Two important questions about medications

I found that medications are a great tool, which I used for years during my recovery process. I am truly thankful for that. I advocate good psychiatry. Unfortunately, I noticed that a lot of people automatically assume that bipolar disorder means that medications ARE necessary. This is NOT true. There are alternatives to medications that are effective and safe for many bipolar individuals, but I haven't found any that are easy. I am writing this post because I think people should know thier options at any stage in their recovery process. I also hope that more people seriously ask themselves questions like the following ones.

1) DO you want to be stable without medications? I think that answering "yes" is a good thing even if you never achieve it. Remember that a doctor should always be involved in any approach to discontinue meds. Further, I think that it helps your doctor to know what you want (either way). If you want to use medications for life, then this is a perfectly good choice. Otherwise, if you want to become med-free someday, then a follow-up question is:

2) How MUCH do you want to be stable without medications? This is where I see a LOT of differences in people (especially on this forum). Although some bipolar individuals say that they want to be stable without meds, I have seen very few who are truly serious about doing what it takes to succeed. Again, I stress the importance of being responsible and working with a qualified doctor.

I would like to know how many people are even told about recovery from any mental problem.

Ian Reynir wrote:There are alternatives to medications that are effective and safe for many bipolar individuals

Which are...

Ian Reynir wrote:Although some bipolar individuals say that they want to be stable without meds, I have seen very few who are truly serious about doing what it takes to succeed.

Which is...

In my opinion you may or may not be able to manage bipolar affective disorder without meds. Everyone is different. Deciding you do not want to go down this route, or being unable to does not make you a failure or not invested enough in your recovery. Felt I need to say that. For those of you who can manage without meds that is great tho, more power to you.

Cracked

@Infinite_Jester - alternatives to meds vary from person to person. As a underlying theme to the approach that I used to recover, I discussed many times on this forum about aligning self-idenity, life-challenges, and life's work. I've given a lot of information and I realized that this forum is not a good place to explain details. One reason is that I would have to post a unreasonably large number of explanations and examples. That's ineffective, so I won't do it here. I have documentation elsewhere. Anyone interested in an organized and comprehensive description of one alternative to meds should feel free to pm me.

As for the general guidelines that I gave in previous posts and the "alignment" idea, I found that it takes a lot of sustained work. It doesn't come easy, but it is very possible to effectively "re-order" a particular "dis-order", specifically bipolar disorder. That really isn't a topic that I would like to debate anymore. I have done so already on this forum and it is meaningless. My main point is that people should know that these two questions can be very useful to answer so that you know what you want to do. Just about anything is possible if you want it enough. Human potental is truly an impressive thing.

For anyone who doesn't want to be free of meds, no complaints from me. It is a perfectly safe and responsible approach that works for nearly every bipolar. Nuff said.

For anyone who wants to be med free but doesn't feel like it's possible, I feel your pain. Just know that faith in yourself will make the difference. Make sure that any approach you decide to take is a responsible one and that you work with a qualified doctor.

Ian Reynir wrote:My main point is that people should know that these two questions can be very useful to answer so that you know what you want to do. Just about anything is possible if you want it enough. Human potental is truly an impressive thing.

I agree w/r/t human potential and the importance of motivation and attitude, but, to be blunt, I think it's somewhat disrespectful to say "you can get off your medications if you really really want it and have the super motivation that I have". It doesn't help that, when pressed, your only response to what you're really advocating is:

Ian Reynir wrote:aligning self-idenity, life-challenges, and life's work. (whatever that's supposed to mean... )

Of course, there are a whole class of other treatment modalties and coping strategies you haven't mentioned because this forum isn't a good place to discuss details...

Again, being very blunt here, I don't think what you're describing "is a perfectly safe and responsible approach that works for nearly every bipolar" because you're not describing anything. It's the same kind of motivational speaker rhetoric that sells books with promissory catch phrases like "you can do it!"

It's not helpful and it occupies people's time when they could be exposed to empirically validated treatment modalities and coping strategies and the implication that everyone can be free from mental disorder if they really really want it is just insulting.

You're free to post what you want, but I think it's all BS.

@ Infinite_Jester - you do know that my post is about asking two questions? You imply that anyone can simply "really really want it" and they'll get it? Very odd. You insult me by saying that my ideas are BS, but you have not offered genuine critisim. I've read many of your posts, and your last comment is uncharacteristicly unsupported.

I've been learning how to play chess and it's interesting to compare this activity with learning how to recover from bipolar disorder. I could ask someone on a chess forum how to play chess like the masters and I would be out of luck because everyone knows that it takes a lot of work, even for the prodigies. To say that I can spell out how to recover without meds on a post is rediculous. It takes years of hard work and dedication. It's a lot like earning a phd - not everyone wants it enough. Even some people who really really want a phd don't get it. Are they failures? No, they could be very intelligent and find other things that could easily be better for them.

