Sensory over-stimulation? WHAT IS THIS?

I swear, I have been more educated in 2 weeks on this forum than 8 months in therapy...
I didn't even know there was also an over the counter lithium (much less the differences between them). I'm so glad for everybody's input!
I totally believe in magnesium, too ~ when I can tell I'm losing it I go straight for a bath in epsom salts for crisis prevention.

KialK23 wrote:. What side effects did you experience that made you give up meds completely?

Aside from feeling heavily sedated and all emotion flatlined, I started having RLS (restless leg syndrome) for the 1st time ever, and even as my pdoc was backing down the doses, I hit a point where my body started shutting down... I mean, what started as constipation turned into totally impacted bowels, I lost all ability to urinate or control urination, and had zero sexual response at all, (sorry - TMI!) and my legs shaking all over the place. I felt like my body was literally dying inside. I was not stabilized from my breakdown and hospitalization, so being in crisis mode made the stress of my body not functioning absolutely unbearable, I felt like my body was being poisoned and suffocated from the inside out. It was awful. I know everybody says you have to give the meds time, but I couldn't get through THAT, and I felt like anything capable of doing that to my body can't possibly be good for me, even in smaller doses.
Most people seem to say they are still bipolar and still have mild symptoms even when on meds, so I figured it was worth it to try a year or two without them... we will see.

crackerjack wrote:Most people seem to say they are still bipolar and still have mild symptoms even when on meds, so I figured it was worth it to try a year or two without them... we will see.

Hi CJ,

Your reaction to medication sounded absolutely appalling - I can see why you're so against taking it.

A friend of mine took Lithium and had a truly horrible reaction to it. She then tried Sodium Valproate and it seemed to have a really positive effect on her. It seems that in order to improve our mental health we have to be our own guinea pigs.

I don't want to sound disheartening, but I would say the chances of you being able to be mentally stable without medication might be small. You described living an extremely healthy, active lifestyle free from drugs / alcohol, and then experiencing severe mania. So you were doing everything right but were still becoming unstable. I would suggest that it might be worth consulting with a doctor and trying another mood stabiliser - it may be that you can find one where the side effects are manageable. Just because you had an incredibly adverse reaction to one, doesn't mean that you will to all of them necessarily.

I would be wary of smoking weed to alleviate your symptoms. Its obviously different for everyone, but for me smoking weed has induced mania, paranoia, dissociation and lots of other crazy sh$$t. It may be giving you short-term relief, but remember that long-term it is affecting your brain chemistry and it could actually end up aggravating your symptoms. I don't mean to freak you out here at all - I've thought about these things an awful lot myself and am just sharing my thoughts... It sounds like you're going through a really tough time with your mood at the moment. I hope you feel better soon.

crackerjack wrote:I swear, I have been more educated in 2 weeks on this forum than 8 months in therapy...
I didn't even know there was also an over the counter lithium (much less the differences between them). I'm so glad for everybody's input!

3 years ago when anxiety/C-PTSD hit me hard, I had been to therapy for like 8 months too and learned nothing. Then my psychiatrist was good, but he didn't teach me much.
The internet has been a life saver! I learned very much about literally every medication that is out there. Now I'm experimenting/studying natural supplements and they're working great too.
Forums were the best. This seems to be primarily a psychology/support forums, I'm new here. I used to be a member of medication/drugs/natural supplements/biochemistry forums more.

I totally believe in magnesium, too ~ when I can tell I'm losing it I go straight for a bath in epsom salts for crisis prevention.

*mod edit*
Magnesium can be safely taken up to a dosage of 800mg daily if you're a girl. Toxicity is almost impossible, too, as excess will come out in awful diahreea

Aside from feeling heavily sedated and all emotion flatlined, I started having RLS (restless leg syndrome) for the 1st time ever, and even as my pdoc was backing down the doses, I hit a point where my body started shutting down... I mean, what started as constipation turned into totally impacted bowels, I lost all ability to urinate or control urination, and had zero sexual response at all, (sorry - TMI!) and my legs shaking all over the place. I felt like my body was literally dying inside.

