Do females have it easier?

The argument that men and women both have it equally bad follows this form;


1) The problem is exclusively about self-valuation and;
2) Both men and women who avoid establishing relationships will do so to unpredictable, varying extents. Therefore;
3) Any valuation of severity is essentially meaningless unless the valuation is focused on individual people, and not generalized by gender.

1) The problem is exclusively about self-valuation and;

Can't agree with this. Once a woman gets started (and assuming she is pretty enough) she will find she needs to do less than a male avie getting started would. For women it's just a case of her getting out and failing to say "no" at the right time whereas the man will generally have to drive the outcome. Women are more complex than men to figure out, so that is going to make it harder for male avies as well. Also, as I said in my first place, once she gets out her lack of confidence is going to be less of a turnoff to the opposite gender than it would be for men so another smaller (albeit still existent) hurdle to overcome.

2) Both men and women who avoid establishing relationships will do so to unpredictable, varying
extents. Therefore;
3) Any valuation of severity is essentially meaningless unless the valuation is focused on individual people, and not generalized by gender.

Not following this logic here. Men will run a mile in unpredictable, varying times, as will women. But, by your logic we can't conclude one sex is a faster mile runner in general?

AlAtBar wrote:Can't agree with this. Once a woman gets started (and assuming she is pretty enough) she will find she needs to do less than a male avie getting started would. For women it's just a case of her getting out and failing to say "no" at the right time whereas the man will generally have to drive the outcome. Women are more complex than men to figure out, so that is going to make it harder for male avies as well. Also, as I said in my first place, once she gets out her lack of confidence is going to be less of a turnoff to the opposite gender than it would be for men so another smaller (albeit still existent) hurdle to overcome.

Not a binary, cut and dry thing. You don't fail to say "no" once and then magically end up in a healthy relationship. Reality is a lot trickier and harder to avoid.

Not following this logic here. Men will run a mile in unpredictable, varying times, as will women. But, by your logic we can't conclude one sex is a faster mile runner in general?

We're not talking about natural predispositions, here.

lilnumber9 wrote:You don't fail to say "no" once and then magically end up in a healthy relationship. Reality is a lot trickier and harder to avoid.

Agree it's complex. But it's generally the man's job to sort through all the complexity and drive things, whereas women can get away with being more passive and along for the ride. But that just further demonstrates that male avies are going to have it harder than female ones.

We're not talking about the difficulties of getting laid here, are we?
Because if we are, of course it's easier for a woman, avoidant or not. Ugly as hell or not.

But if we are talking about the difficulties of living with AvPD, or the difficulties of getting a real and healthy relationship, that's a totally different story.

The reasoning that women have it easier seems to be:

1, Men are stronger (physically and mentally) and more capable than women.

2, Avoidant men should, according to the laws of nature, be better off than avoidant women, because of this supremeness.

3, Avoidant men and avoidant women seems, nontheless, to be equally screwd.

4, Avoidant women therefore has to have it easier, which can account for this bewildering observation.

AlAtBar wrote:

lilnumber9 wrote:You don't fail to say "no" once and then magically end up in a healthy relationship. Reality is a lot trickier and harder to avoid.

Agree it's complex. But it's generally the man's job to sort through all the complexity and drive things, whereas women can get away with being more passive and along for the ride. But that just further demonstrates that male avies are going to have it harder than female ones.

I am a guy and my own experience disagrees. Of course, the women who approach you when you're shy as all hell probably aren't the sorts you want to get into a relationship with. So now I'm even more hesitant to get involved with anybody as a result. Nasty negative feedback mechanism.

-- Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:39 pm --

VenusWillendorf wrote:The reasoning that women have it easier seems to be:

1, Men are stronger (physically and mentally) and more capable than women.

2, Avoidant men should, according to the laws of nature, be better off than avoidant women, because of this supremeness.

3, Avoidant men and avoidant women seems, nontheless, to be equally screwd.

4, Avoidant women therefore has to have it easier, which can account for this bewildering observation.

You got it.

lilnumber9 wrote:Do women have it easier when it comes to clipping their fingernails? Men have to do it all the time, but women can grow their nails out really long if they want. It's no fair! I demand reparations! Matriarchy must stop!

Men also have to shave every now and then. It gets really tiring being a man.

Gelazar wrote:

lilnumber9 wrote:Do women have it easier when it comes to clipping their fingernails? Men have to do it all the time, but women can grow their nails out really long if they want. It's no fair! I demand reparations! Matriarchy must stop!

Men also have to shave every now and then. It gets really tiring being a man.

Women have to shave their legs according to social conventions, so we're not evenly matched on that field. I prefer to ignore it and pretend such inequities don't exist.

What about long hair, though? My family's pastor said I'm sinning by having long hair, but Suzie-Q got herself a ponytail!

lilnumber9 wrote:

Gelazar wrote:

lilnumber9 wrote:Do women have it easier when it comes to clipping their fingernails? Men have to do it all the time, but women can grow their nails out really long if they want. It's no fair! I demand reparations! Matriarchy must stop!

Men also have to shave every now and then. It gets really tiring being a man.

Women have to shave their legs according to social conventions, so we're not evenly matched on that field. I prefer to ignore it and pretend such inequities don't exist.

What about long hair, though? My family's pastor said I'm sinning by having long hair, but Suzie-Q got herself a ponytail!

It's a Jesus thing. You're not allowed to look like him.