Dating - is it possible?

Dating seems almost impossible for me, everything about it scares me to death.

I see a lot of people making it seem so easy, holding hands and hugging and going out and I can't see myself doing any of that.

"Luckily" but not really because I am a girl I have had a lot of guys that have asked me out, I have rejected a lot of them mainly because I do have 'high standards' .... I just can't be with guys I don't really like, it makes me incredibly miserable... and It also makes me feel incredibly bad when I reject someone, it is extremely awkward and sadly I had to do that several times. I know that the guys that approach me don't really know who I really am so I wonder what exactly is it about me that they like when they don't have a clue of who I am? Of course I feel that they would end up regretting being with me after some time. In fact, I was lucky to have the guys that I liked falling for me, of course they gave the first big step and confessed to me... sadly they had to give the second, third, forth step as well and so on... My fear with the other guys actually turned real with my boyfriends, they got tired of me and my odd behavior, the needed someone who would tell them that they love them, someone who will call them and asked them to go out, someone who will hug them and kiss them and give them cards and have initiative... but I couldn't express my love very well... I was actually happy just by chatting with them on internet (which was the only way I could talk normally with them) and sitting right next to them even If I didn't say much... I loved them so much I could barely look into their eyes and hardly say a word because of the embarrassment... and of course they dumped me, it was a boring relationship that didn't even look as a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship in first place, one of them told me... "We look as if we were acquaintances that kiss! " we didn't even look like friends... not to mention a couple.

I fear this...
1. That the person that I like doesn't like me for who I really am. - When they say they like me, I know they like the person they think I am and I fear a lot that if they found out who I am they will dislike me because I am not what they expected and because I hide my true self I became extremely boring and they get tired of me and dump me. So my greatest fear becomes true the only difference is that I was not exposed.

2. That I am not girlfriend material. - going out scares me, I don't hug or kiss anyone or have any kind of physical contact not even with friends (just family) or at least I don't have the initiative to do any of that, it scares me. I can't express my feelings very well... tell someone that I like them and how important they are to me... and I know it includes knowing my partners friends and family... and when you go out to a restaurant of to the movies or something it involves both people which makes me nervous and talking which I barely do.

3. That things go too fast - I am extremely slow when it comes to relationships, I need a lot of time and very little steps, I need to assimilate and get used, usually guys don't have that patience when it comes to that, and worst thing of all they don't understand why I need it. It takes time to open up and also to trust.

My boyfriends were normal people, social people... I think I liked that about them, that they could come and talk to me freely. But liking them is something completely different to trusting them... I couldn't do it.

I have never been with someone who is as shy as I am, I guess it would be hard to approach another person who is exactly like me, but the nice thing about that would be that maybe that person would take the relationship as slow as we need it... I know I can be open with others but I really need a whole lot of time and trust. I would love to find a guy who would understand why I act the way I do and do not criticize me or ask me questions or put pressure on me, someone to trust and be myself with. I guess if I liked a shy person it would be nice to just sit with that person and be happy just because that person is there because he cares about me and likes me, we wouldn't need to force ourselves to talk and we wouldn't feel pressure because we would know the other person is the same as you, it would be someone you can be unskilled with at dating.

Now days I really like a guy... who I don't really know whether he is shy or not but I do know that he also has social problems, he doesn't talk much either or has a lot of interaction with anyone, he is serious and reserved... It is the first time I have liked someone who seems to be like me, and I guess that is the exact reason, I am scared to find another guy that would reject me because I am like this... I feel like he won't judge me or ask me for impossibles, that he might be bad at relationships as well and maybe we can work together to make it work... but its pure imagination so far from my part...~ I might be a girl and might have a lot of guys wanting to go out with me but it doesn't mean much when the guy you actually like doesn't really know that you exist, so I am supposed to be lucky for being a girl and having guys making that hard first step for me instead but right now I might be in the position in which I will have to give the first step because a guy like that would never even think about dating me and even if he did I don't think he would ask... and I know I would regret it later If I don't do it...