Sounds like you took antipsychotics Antipsychotics are the big guns for bipolar. *mod edit*
The side effects are just AWFUL. Antipsychotics are evil, but sometimes necessary evil as there are no alternatives.

Restless legs, constipation, no sex drive, apathy, overall very bad awful malaise.
All common to antipsychotics.

"Quit * Lamictal, Seroquel, Trileptal, Klonopin *"

Seroquel is the antipsychotic here.

Lamictal and Trileptal are both similar mood stabilizers, odd you would be on both. Though Trileptal is better for mania and Lamictal better for depression. However, they can be synergistic in side effects.

Klonopin, Xanax's ugly cousin. Not a fan.

Yeah, your cocktail kinda sucked. lamictal and Trileptal are good, though. *mod edit*

Rule of thumb for meds:

1. If it's AWFUL and you shouldn't take it, you'll know it in 2 weeks tops.
That thing doctors say about side effects going away is partially true. Some never do, some get worse, new side effects show up, others should never be there in the first place. You can insist a little longer and see how it goes, or take other medications or supplements to fight side effects (beware the domino effect here).

2. They'll never be a certain dosage. It takes constant fine tuning and an arsenal of different meds, so you can balance yourself and "yourself on meds". Managing different dosages daily, taking some on and off, etc.. Takes a while to get to know the "tools for the job". Again, listen to your body on this, not *just* the doctors. They advise and they guess, based on estimates and previous experience.

*mod edit*

darkroses wrote:Your reaction to medication sounded absolutely appalling - I can see why you're so against taking it.

I don't want to sound disheartening, but I would say the chances of you being able to be mentally stable without medication might be small. You described living an extremely healthy, active lifestyle free from drugs / alcohol, and then experiencing severe mania. So you were doing everything right but were still becoming unstable. I would suggest that it might be worth consulting with a doctor and trying another mood stabiliser - it may be that you can find one where the side effects are manageable. Just because you had an incredibly adverse reaction to one, doesn't mean that you will to all of them necessarily.

I would be wary of smoking weed to alleviate your symptoms. Its obviously different for everyone, but for me smoking weed has induced mania, paranoia, dissociation and lots of other crazy sh$$t. It may be giving you short-term relief, but remember that long-term it is affecting your brain chemistry and it could actually end up aggravating your symptoms. I don't mean to freak you out here at all - I've thought about these things an awful lot myself and am just sharing my thoughts... It sounds like you're going through a really tough time with your mood at the moment. I hope you feel better soon.

I KNOW, RIGHT???
There is an evident consensus of opinion that meds are a MUST for bipolar. I don't think I have EVER heard anyone say they've been living happily med-free for years.
I feel that same sense of concern about smoking weed... for me it totally puts a cap (albeit temporary) on hypo/mania, and brings the depression up from blackness to a shade of gray. But I definitely worry about long term affects! I will tell you this, I feel like smoking has allowed me more "rest" from my jangled nerves than 2 weeks in a Behavioral Health Facility gave me. Something about my mood seems to be "lifting" and I'm smoking less lately, but I don't know if this is temporary or a longer trend. I never know!

twistednerve wrote:Sounds like you took antipsychotics Antipsychotics are the big guns for bipolar. *mod edit*
The side effects are just AWFUL. Antipsychotics are evil, but sometimes necessary evil as there are no alternatives.
Restless legs, constipation, no sex drive, apathy, overall very bad awful malaise.
All common to antipsychotics.
"Quit * Lamictal, Seroquel, Trileptal, Klonopin *"
Seroquel is the antipsychotic here.
Lamictal and Trileptal are both similar mood stabilizers, odd you would be on both. Though Trileptal is better for mania and Lamictal better for depression. However, they can be synergistic in side effects.
Klonopin, Xanax's ugly cousin. Not a fan.
Yeah, your cocktail kinda sucked.

