Does stimulant med (vyvanse, specifically) trigger mania?

Does psychostimulant medication (vyvanse specifically as an example here) trigger mania in people with bipolar?

Is it possible to have mania triggered from psychstimulants without having any type of bipolar disorder?

Lastly, is bipolar ever treated with stimulants (specifically to induce hypomania, or possible to treat ADHD symptoms as well)?

These may or may not be odd questions... I've had unusual effects from the medication and what have essentially been briefly induced manic episodes and regular hypomania from this, yet I had never even considered bipolar (or what these states of mind even meant) until recently.

I am not trying to self-diagnose or anything, I am just trying to understand vyvanse's effects if anyone is at all familiar with it. Though if more information would help, I have been struggling with ADHD symptoms my entire life, and it has been a losing battle until vyvanse, which has a 'miraculous effect' on me making me want to complete work and have tremendous focus (hypomania?), and even pushing me further into the points of sparks of inspiration and brilliance that I would lose myself in for a time (mania?). Normally I suffer from depression regularly, and since I've stopped taking vyvanse it has gotten progressively worse.

(My psychologist and my psychiatrist both think that this is bipolar or schizoaffective, though I won't get into the latter, and either way it is not officially dx yet, but hopefully will have light shed on this soon, for my own sake.)

Just trying to learn more, bit by bit. Thank you for your time. Any help, shared experiences, advice, or simply people listening to my rambling would be deeply appreciated. Please bear with me, this is a learning experience for me... these are things I've only recently decided to directly deal with.

Edit: I should probably also ask, is hypomania and mania considered bad things? Being two separate questions. (My psychatrist is wanting me to go on abilify which I fear will make my already severe depression even worse. And I am sure this is complicated by the fact I am either schizotypal or schizoaffective, so let's just leave that part out for now...)

Koopa wrote:Does psychostimulant medication (vyvanse specifically as an example here) trigger mania in people with bipolar?

Is it possible to have mania triggered from psychstimulants without having any type of bipolar disorder?

Lastly, is bipolar ever treated with stimulants (specifically to induce hypomania, or possible to treat ADHD symptoms as well)?

The answer to your first question is yes, sometimes. And sometimes not. Second one: Yes, it is possible to have "mania" triggered by stimulants without actually having bipolar disorder. This is why one is usually required to have had a manic or hypomanic episode that was not caused by a drug for a diagnosis to be made. Bipolar disorder by itself is not treated with stimulants, due in part to the risk of triggering hypomania or mania, in part to the potentially addictive nature of stimulant medications, and in part because they're not mood-control drugs in the first place. There are definitely cases of co-morbid bipolar and ADHD, for which you're probably looking at a more carefully monitored, complicated cocktail, and/or a non-stimulant approach to the ADHD. It's worth noting that sometimes misdiagnoses occur between depression and ADHD vs. bipolar disorder, in either direction.

Koopa wrote:I am not trying to self-diagnose or anything, I am just trying to understand vyvanse's effects if anyone is at all familiar with it. Though if more information would help, I have been struggling with ADHD symptoms my entire life, and it has been a losing battle until vyvanse, which has a 'miraculous effect' on me making me want to complete work and have tremendous focus (hypomania?), and even pushing me further into the points of sparks of inspiration and brilliance that I would lose myself in for a time (mania?). Normally I suffer from depression regularly, and since I've stopped taking vyvanse it has gotten progressively worse.

(My psychologist and my psychiatrist both think that this is bipolar or schizoaffective, though I won't get into the latter, and either way it is not officially dx yet, but hopefully will have light shed on this soon, for my own sake.)

Hypomania and mania are usually a bit more than increased focus and inspiration, but I'm not doubting that you certainly could have experienced it and that I'm just not seeing it in your post... This is a good collection of things to look for, and in full-blown mania, note that it will by definition significantly impair your life and/or take you out of reality:
http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/g ... a-symptoms

If you've only had drug-induced mania or hypomania, a good doctor should be somewhat hesitant to diagnose you as bipolar, or schizoaffective for that matter. That qualifier has been in the DSM for ages...

Koopa wrote: I should probably also ask, is hypomania and mania considered bad things? Being two separate questions. (My psychatrist is wanting me to go on abilify which I fear will make my already severe depression even worse.

