I'm new. It's nice to find this place.

I know it sounds cliche but it really does seem like I'm the only one who feels this way sometimes so it's nice to see that there are others. I've never had an official diagnosis but it's pretty obvious to me what's wrong. Ever since I was little I had a desire to do things that would hurt myself and I've always been very shy and quiet. Once I get to know someone however, the real me comes out and I'm perfectly fine. It's meeting people that's so difficult because I get very nervous and terrified that I will say or do something that will make me look stupid. Being that I'm kind of an eccentric weirdo the possibilty that I will say or do something silly is quite high so the fear isn't exactly unrealistic. The real problem is that most people simply aren't willing to wait around until you open up to them. They just write you off quickly and assume you're boring. This being alone when you really crave being around people brings on self hatred for being so damn stupid. It's a strange cycle of self destruction. Sometimes the realization that I don't have many friends and that I will likely remain that way makes no longer living look quite nice though I'm not silly enough to actually do that. When I do have close friends or a romantic relationship things improve dramatically for me unless I feel the other person might leave at which point I can't control myself and I act irrational. I am now single and I hate it but I have to get used to it. I have very few friends and the ones I have I don't see or talk to very much. It's odd. I sit around wishing they would call me and when they do I don't answer the phone. It's like I'm trying to torture myself. Sometimes I feel like I deserve it. The weirdest thing about all this...I love who I am. I think I'm a very cool person. What really makes me angry is that I just don't seem to fit in, that the rest of the world doesn't see who I really am. I'm a square peg living in a world full of round holes. So anyway, I've never really mentioned any of this to anyone because people will think I'm crazy and I guess I am a little bit. Besides, telling people you have no friends makes you look like a kook. The only person I've ever told all this to was my ex-wife when we were splitting up. Her response was that I needed to quit being stupid. Wow! What great advice! So now I spend all my time alone making music and watching movies. Being creative makes me feel much better but I still feel pathetic when I look around and realize this is how my life will be from now on. I have made big efforts to change my situation however. I began keeping a journal to try and pinpoint things I'm doing that are wrong. I also have forced myself to go out and do things in public such as going to concerts even though I feel like a total dork going to things like that alone. Also a girl came up to me recently and started talking to me and then asked me out. My first reaction was to agree but never actually go. Instead I forced myself to go and it turned out fairly well I think. The good thing was that when we met up to hang out and talk she seemed very nervous and talked a lot which worked out very well for me as I didn't have to say a whole lot. Anyway, bottom line...I think I have an avoidant problem and I think I possibly have borderline tendencies as well. I don't know why I'm so avoidant but I think the borderline characteristics are caused by my mother's suicide when I was a baby. This sounds silly but it seems like if you're own mother didn't want you then who will? Anyway it's a long ranting post, I know. But it's nice to find this place. I'm trying to get better but it isn't easy and the average person would never understand if I told them what was wrong. In fact most people laugh at the concept of a personality disorder. I know many people who think most all "mental" problems are just B.S. dreamed up by companies to sell drugs and slap labels on things. So when you're surrounded by people who feel that way how are you supposed to admit you're not always so stable? The best option is to keep your mouth shut and act. Most people I know probably have no idea anything is wrong. I'm quite the actor. I don't share my music with people I know because I'm afraid if they heard what I created they would think I was crazy. It's such a weird problem. Desiring human contact but being too freaked out to bother with it and then hating yourself and trying to mentally destroy yourself over it. And then when people actually do want to be around you you push them away. One way or another I will stop this but it won't be easy. In the meantime I guess I'll just keep watching movies and making music. Being this way does help me to be creative but is it really worth it?

hello and welcome to the site, this is my first -or possibly second posting. You sound just like me and yes it was a revelation to come across this site and find others like me. I'll try to write more about myself soon.

I understand how you feel. I have issues with my family and rejection. It happened later in life though. They belong to what some people call a religious cult and I got out of it and then everyone I knew including my family would not associate with me anymore. I think that is the heart of my avoidant problem. If people who are supposed to care about me so much according to others beliefs would turn me away so fast then why bother with others. But even before that I really didn't like people much.