[/quote]

I KNOW, RIGHT???
Ok, so this was REALLY GOOD clarifying info to me! I feel like nobody really even "tried" to come up with a good cocktail for me, this jerk p-doc at the "rapid stabilization facility" just randomly started prescribing masses doses of all this stuff, and if you refuse any meds you go on the shit-list and they don't let you go home until you comply. I felt SO BULLIED during my hospitalization.
That is so clarifying about my symptoms being tied to the anti-psychotic more than the others, you seem really knowledgeable about all these meds! My p-doc is actually a P.A. and his approach was just to star me on lamictal (really low dose), nothing else, but day 5 of taking lamictal was the day I was hospitalized, so... coincidence or connection? I have no idea! But then the hospital pdoc started me on all that other crap...
BTW I think it was the Seroquel that gave me the violent withdrawals, too... lots of info online about that (it was pretty bad).
Anyway, like I said, something has been gradually lifting over the past 2 weeks (it was hard to recognize at first but now I see it) but I have no idea if I'm starting to be more base-line or more hypo, I can't tell! I'm curious to see where it goes from here...
Oh, great Rule of Thumb tips for meds ~ I'm copy/pasting in my files for future reference!

crackerjack wrote:
I KNOW, RIGHT???
There is an evident consensus of opinion that meds are a MUST for bipolar. I don't think I have EVER heard anyone say they've been living happily med-free for years.
I feel that same sense of concern about smoking weed... for me it totally puts a cap (albeit temporary) on hypo/mania, and brings the depression up from blackness to a shade of gray. But I definitely worry about long term affects! I will tell you this, I feel like smoking has allowed me more "rest" from my jangled nerves than 2 weeks in a Behavioral Health Facility gave me. Something about my mood seems to be "lifting" and I'm smoking less lately, but I don't know if this is temporary or a longer trend. I never know!

Mariuana is definetely an underestimated drug. It can serve briefly as an antidepressant or anxiolytic, but on the long term is very likely to cause anxiety disorders, bring on mania on predisposed people and a little too often it causes psychosis permanently.

I KNOW, RIGHT???
Ok, so this was REALLY GOOD clarifying info to me! I feel like nobody really even "tried" to come up with a good cocktail for me, this jerk p-doc at the "rapid stabilization facility" just randomly started prescribing masses doses of all this stuff, and if you refuse any meds you go on the shit-list and they don't let you go home until you comply. I felt SO BULLIED during my hospitalization.

Forced hospitalization is bullying. Sometimes literally. I used to be bullied by the male general staff and nurses, for no reason. Abuse of power, disrespect for the patient's well being and outright sadism is very common. And a lot of the times, the prescriptions will be terrible.
Psychiatrists that work at emergencies, psychiatric hospitals, etc., usually prescribe massive doses of antipsychotics. They don't really care for the patient, they just want the patient to be quiet.

Coming up with good drugs to take is something I took for myself to do, and luckily my psychiatrist just hands me the drugs I ask for - with a warning and indications. lol
Because I knew a psychiatrist would be limited even if he was a great psychiatrists.

There are awesome sites/forums to discuss medication:

*mod edit*

That is so clarifying about my symptoms being tied to the anti-psychotic more than the others, you seem really knowledgeable about all these meds! My p-doc is actually a P.A. and his approach was just to star me on lamictal (really low dose), nothing else, but day 5 of taking lamictal was the day I was hospitalized, so... coincidence or connection? I have no idea! But then the hospital pdoc started me on all that other crap...

*mod edit*

BTW I think it was the Seroquel that gave me the violent withdrawals, too... lots of info online about that (it was pretty bad)

Probably. Lamictal and Trileptal usually have no withdrawal symptoms. Most antipsychotics do, and I know how bad they are.

Anyway, like I said, something has been gradually lifting over the past 2 weeks (it was hard to recognize at first but now I see it) but I have no idea if I'm starting to be more base-line or more hypo, I can't tell! I'm curious to see where it goes from here...
Oh, great Rule of Thumb tips for meds ~ I'm copy/pasting in my files for future reference!

The cool thing about lithium as it truly gets people where they should be. No unnatural ups or downs, for most.

And, like everyone else, I must emphasize: bipolar is almost impossible to handle without medications and dietary supplements. Most mental problems are.
There are approaches, like life style "hygiene" methods, that you can try, but bleh, I rather take medications and enjoy a normal life with all it's stresses, abuses and lack of discipline.