Hypomania and mania are bad things, yes. Apart from causing an observable loss of grey matter per episode, they are often irrational, destructive (to an individual and their relationships alike), and can put us in very dangerous situations as a consequence of impulsiveness, risk taking, etc. Whether a particular episode ends up embarrassing you, financially ruining you, destroying your relationships, putting you in a hospital, leaving you without material possessions, terrifying you (delusions, hallucinations, etc.), physically injuring you, or not, the risk of it getting out of control, going mixed, or crashing, is always going to be there. Mania and even hypomania = instability. And again, the brain damage problem. It's just not a good thing, no matter how nice it feels for some people some of the time.

And in my own very non-professional opinion, Abilify seems highly unlikely, to me, to make your depression worse; it tends to be activating. It threw me into hypomania after less than a week, and I've honestly never heard of it causing someone to feel more down... Though anything's possible with psych meds.

Lexicon_Devil wrote:

Koopa wrote:Does psychostimulant medication (vyvanse specifically as an example here) trigger mania in people with bipolar?

Is it possible to have mania triggered from psychstimulants without having any type of bipolar disorder?

Lastly, is bipolar ever treated with stimulants (specifically to induce hypomania, or possible to treat ADHD symptoms as well)?

The answer to your first question is yes, sometimes. And sometimes not. Second one: Yes, it is possible to have "mania" triggered by stimulants without actually having bipolar disorder. This is why one is usually required to have had a manic or hypomanic episode that was not caused by a drug for a diagnosis to be made. Bipolar disorder by itself is not treated with stimulants, due in part to the risk of triggering hypomania or mania, in part to the potentially addictive nature of stimulant medications, and in part because they're not mood-control drugs in the first place. There are definitely cases of co-morbid bipolar and ADHD, for which you're probably looking at a more carefully monitored, complicated cocktail, and/or a non-stimulant approach to the ADHD. It's worth noting that sometimes misdiagnoses occur between depression and ADHD vs. bipolar disorder, in either direction.

Koopa wrote:I am not trying to self-diagnose or anything, I am just trying to understand vyvanse's effects if anyone is at all familiar with it. Though if more information would help, I have been struggling with ADHD symptoms my entire life, and it has been a losing battle until vyvanse, which has a 'miraculous effect' on me making me want to complete work and have tremendous focus (hypomania?), and even pushing me further into the points of sparks of inspiration and brilliance that I would lose myself in for a time (mania?). Normally I suffer from depression regularly, and since I've stopped taking vyvanse it has gotten progressively worse.

(My psychologist and my psychiatrist both think that this is bipolar or schizoaffective, though I won't get into the latter, and either way it is not officially dx yet, but hopefully will have light shed on this soon, for my own sake.)

Hypomania and mania are usually a bit more than increased focus and inspiration, but I'm not doubting that you certainly could have experienced it and that I'm just not seeing it in your post... This is a good collection of things to look for, and in full-blown mania, note that it will by definition significantly impair your life and/or take you out of reality:
http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/g ... a-symptoms

If you've only had drug-induced mania or hypomania, a good doctor should be somewhat hesitant to diagnose you as bipolar, or schizoaffective for that matter. That qualifier has been in the DSM for ages...

In the past, I used to be able to work myself up into hypomania. I just didn't realize it worked that way at the time. As time has gone on, it has been harder and harder though to push myself into it. Music usually helps, but I am almost entirely trapped in depression.

Mania I have also triggered briefly in myself, but I tend to quickly exhaust myself in this state of mind and can never keep it for more than an hour or two. It is exceptionally rare... I have to be truly inspired and lose myself in this blissful feeling where the world around me feels different and I see and understand things I never would. It is only afterwards that I see that I had delusional thinking and that not everything was logical, even if it truly does feel incredible and is very creative with what little tools (knowledge of things in general) I have to work with.

Hypomania for me is generally just the desire to push myself into accomplishing something. Or perhaps it is the frustration of doing nothing, and the need to push myself... it is only recently I've recognized these things.

Sorry, the way I am posting this it's probably starting to look like self-diagnosis. I don't want to turn this thread this way. All this said, I can offer an excerpt of something I wrote in a digital journal I was keeping at the time while under what I feel can only be mania if that might help clear anything up a bit.

Either way I probably mispoke... vyvanse doesn't trigger this mania directly, it just makes it easier and more enticing to feel that way. The feeling is made easy from an active (even racing) mind that needs more, but I believe a calm state instead of letting it race. Either way I am certain vyvanse is not simply giving the intended effect, and in addition I have to add that I have never been able to take enough stimulants to feel bad (jittery, etc, not that I'm not but that by the time I reach that point if I reach that point, my mind becomes preoccupied with a proactive desire or blissful feeling that overwhelms me).

