Could it possibly be?

Hi,

I have been unofficially diagnozed as borderline personality. I seem to fit the criteria, but there also seems to be a certain pattern in my mood which I've began to think in terms of possible bi-polar disorder. Most of the year I'm pretty much in a state of immobile depression, fatigue and emptiness and a sense of lost and ruin with no strength, inteerest or ability to concetrate in much of anything. But recently I had an episode for couple of weeks (2-3, I think) when I felt uplifted and didn't think my life in terms of a 'problem' as I most of the time do - I was able to make some future plans, to read and to write (my preferred activity) and felt relieved and 'ascended', even mildly enthusiatic about it. I didn't want to go to sleep or even eat because it somehow felt like a 'waste of time'. Nothing external launched this in me, it just 'snapped' on inside me (Of course in borderline personality we have 'triggers' - but for me those kinds of triggers that are linked to my 'borderline personality disorder' don't really have an effect on this basic mood of mine - those kinds of 'triggers' have more to do with the compensatonary phenomena of my conscious mental life, not my basic 'mood' or 'ability') However, now I've 'come down' from this uplifted state, in to the usual hopeless depression and lack of interest, and I've started to review if there's been some kind of a 'pattern' in the past years concerning this process of 'depression-elevation-depression' and I think that in contrast to my usual depression, I've indeed had these kinds of uplifting episodes at least once a year (without external triggers for that change in mood) usually as short-lived as it was now (couple of weeks)

I'm by my nature sensitive and somewhat creative 'day-dreaming' type, but I've been plagued by this downward depression for all my adult life with the exceptions of these very short enthusiastic periods that come suddenly and burn out as suddenly as they came. I've tried to read something about Bi-polar disorder but haven't formed a real comprehensive picture of it, so I thought it would be easier to ask about it here. So my questions would be: Does this sound like Bi-polar disorder, and would it be possible for bi-polar disorder to present itself in this way: As deep depression in general, but with 1, at most 2 (two-three week) periods of elevation per year?

Obviously I can't diagnose you here. But yes what you describe could indeed be bipolar in fact it sounds like type two bipolar to me. Please speak with your pdoc about this.

With the usual disclaimer of nobody here can diagnose blah-blah, etc.

What you describe can be typical of bipolar. As far as I know, some people have predominantly depressive episodes with a few episodes of mania/hypomania, while others are the other way around. I'm not completely sure, but I believe BD1 presents with mainly mania and occasionally depression, while BD2 is usually depression and sometimes hypomania. I'm not sure about this though.

The lack of triggers you describe is very common with BD. As you probably know, with borderline it's the opposite. Episodes are triggered by external events.

I agree with Crawling, you definitely should discuss this with your therapist or p-doc.

Oh, one thing I just thought of: for people who are depressed most of the time, it is possible to mistake normal mood for hypomania. It's like people get so used to feeling depressed that when they switch to "normal" they think it's too much happiness or whatever. It doesn't sound like it from your description, with the lack of need to sleep and eat, but I thought I'd mention it.

Hi Lemrty!

I just wanted to throw out the possibility that perhaps you might have both Borderline and Bipolar. They're not mutually exclusive, just a little rarer to have than, say, Depression and Borderline. That being said, (and I don't mean to be offensive) it's also possible your Borderline was misdiagnosed and you've just got Bipolar.

All speculation on my end, since I don't know your story, the symptoms behind your Borderline, and whatnot. But from my personal experience of what I know about Bipolar, it sounds like a possibility that I'd suggest talking to your doctor about.

Good luck in finding answers. I hope this helps some.
~ Wolfy

How unfortunate to hear of your extended periods of depression.
Depression can become completely immobilizing... spending all day in bed with the curtains closed, too lifeless to even brush your teeth or have a shower. While you don't describe anything quite that severe, living month after month in a grey zone must be disheartening.

Your periods of relief, brief as they are, must be bliss. But your would be mania is free of the extremes that some bipolar people experience. You didn't mention wild and irresponsible extravagance, periods of promiscuity or delusions. All of which seem reasonable at the time but come with unpleasant consequences. You do mention eating and sleeping less.

You don't mention having a psychiatrist and your diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder is, as you put it, "unofficial". As the others have suggested, getting a referral to a psychiatrist is a good place to go from here. They are the ones who can help you with modern medication. I have personally really benefited from medication in conjunction with talk therapy.