I'm avoidant and a singer/songwriter as well, and equally bad at both. I also write stuff too. It seems to be my method of communication as my personality and social skill levels are dismal. People say I have talent but I've yet to turn it into money.

Automaton, your post is very much similar to my experience. I am doing a little better at the moment, but at any time I can slip back into total isolation for days, sometimes weeks.

When I am isolated I tend to fall back on my poor compulsive behaviours in order to kill time and deal with being alone and the constant dialog I have going on in my mind over it.. Overeating is my biggest compulsive behviour. Lots of mastrubation. Excessive excercising (good on its own, but I use it to cope). Music 24/7. Some work just to keep busy. Reading blogs (so stupid reading about other peoples lives rather than living my own). Drinking diet colas. Pot (I can actually feel free and happy for a bit, even if is fake and does nothing for my issues). Alcohal (although thankfully this is rare). Anything to block my mind from the fact that I am a social failure, and that I am so far from being where I want to be.

Despite the fact that I have been reading/posting here for a little while now, I am still constantly amazed by the similarities among avoidants. I hate to keep saying, "Hey! Me too!" but sometimes other people say it better than I could myself!

Automaton wrote:I know it sounds cliche but it really does seem like I'm the only one who feels this way sometimes so it's nice to see that there are others. I've never had an official diagnosis but it's pretty obvious to me what's wrong. Once I get to know someone however, the real me comes out and I'm perfectly fine. It's meeting people that's so difficult because I get very nervous and terrified that I will say or do something that will make me look stupid. Being that I'm kind of an eccentric weirdo the possibilty that I will say or do something silly is quite high so the fear isn't exactly unrealistic... Sometimes the realization that I don't have many friends and that I will likely remain that way makes no longer living look quite nice though I'm not silly enough to actually do that... I have very few friends and the ones I have I don't see or talk to very much. It's odd. I sit around wishing they would call me and when they do I don't answer the phone.... What really makes me angry is that I just don't seem to fit in, that the rest of the world doesn't see who I really am. I'm a square peg living in a world full of round holes. So anyway, I've never really mentioned any of this to anyone because people will think I'm crazy and I guess I am a little bit. ... Being creative makes me feel much better but I still feel pathetic when I look around and realize this is how my life will be from now on.

...how are you supposed to admit you're not always so stable? The best option is to keep your mouth shut and act. Most people I know probably have no idea anything is wrong. I'm quite the actor.

Automaton, I think the best thing you said is YOU LIKE YOURSELF. Good for you (not trying to sound patronizing, I mean it). At least you recognize your own good qualities. This is the conundrum for avoidants sometimes, I think. We DO have good qualities, we ARE good and interesting people - it's just a combination of fear or discomfort around other people that keeps us from living up to our full potential. I think a lot of avoidants can't see their good qualities. There is something ingrained in our mentalities that make us feel fundamentally flawed. Having any kind of negative or traumatic event happen at any point in your life might cause this - but perhaps avoidants are just far most sensitive to these events and don't bounce back like others seem to manage to. I'm not trying to speak for everyone, by any means, but having read lots of other posts, this is the impression I get. I would bet money, though, that most avoidants are quite intelligent, creative and talented, from what I can gather. I KNOW that I am smart and very creative. But when I am around other people I feel stupid and inferior, which is quite ridiculous, because if there was some kind of test of human potential I'd probably score higher than most - it's just the social part that's the problem!!! Why can't I convince myself, of all people, that I am worth something? I was fortunate in that the one intimate relationship I had in my life, my (now ex-)boyfriend helped me to see all of my good qualities and point out my irrational thinking. He pointed out all the ways other people are far from perfect and how, in a lot of ways, I was actually better than them. (this sounds arrogant, but if you only knew how little self-esteem I actually have...)

Yes, it does seem rather dreary imagining life going on like this forever. I want friends, then I find them, then they start calling me and *I* don't answer the phone EITHER! Talk about catch-22. Most romantic relationships are SOOO uncomfortable for me. I feel like I have to constantly be putting on an act, because no one would like or understand the REAL me. I can only bear this for a short time and really all I am doing is waiting for the other person to discover what I am really like and break up with me. But since the thought of that rejection is SO unbearable I either break up with them first or find some other way to drive them away. (I went to school overseas, so leaving the country worked great - I didn't even have to break up... just went away and never came back!!!)