Hi crackerjack,

There's not much I can add to the excellent and detailed advice about meds that others have already given you, but I just wanted to give you my personal take...

The side effects you experienced in the past sound horrendous, so it's no wonder you're wary of trying the medication route again, and I can totally understand this. However, as other people have said, successful treatment of bipolar is highly likely to have to involve medication long-term. It seems to be a necessary evil for most!

This doesn't mean you'll necessary experience anything like the severe side-effects in the past though, and any good psychiatrist should be working with you closely to find a balance between achieving stability and minimising side-effects.

As twistednerve pointed out, it's likely the most extreme reactions were provoked by the antipsychotic in your combination, as these are notorious for harsh side-effects (and believe me, I've been there!) I find antipsychotics invaluable for quickly calming (hypo)mania or mixed states though, but I find them hard to tolerate for more than a few months at a time.

I think you're right that quitting antipsychotics especially cold turkey can cause all kinds of problems. I recently tapered off Seroquel myself, and my doctor advised doing it so gradually that it took about three months. So I think stopping the meds in this way made you suffer even more.

For me, a healthy, structured life can certainly help with stability, but it's not enough to prevent the powerful tide of an episode, or treat one once it's begun.

I hope that, if you feel that you want to try medication again, you're able to access good quality treatment and a doctor that responds to your concerns. I'm very fortunate to have an excellent psychiatrist right now, but am yet to fully bounce back psychologically from the years of turmoil caused by inadequate treatment- even though the bipolar itself is in remission.

I'm on Carbamazepine, 600mg as maintenance treatment but I understand that Lithium carbonate or Depakote tend to be some of the first choices for mood stabilisers for Bipolar I.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. I think finding medication and dosages that are effective and have tolerable side effects can take time and patience but is ultimately worth it. Take care.

twistednerve wrote:*mod edit*

Really good to be validated on all this, I felt like I really wasn't getting good care, but then they have a way of making me feel like I'm the one who's being "high maintenance" or something!

twistednerve wrote:The cool thing about lithium as it truly gets people where they should be. No unnatural ups or downs, for most.

And, like everyone else, I must emphasize: bipolar is almost impossible to handle without medications and dietary supplements. Most mental problems are.
There are approaches, like life style "hygiene" methods, that you can try, but bleh, I rather take medications and enjoy a normal life with all it's stresses, abuses and lack of discipline.

Yeah, lithium is going on my emergency crisis plan for when I feel like it's not a good idea to be med-free anymore. I'm watching myself for the next few months ~ this time being med-free is going to give me good contrast, once I know what I'm really like without meds then I'll know when they're working if I start taking them. Lol!

To l'ennui, thanks for your validation, too ~ I agree with pretty much everything you wrote!

I think this is the closest to stable I've been in a long time, so we will see how long it last or what comes next. At least it's not not boring, never knowing what to expect next!

l'ennui wrote:The side effects you experienced in the past sound horrendous, so it's no wonder you're wary of trying the medication route again, and I can totally understand this. However, as other people have said, successful treatment of bipolar is highly likely to have to involve medication long-term. It seems to be a necessary evil for most!

I agree with l'ennui, they were horrendous. And unnecessary.
Luckily there are plenty non-invasive supplements and medication, as they are a must. Mania (even hypo) is hard on the brain, as depression and anxiety are toxic to it. I would get some stabilization always. Below therapeutic/side effect free dose lithium at least.

This doesn't mean you'll necessary experience anything like the severe side-effects in the past though, and any good psychiatrist should be working with you closely to find a balance between achieving stability and minimising side-effects.

If you're stable without medication, low dose of less agressive medication should be practically unnoticed and effective at keeping you that way.

As twistednerve pointed out, it's likely the most extreme reactions were provoked by the antipsychotic in your combination, as these are notorious for harsh side-effects (and believe me, I've been there!) I find antipsychotics invaluable for quickly calming (hypo)mania or mixed states though, but I find them hard to tolerate for more than a few months at a time.