There's plenty of great options for people with bipolar disorder, depending on what you "want" to do and what you're willing to do to succeed. I am emphasizing the "want" here because I think it is important to know what you want. Do you want to be on meds for life? If so, then all the power to you. As I mentioned, this is a responsible approach that works. See what I mean?

If you're angry because you think my approach is either not sound or not general enough, then you may rip it apart all you like. Feel free - I don't even claim that my approach good for everyone. I'm sure many people could develop their own approach. Honestly, I thought that developing my own approach for recovery was about as difficult as my phd.

Peace, Ian

I don't think anyone really wants to be on meds for life. It's just that it's been shown that for people who have bipolar, staying on meds reduces the chance of relapse. So I think "want" is irrelevant. What matters is what's been shown to work.

I agree wholeheartedly with Exiled and Infinite Jester. I never wanted to be on meds in the first place, and resisted them for a long time. I put EVERYTHING into trying to avoid psychiatry. And it didn't matter how badly I wanted it, or what I did. It was still there, and getting worse. Let it be noted before you point to "dis-order" that I'm highly organized (often several years out), have goals and aspirations that I'm actively making progress on, and have a pretty strong sense of my identity/character. To imply that wanting it badly enough and working hard enough will lead to a med-free solution is pretty insulting to those of us (I presume most of us) who are constantly working as hard as we can to attain stability, often who have tried multiple approaches, and are falling short anyway.

To answer your questions:
1) Yes. I think everyone on here would answer yes. No one wants to be on medications if it's possible to actually be stable without them. Otherwise, what would the point of buying and taking them be? For fun? Mood stabilizers aren't recreational. The question is absurd and filled with both presumption and feigned ignorance, allowing only one rational answer in its construction.
2) The initial "yes" is pretty absolute. Redundant question, motivational rhetoric.

Also, the sentence, "I have seen very few who are truly serious about doing what it takes to succeed," is dangerous and ridiculous, in that it implies that those who are "truly serious" (do you think most of us aren't serious about finding stability?) will use your methods to become well without meds and will subsequently "succeed" (which is a vague term without much universal meaning in the first place, and which looks different for each individual and therefore would require disparate methods). It's arrogant and condecending at best. If you assign success to something you yourself have said not many of us can attain, you set most of us up for failure by your standards. You have anecdotal evidence that your approach works, not empirical, repeated, studied evidence, and to pass off your anecdotal "cure" as something only accessible to an implied sort of mentally elite/superior manic-depressive population just seems like a means of protecting your approach from criticism should everyone else who tries it fail. You say you stress responsibility and working with a qualified doctor, but how do you define that? It's easy to think you're being responsible when you're not; in fact, one might even say that it's irresponsible to abandon scientifically supported treatment models for an anecdotal miracle cure (and again, as you've emphasized in other posts, only a select population of us would probably "be able to do it," which strikes me as yet another motivational tool to make those who don't try your approach feel weak/invalidated).

I lastly want to point out there are plenty of bipolars (especially type 1) who have multi-year remissions. That does not equate to a cure, and it is ethically questionable to consider and market yourself as cured -- and especially to offer that alleged solution to others -- without at least a few years or more of stability under your belt. If you had been completely stable for a decade before coming here, I would likely be inclined to reevaluate your claims. As it stands, not so much.

Ian Reynir wrote:You insult me by saying that my ideas are BS, but you have not offered genuine critisim.

There are three criticisms that I put forward. The first is that you're exaggerating the power of motivation and attitude and it's effect on whether or not someone needs medication to prevent having a future episode or to able to function. The second is that what you're describing isn't actually a treatment modality or a coping skill. It's totally vacuous. No one can carry out the advice you're giving because it's non-existent. We're just left to try and piece together what you mean. The third is that what you're saying, the stuff that's clear enough for us to understand, is insulting. Here's a gem:

Ian Reynir wrote:[Recovering from Bipolar Disorder is] a lot like earning a phd - not everyone wants it enough.

Is that why there are people that end up in and out of hospitals their whole life? Or why some people end up in such a state of unbearable mental suffering that they opt for suicide? They just don't want to recover enough? Maybe they need to just have a 5-minute huddle and ask themselves what they really really want and align their self identity...

Ian Reynir wrote:If you're angry because you think my approach is either not sound or not general enough, then you may rip it apart all you like.

What approach! You haven't explained anything that a person could do to improve their mood! It's all vacuous stuff like this:

Ian Reynir wrote:aligning self-idenity, life-challenges, and life's work.

But, of course, your approach is more like a skill that is too difficult to describe in any detail. It's more knowing how to play chess well. It's not for everyone because not everyone wants it....

Look Ian, I get private messages about once every few weeks from someone on the forum telling me they're psychotic or manic to the extent that they can't cope with living anymore. They tell me that they want to die and I take them really seriously. How should I apply your approach? Should I ask them to meditate on whether or not they really want to be psychotic, manic or suicidal? Or should I ask them to really take a moment and think about their self identity and whether or not it's matching up to their conduct?

As obvious as it is that I'm mocking your pseudo-advice, I'm curious to see if you have anything explicit to say about coping.