I had a lot of guys after me when I was younger... and I just ran mostly. But as I have gotten older there are less and less and well, I have come to accept that I am just going to have to "settle" I mean, just have a guy because I need one. Getting old is not pretty, see my parents, and without kids or anyone to help... life is very tough.

From reading your post I really think I better get to work on that avoidant dating site, or excellent roomates, site... but I think male avoidants may need a lot of affection while female might need zilch... probably not a great combo.

I absolutely need a lot of affection. Or rather I want it. So far in in life I've gone without it. Without a lot of physical affection, I don't think a relationship would be worth it.

I think you're at the stage that I'm at right now, but I don't have avoidant personality, I have social anxiety. Close enough though, they have similarities...

I'd like to think that shy people are able to find someone to date, I'm currently trying to find someone, but I'm scared to death that if we end up meeting, they are going to hate me and it's going to be a disaster. I long for that closeness so much, yet I'm scared of it...the loneliness is almost unbearable some days, so I completely understand that. As for my standards, I wouldn't say they are extremely high. All I want is someone with a sense of humor, things in common with me so that we can hold a decent conversation (or try to when I become more comfortable...) and understanding...not too much more than that. If I were to date someone that's shy like me, I would try to make myself say something, even if I feel humiliated/embarrassed. Sometimes, the quiet between words makes me nervous and I end up talking just to fill that.

The loneliness has gotten worse as I've gotten older. Part of it may be that as school and church have lost their place in my life I really need something solid to hold onto.

I'm trying to figure out what the real issue about my high standards is. I recently talked to someone who is basically self loathing who nevertheless has very high standards in women, and feels that is one reason he will always be alone. Am I shallow? Is it a defense mechanism against the possibility of a relationship, to set an unachievable goal? Is it an attempt to boost self esteem, that I have these standards and feel I deserve a woman like this, and I could take pride in myself if I did have such a relationship? I don't know.

Listener wrote:The loneliness has gotten worse as I've gotten older. Part of it may be that as school and church have lost their place in my life I really need something solid to hold onto.

I'm trying to figure out what the real issue about my high standards is. I recently talked to someone who is basically self loathing who nevertheless has very high standards in women, and feels that is one reason he will always be alone. Am I shallow? Is it a defense mechanism against the possibility of a relationship, to set an unachievable goal? Is it an attempt to boost self esteem, that I have these standards and feel I deserve a woman like this, and I could take pride in myself if I did have such a relationship? I don't know.

well you have to think about this objectively

do you think your standards are based on something you can appreciate or something that seems to be an obstacle (unrealistic expectations)

but I do think your question about 'unachievable goal' is a very valid question, and one that made me think that maybe my fears and expectations are nothing but a defense mechanism to even TRY......

one can only hope that the answer will be clear..... but.......

Personally I feel that my standards are reasonable but I'm sure a lot would disagree.
- We must have mutual physical attraction.
- Must have common interests
- Great conversational chemistry
- Really enjoy her company

There is a very good chance that I will remain a bachelor but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. I am solitary right now and quite happy with this solitude. I have concerns about the future (career and financial-related) but overall my life in the present is quite good. I like my solitary hobbies. Surfing the internet, playing videogames, watching tv shows and movies, reading, listening to music, etc. I hate parties. I hate clubs. I'm not an outdoorsman. I hate feeling obligated to deal with people I don't want to deal with (comes with the territory when you are out there more). I like to live a simple, non-dramatic life. Yeah there are times where I'll dwell on this and other social topics ("I have no life, I'm such a loser.") but these thoughts are centered on caring what other people think of me rather than about what I want out of life.

I'm open to dating if dating is going to be an enjoyable fun experience for me. But I look around and see that it is a crappy, tedious, unfun experience for people. Even if I consider narrowing my focus and go for only the geeky girls (where I'd have a higher chance of success), it's still not something I'm comfortable with. If god forbid I talk to a *****, it's going to leave a very bad taste in my mouth, make me feel like crap (I already know that society sees us as losers. I don't like it when people rub it in) and then I'll feel like it's a waste of time. I don't like exposing myself to pain.