Antipsychotics start acting in less than a week, and are the big guns to calm mania down. They can be used as a last resort. For some people, mania goes away in like one dose or so. But taking them too long can be very unpleasant, and the withdrawals are hell usually.

I think you're right that quitting antipsychotics especially cold turkey can cause all kinds of problems. I recently tapered off Seroquel myself, and my doctor advised doing it so gradually that it took about three months. So I think stopping the meds in this way made you suffer even more.

Never good to stop anything cold turkey, really.

For me, a healthy, structured life can certainly help with stability, but it's not enough to prevent the powerful tide of an episode, or treat one once it's begun.

I really think the only mental disorder that can be med free is mild anxiety.

I hope that, if you feel that you want to try medication again, you're able to access good quality treatment and a doctor that responds to your concerns. I'm very fortunate to have an excellent psychiatrist right now, but am yet to fully bounce back psychologically from the years of turmoil caused by inadequate treatment- even though the bipolar itself is in remission.

Everyone suffers in the hands of bad psychiatrists. Well, well, at least we got each other and the information on the web.

I'm on Carbamazepine, 600mg as maintenance treatment but I understand that Lithium carbonate or Depakote tend to be some of the first choices for mood stabilisers for Bipolar I.

Lithium -> Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) -> Tegretol (carbamazepine) -> Depakote (soldium valproate).
In that order, from the least offensive to the more side effect ridden.

*mod edit*

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. I think finding medication and dosages that are effective and have tolerable side effects can take time and patience but is ultimately worth it. Take care.

l'ennui gave great advice and input, I think.

Medication really is trial and error, really. But not only worth it, it's like the only choice (unless you're elligible and want to risk ECT ).

However, I have to say bipolar 1 can be one of the easiest to treat when there aren't too many symptoms that can be considered "commorbid", such as psychosis, high anxiety, depression bordering stress related depression, borderline personality disorder traits, etc..

Usually one single mood stabilizer does the trick.
Then you can take supplements to fine tune side effects or just improve other stuff.

-- Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:29 pm --

crackerjack wrote:Really good to be validated on all this, I felt like I really wasn't getting good care, but then they have a way of making me feel like I'm the one who's being "high maintenance" or something!

Trust your gut feeling. *mod edit*

Yeah, lithium is going on my emergency crisis plan for when I feel like it's not a good idea to be med-free anymore. I'm watching myself for the next few months ~ this time being med-free is going to give me good contrast, once I know what I'm really like without meds then I'll know when they're working if I start taking them. Lol!

Lithium doesn't work very fast, though. It can take up to 2 months to start working properly. *mod edit*

[quote[code]="crackerjack"]
I KNOW, RIGHT???
There is an evident consensus of opinion that meds are a MUST for bipolar. I don't think I have EVER heard anyone say they've been living happily med-free for years.
I feel that same sense of concern about smoking weed... for me it totally puts a cap (albeit temporary) on hypo/mania, and brings the depression up from blackness to a shade of gray. But I definitely worry about long term affects! I will tell you this, I feel like smoking has allowed me more "rest" from my jangled nerves than 2 weeks in a Behavioral Health Facility gave me. Something about my mood seems to be "lifting" and I'm smoking less lately, but I don't know if this is temporary or a longer trend. I never know!
[/quote]

What kind of strain are you smoking? Are you going for Sativa or Indica based strains? For me, there's a huge difference in the effects. Sativa makes me hypomanic, Indica just puts me into a coma. But both seem to make me paranoid long-term. My problem though is that I'll abuse it if I have it - I'll smoke weed from 9AM compulsively every day. If I could limit myself to one joint a night, perhaps the paranoia wouldn't happen.

Its sad, as some of the effects of weed are so damn great...

*puts moderator cap on*
I am afraid discussion has been allowed to go too far in this thread, in particular in two directions:
1. use of drugs which are illegal in most countries
2. disputing professional advice/giving advice on medication and dosages

I am not sure whether this thread is still anywhere near its official topic, however seeing as the original poster continues taking part in it I am not locking it YET.

With this in mind you may proceed to further discussion...
*takes moderator cap off, steps off soapbox*