I just look at myself and my life and don't know what the hell to do with it. I don't know how the hell to explain it to other people either. I don't feel like I fit in and never have. I've posted elsewhere about these topics, but I still can't help but wonder if we have a creativity or type of intelligence or just sensitivy that causes us to experience life in a way that is so foreign to others that it leaves us feeling like aliens on our own planet and the only people who can understand our language is others like us. Damn, I wish we could have a convention, we'd all get on great if any of us would show up! Ha ha!

All I know is that I CANNOT do the things that other people do. Things that most people take for granted and even LIKE - going to the grocery store, driving, dating, going out for drinks, work, whatever - I just can't handle them. I don't know how to chit-chat, I hate it and it's the basis of most social interaction. That is LIFE for most people, so if I can't do any of that, where the hell do I fit in? I've always wanted to found my own country. If I could figure out a way to use my talents and make some money, well, that would be ideal and I might even get on just fine without people - problem is everything involves people. If you come up with creative work or anything else, you have to be able to "sell" yourself and that's the last thing I can do.

Sometimes it seems like life is just one big, long series of painful events. Everything that normal life consists of for "normal" people causes me intense anxiety and I usually don't have much choice but to FORCE myself, endure it best I can (and no, most people have no idea there is anything wrong with me, except my occasional inexplicable behavior - like not showing up to my sister's baby shower, like one would expect). I explained some of this to my therapist and she's like, "Wow! That's what life is like for you?" It just proves the point that, although I have mentioned avoidant personality numerous times, NO ONE has a clue about it - and it's not taken seriously (compared to bipolar,schizophrenia, borderline... more common issues).

Automaton, it's great that you are so introspective about your experiences, because that is probably how you will learn the most about your condition (aside from this forum). Obviously your mother's suicide would be a huge factor in your development. Do you have any idea whether she suffered from a particular mental illness or personality disorder herself?

I think you may be mistaken though about figuring out what you are doing WRONG. Since learning about AvPD, I have allowed myself to feel "normal" being this way, because it is "normal" for ME... and now I know I am not the only one. I think we are just different from most people for whatever reason and I'm going to accept myself that way and try to navigate my life accordingly. That doesn't mean that I can avoid everything, but I am doing everything to arrange a lifestyle that fits who I am and and not try to fit into that round hole, 'cause it ain't gonna happen anyway! Of course, that may take years and years... but I'm going to respect the way I am rather than change it. I think we might be able to learn skills that will help us through life better. Maybe it's easy for me to say, because I have just given up on having meaningful relationships, so maybe I am not the best person to speak, since I am more or less resigned to being like this. HOWEVER, I find that the more I can reduce some of the stressors, the better I am able to deal with others.

Anyway, sorry to go on and on as I usually do (see I can be quite talkative here ), so I will wrap up. But I cannot express how much it helps to find people who can relate (at least to some extent) to how you feel about social situations. Now, being avoidant that's not easy, but someday, somewhere, all of us are bound to run into someone that is shy or introverted and these people are less likely to judge the way we are because they will understand a bit. Plus cool people usually recognize and respect other cool people. Maybe we are just way cooler than the rest. Ha ha! Just trying to make everybosy feel better about themselves. I think we are a damn special bunch, even if no one knows it but us.

I KNOW that I am smart and very creative. But when I am around other people I feel stupid and inferior, which is quite ridiculous, because if there was some kind of test of human potential I'd probably score higher than most - it's just the social part that's the problem!!! Why can't I convince myself, of all people, that I am worth something? I was fortunate in that the one intimate relationship I had in my life, my (now ex-)boyfriend helped me to see all of my good qualities and point out my irrational thinking. He pointed out all the ways other people are far from perfect and how, in a lot of ways, I was actually better than them. (this sounds arrogant, but if you only knew how little self-esteem I actually have...)