Heck even if I read threads like this I can get depressed (because I hate it when I'm reminded that we are looked down on by society. It's not about romantic rejection for me. But rather I am rejected because I am seen as a social misfit, a loser. And that's what I dislike, being looked down upon by society. It's about being angry at the oppressive winners vs. losers dog-eat-dog mentality that society operates under. It makes me feel like a bad person. A failure and I blame myself, my personality, for being a failure. I was bullied a lot as a child and teenager. To the point where I didn't want to hang around with people and to be honest, I don't even think I like the human race very much either because it seems like only a small subset of the population doesn't look down on us. This is why my core personality is the way it is today. Why I'm an introvert. Why I seclude myself. Why I distance myself from people. Why I don't even feel a whole lot of desire to socially interact with people. There's a part of me that wishes ill on every single person that looks down on people like us. That wishes that they'd get their just desserts one day) and then I have to go back to my solitary hobbies to cheer myself up. In some ways I'm a schizoid but I tend to be very sensitive to criticism (particularly personal attacks). Personally I think human nature is disgusting. I hate the ignorance of the world. I hate when people put down other people to prop themselves up.

It's also dissapointing to hear that apparently avoidant girls don't like to be touched. There goes that option. lol. If I can't be physically affectionate with a girl, what's the point of having a girlfriend? Heck why would a girl like that want a boyfriend in the first place?

All of your standards sound reasonable techaddict, but they can be interpreted in different ways.

What is the threshold for attraction? Not unattractive? Cute? Hot? Stunningly beautiful?
How many common interests, and how similar must your level of interest be?

I'm not constantly depressed because of my solitude, but I certainly couldn't say I'm quite happy. My hopes for a career often seems just as hopeless and those for a relationship.

I think the many poor relationships and dating experiences I see have turned me away from dating from well. I know there are good relationships, but often they seem to be an exception.

techaddict wrote:It's also dissapointing to hear that apparently avoidant girls don't like to be touched. There goes that option. lol. If I can't be physically affectionate with a girl, what's the point of having a girlfriend? Heck why would a girl like that want a boyfriend in the first place?

Well I hope I didn't stay that or imply that. It is just that like any avoidant I will have serious trust issues. Obviously if I feel comfortable, well, things could be different. The thing is that most advoidant women don't meet other avoidant men and so... we are expected to put out within like 2 dates like the majority of the foolish people in this world. When Avoidant women want time and reasonable caution, well that is the end of that. Same idea... why would I stay with you when I can go elsewhere. I have a female friend and we have been friends for like 4 years -- just this week I went to her house. With anyone trust is earned slowly.

I do actually think that your standards are too high. Mutual physical attraction. Um maybe it is me or is that rare? It is for me. Oh yeh physical attraction ... but mutual? Ok that takes out 50% of the population. Common interests aren't too hard but then again, how many women like video games? Ok you have eliminated 60% of the population. Great conversational chemistry... huh? I don't find conversation with most people I know... never mind great conversational chemistry... Ok you have eliminated another 20%, really enjoy her company... yeh for how long? Do you know any couples who were all lovely lovey only for one or both to get sick of the other one?

See I think the real smart move is going the other way.. finding someone who's looks you think are decent (or can be worked with); speaks well enough to keep you from pulling your eyes out; shares the common interests you have in like movies (so you don't have to talk too much); and you just enjoy the company. Why? Well simple first, these things aren't likely to burn out. They are likely to improve, instead of getting worse at time goes on. You don't have to worry as much about that great person being lured away by someone better...

But I do agree with you.. if you are young and male there is little point to a relationship unless for sex / affection. But someday, when you are older, you may change your mind.

SaraShaw why do you say there is little point to a relationship if you are young and male? Do you consider sex or affection to not be important? My desire for affection has only increased as I've gotten older. That's not the only thing I want out of a relationship, but physical affection is a must.

I know in the long run I will be well served by trying to look past surface level appearance. With the girls I'm looking at on the dating sites, while I'm definitely interested in their appearance, I won't consider contacting them unless I think we will be in general agreement morally and philosophically.