Don't wait until your next up mood to see your doctor about this.
Get on with it. Even if you don't feel like it right now.

Take care,

Hi, I'm finally back to this thread. Thank you all for the answers. I also noticed afterwards that these kinds of threads weren't that 'allowed' here. So I apologize that I rushed to make this thread but am also grateful that you don't seem to mind.

As an answer to couple of things: Yes, I've thought about the possibility of bi-polar disorder as some kind of 'core disorder' concerning my moods, on top of which these possible other profiles (like borderline personality disorder) have built. My 'unofficial' diagnosis of BPD has been made by a psychiatrist according to SCID-2, but it wasn't an 'official' interview, and that's why I used the word 'unofficial' - so it wasn't just a self-diagnosis. I certainly fit many criteria of BPD, but it feels like there is something more to it; something more 'organic' (affecting my moods etc.) And yes, I have my curtains closed, I haven't showered or brushed my teeth, so some might say it has been pretty severe but I'm just used to it.

Anyway, I'm going to talk about this next time. These last weeks have been strange; first there was this elation and sense of activity and I didn't want to sleep or eat, and that lasted 2-3 weeks. Then there was this fatigue, depression, despair and passivity. It lasted almost a week; and then some sense of energy came back again, and got sort of 'mixed' with depression so that there is simultaneous hope and despair, energy and fatigue etc. - and still I somehow try to avoid sleeping because it feels as some kind of a threat, waste of time - in a way I might feel that sleeping would depress my energy furthermore and that's why I somehow intuitively dread it. So my clock has now turned up-side-down so that I've stayed awake at nights and fell asleep at day finally forced by the fatigue. There's also this slightly surreal sense to life at this point. I've also cried for no reason, and it's been simultaneously joyful and sad, and I don't know what to make of it. It's a strange mixture of opposites. And I might add that I'm a male so there isn't a possibility of some hormonal imbalance having to do with the time of month..

What you describe sounds like a mixed episode look up bipolar disorder and look into mixed episodes.

Crawling wrote:What you describe sounds like a mixed episode look up bipolar disorder and look into mixed episodes.

From what I gathered that certainly rings true. It's strange to be at the same time depressed and still somehow elevated. The main problem I think is that these sort of things rupture my whole ability to function in some purposeful way - I mean, there hasn't ever really been such an ability due to my drifting mind and dysfunctional moods. Even if there was an increased sense of ability, there still wouldn't be a clear aim, no move towards any concrete goals whatsoever. I've just read and written much with new energy, but still the thought of organizing and concentrating to the point of effective studying (I am a student) for example, seems impossible. Like there was only this strange and aimless spiraling in mostly depressive and tiresome, uninterested states sometimes turning into more active and energetic states and a sense of interest which lasts for sometime and ends spontaneously. And even in those energetic states, even though they are 'positive', I still just 'drift' or 'spiral' basically without a purpose.

Now in the midst of this surreality I feel agitated and chain-smoke (even more than usually) just waiting for the next time I'm appointed to meet a mental health practitioner so that I could bring this up. I'm also worried if this bi-polar question can be raised seriously now that my problems have in a way been labeled as primarily 'personality' problems.

And oh, I might also add that there has been some sort of sudden, unusual emotional 'religious' glimpses.. And now I read that manic dimensions of bi-polar disorder can manifest themselves in that way among others. And also a heightened sense of emotional connection to people (I usually have this sense of disconnection and avoidance due to that when depressed) - I've been (unusually) more positively responsive, talkative and compassionate and in a way floating in some sense of 'sweetness', even though my mind also feels foggy and depressed in certain way. Some of these things feel as though they were positive developments, but they are sudden and unexplained and it just feels weird because there still isn't a genuine peace of mind but a sense of imbalance... Concerning that I've also thought about death as I've used to for at least 10 years because of my depressive states, but now it doesn't feel like a 'downward spiral' but some kind of a 'joyous peak' - not serious plans about it though, just this weird sense of existence and destruction going hand in hand smiling. Mild euphorias, or at least standing on the 'doorstep' of euphoria from time to time. Even these poetical expressions seem to burst out as products of some sort of agitated inspiration and productivity. And I just can't seem to be able to keep my feet still while sitting, there is this sense of wanting to 'do' something although not clear what that would be.