everyone has good or bad days!) or the environment.
... all of this leads to bipolar people primarily trying to control their moods when down (e.g. self-medication) while bpd people primarily try to control the environment instead (controlling behaviour, getting angry, etc, i hope i am not misinterpreting something here, could someone with bpd please clarify)... or subconsciously altering the perception of the environment so that it becomes less intimidating (black-white-thinking)

But in reality there is a spectrum. I think of Bipolar being 75% internal, 25% external... Borderline the other way around.

Emotions are very fast and reactive. Moods are slow and less reactive. Bipolar is more moods, borderline more emotions. Both can have times in which they are "normal", however it seems that borderline gets less severe - older people just aren't as impulsive or emotional anymore - unless they become really old and get dementia of course. Then they can act ultra-rapid-rapid cycling and very impulsive because they get more emotional (side note as i work in a hospital at a station of internal medicine with many old people)

Uff that was a lot to write in the evening. I hope it helps somehow.