For myself at least for the longest time I had to either be better or worse than I perceived other people to be. I would dress down among the wealthy, dress up to go to the gas station. I dressed so that I never had to interact with people, I was seperate. Didn't matter whether I was dressing/acting blue collar or white collar, was a big deal not being like everyone else.

I still do it and am not sure what to make of it. I get having to convince myself to leave the house, but now this disorder even has control of the clothes I wear?

Adna wrote:Automaton, I think the best thing you said is YOU LIKE YOURSELF. Good for you (not trying to sound patronizing, I mean it). At least you recognize your own good qualities.

Yes but sometimes I get very mentally self destructive and I seriously hate myself and feel completely worthless. I've learned however that if I just ride it out it will go away in about 30 minutes or so. But while it lasts it's seriously extreme.

Adna wrote:I want friends, then I find them, then they start calling me and *I* don't answer the phone EITHER!

Hahaha! Cool! I'm not the only one who does that insane crap!

Adna wrote:If you come up with creative work or anything else, you have to be able to "sell" yourself and that's the last thing I can do.

Exactly. I make lots of music but I usually give it away free since selling it will require meeting other people face to face. I don't mind if other people hear what I've made as long as the two following criteria are met:
1. I can't personally know them very well. They will probably be scared of me or think I'm loopy so I don't want them hearing it.
2. People I don't personally know are more than welcome to listen to it but I don't want to be in the room with them when they do.

I once made some CDs and took them around to music stores to sell on consignment. Much to my horror several clerks gathered around to see what was being brought in and they insisted on listening to it immediately. I got very freaked out and asked them to wait until I left because they would probably think it was crap. They insisted to play it right then. Thankfully they all liked it a lot and each of them immediately bought a copy of the CD right then. Man that was scary! That could have turned out very bad! I'd love to find a way to do my music live but getting on a stage would probably make me pass out and die.

Adna wrote:Automaton, it's great that you are so introspective about your experiences, because that is probably how you will learn the most about your condition (aside from this forum). Obviously your mother's suicide would be a huge factor in your development. Do you have any idea whether she suffered from a particular mental illness or personality disorder herself?

I'm not sure. My family refuses to talk about her. For the longest time when I was a kid they wouldn't even tell me what happened to her. When i was 17 I stumbled upon a hidden photo album with pictures of her in it. They were from the wedding and a short time after. When my parents married she was 20 I think. She died when she was 21. In her wedding photos she looks very depressed and gloomy. I also found a letter she had written where she was complaining about going crazy and that she could not take rasing a kid. I never knew anyone from her side of the family. My dad's side of the family would have nothing to do with them and I get the feeling that my mom's family felt the same way. Growing up I was always being told that I look and act just like her. I didn't think anything of it then but now I'm beginning to wonder.

I want friends, then I find them, then they start calling me and *I* don't answer the phone EITHER!

This is me EVERY time I meet someone.

I KNOW that I am smart and very creative. But when I am around other people I feel stupid and inferior

Ditto- I always feel like I'm made of hollow piece of glass and people can see right through me and there's nothing there. The thing with me is that I've always thought I was smart but just dumbest person in the room. Or that I'm creative, just not creative enough to make a living at doing something creative.

Most romantic relationships are SOOO uncomfortable for me. I feel like I have to constantly be putting on an act, because no one would like or understand the REAL me. I can only bear this for a short time and really all I am doing is waiting for the other person to discover what I am really like and break up with me. But since the thought of that rejection is SO unbearable I either break up with them first or find some other way to drive them away.

Again, me to the teeth. I constantly have this feeling like I'm going to be "found out," that somehow I'm a fraud and he'll see it and go running for the hills. I remember telling my exboyfriend in the very beginning of our relationship (the only somewhat substantially intimate relationship I've managed to maintain) that I'm known to just stop calling people for weeks or months on end so consider yourself warned. I was so defensive and self-destructive all at once. Talk about self-fullfilling prophesy!

Damn, I wish we could have a convention, we'd all get on great if any of us would show up! Ha ha!

This is too painfully true!!

hey automaton- i'm listening to your music. it goes nicely with my mood right now