Forgive me, right now I am recovering from once such self-induced episode so I am rambling like crazy... I'm trying to figure things out, and will get help from a professional in diagnosing it soon. I just want to know how vyvanse effects bipolar, and if it is an effective treatment -- if mania and hypomania are bad things to be avoided or good things to desire.

Koopa wrote: I should probably also ask, is hypomania and mania considered bad things? Being two separate questions. (My psychatrist is wanting me to go on abilify which I fear will make my already severe depression even worse.

Hypomania and mania are bad things, yes. Apart from causing an observable loss of grey matter per episode, they are often irrational, destructive (to an individual and their relationships alike), and can put us in very dangerous situations as a consequence of impulsiveness, risk taking, etc. Whether a particular episode ends up embarrassing you, financially ruining you, destroying your relationships, putting you in a hospital, leaving you without material possessions, terrifying you (delusions, hallucinations, etc.), physically injuring you, or not, the risk of it getting out of control, going mixed, or crashing, is always going to be there. Mania and even hypomania = instability. And again, the brain damage problem. It's just not a good thing, no matter how nice it feels for some people some of the time.

Disturbing and admittedly disappointing to hear... because these episodes are the only times I've ever been able to do anything, and lately even escape the overwhelming pit of depression I am rapidly sinking into day by day.

My 'manic episodes' certainly feel irrational after the fact, and while I feel more impulsive I generally don't have much risk of ruining my life, but plenty of opportunities to make myself look/act like a fool or crazy person. I've never felt violent or angry in mania, I don't know that's a thing...

And at least one time after a manic episode, I started having fairly severe psychotic symptoms.

The worst part is that it literally causes brain damage. I am especially concerned by this... how severe is this? Either way, if this is true, there is nothing I can do but stop taking vyvanse, even if it helps me where nothing else could, the price is far too high... lately my memory and emotions (and to an extent, positive symptoms) have seemingly deteriorated significantly and negative symptoms grow worse day by day (depression). This makes things much more complicated...

And in my own very non-professional opinion, Abilify seems highly unlikely, to me, to make your depression worse; it tends to be activating. It threw me into hypomania after less than a week, and I've honestly never heard of it causing someone to feel more down... Though anything's possible with psych meds.

I hope you are right, but I am afraid... my depression is likely the worst lately I've felt in my entire life, I am constantly feeling suicidal thoughts, and far more severely and convincing than ever before lately, so if it made it worse that would obviously not be good...

(As for abilify, anti-depressants have never helped me, and this will (would) be my first time even attempting any kind of anti-psychotic.)

Thank you for telling me about this, it is crucial for me to know and is a tremendous help. This is going to make things a lot harder for me, but at least I know now. Well... I suppose we probably haven't quite covered for sure whether I am experiencing mania and hypomania, but I am pretty sure it is. It's like an entirely different state of mind, I lose myself in both cases in a sense, and become an entirely different person. I can't imagine it's mere coincidence.

Edit: I may be confusing hypomania and mania. I am not sure. My hypomania may be something else though, and my mania itself hypomania. Or it could be as I suspect it to be. I just don't know...

I'm not really comfortable with self-disclosure, but I am more than willing to share an example of how I feel when under what I am assuming mania to be, if it will help shed light on this.

My 'mania' has never reached an extreme that it makes me feel erratic or dangerous. Or maybe it's just how I am, the chains that bind me always holding me back indirectly, I have strong symptoms of avoidant personality disorder which, whether or not I have it, have always caused me to be much more withdrawn than a normal person. But now I am just throwing out theory and conjecture... *sigh* I just don't know for sure.

Edit 2: The description given of mania might be the discomfort and psychosis I have felt my hypomanic feeling crashes sometimes. I am starting to understand this a little better I think... but I just don't know. Is that the cycle? Normal/depressed > Hypomanic > manic? In a sense, that mania is the feeling you get if/when hypomania crashes, in that sense?

Edit 3 (last one, I swear): Reading the symptoms in detail, they match up more with what I originally felt was mania. I think the psychosis I have felt once or twice was something different... it was a negative feeling, severely negative not positive at all. Mania is the high as I suspected, not the crashing or the low, right? I feel like I am just rambling now. I'm sorry.

I know for a fact that any manic or hypomanic episodes I might have had in the past did not last for days, but rather for mere hours. I just don't know.