Pursuing a relationship with a AvPD lady?

PQ your ideas on speaking with her are excellent, and I'm definitely going to have a chance to use them. Thanks so much.

The lady in question emailed me yesterday, said she sent the document partially as an apology and partially as a user manual. She's having a bit of a crisis I can help with, and of course she feels horrible for disappearing until a crisis forced her to take action.

I'm sure this will be a unique relationship. I may follow-up when/if things progress. If they progress very much I'm sure I'll be checking in here for advice and insight.

Thanks!

PQ your ideas on speaking with her are excellent, and I'm definitely going to have a chance to use them. Thanks so much.

The lady in question emailed me yesterday, said she sent the document partially as an apology and partially as a user manual. She's having a bit of a crisis I can help with, and of course she feels horrible for disappearing until a crisis forced her to take action.

I'm sure this will be a unique relationship. I may follow-up when/if things progress. If they progress very much I'm sure I'll be checking in here for advice and insight.

Thanks!

Like I said, I myself am an avoidant. Of course, I am the master at knowing what I want to hear.

Another thing to watch for is subtle changes in how she talks, how much she talks, mannerisms, etc. Being avoidant, its unlikely she will tell you if you make her sad/angry. And she will get hurt easily.

Just be careful what you say, and be reassuring and supportive, and slowly earn her trust. And its quite possible you will never completely earn her trust. She will always be on guard for small signs of rejection, real or otherwise.

PQ wrote:Like I said, I myself am an avoidant. Of course, I am the master at knowing what I want to hear.

I know what´s a non-anxious avoidant? But, how do you get it? I want to mean. Did you get to eliminate anxiety or ...? I don´t know. Can you explain to me a bit more about it. One of my main fears is anxiety.

I guess if find a way to avoid all social interaction you could be free of anxiety. When things are going well for me and I'm in my routine I don't have much anxiety.

CSRevenant wrote:Another thing to watch for is subtle changes in how she talks, how much she talks, mannerisms, etc. Being avoidant, its unlikely she will tell you if you make her sad/angry. And she will get hurt easily.

Just be careful what you say, and be reassuring and supportive, and slowly earn her trust. And its quite possible you will never completely earn her trust. She will always be on guard for small signs of rejection, real or otherwise.

I guess that's a good idea. I wonder if you could reassure her that you will not think she's stupid or annoying you might get her to tell you when she's feeling rejected.

Parador wrote:I wonder if you could reassure her that you will not think she's stupid or annoying you might get her to tell you when she's feeling rejected.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Parador. (rad1ant, I wrote that last post in a rush and I didn't realize that you might want to be more than friends with this woman. Sorry!)

Like CSRevenant says, I don't think it's impossible to get an avoidant to trust you. Right now I have one person I can trust enough to be honest with. He has let me know that it's okay to disagree with him, and so far that's been true. I have tried to tell him repeatedly that once he knows me better, he won't want to be around me. He has told me repeatedly that he can't imagine how that would happen. I want to believe him, so I've decided to act like I believe him. So far, so good.

My advice is not to try to read an avoidant's mind. Personally, I hate that. It makes me feel like an experiment instead of a person. I appreciate it when people make me feel like there's nothing I can do that will disappoint them (even if I fail to believe them). An "unconditional positive regard" sort of thing helps a lot (http://counsellingresource.com/types/person-centred/). The first place I look for this is in how they talk about and relate to other people. Are they understanding, mostly non-judgmental, kind? These are some of my own criteria. YMMV.

I don't think anyone should have to walk on eggshells around an avoidant, either. That's unfair to you. My friend doesn't walk on eggshells around me, and that's fine because I know where I stand with him. Thus if he says something that bothers me, I'm no longer terrified to discuss it with him. It usually turns out that I was being paranoid. Occasionally, it turns out he was being insensitive. I might have mentioned AvPD to him, but we've never discussed it in detail. The bottom line is I'm over-sensitive, unaccomplished, hermity, and existentially depressed half the time and he's okay with that.

I think you should act normal. Don't change your behavior drastically to accommodate what you think an avoidant might want. The key is letting her know in your words and actions that you accept her and you like her, no matter what she's going through. The very fact that you're posting here is proof that you're good for each other.

Sometimes having a relationship with an avoidant is like when the fox asked the little prince to tame him:
http://www.angelfire.com/hi/littleprinc ... ter21.html

"My life is very monotonous," the fox said. "I hunt chickens; men hunt me. All the chickens are just alike, and all the men are just alike. And, in consequence, I am a little bored. But if you tame me, it will be as if the sun came to shine on my life. I shall know the sound of a step that will be different from all the others. Other steps send me hurrying back underneath the ground. Yours will call me, like music, out of my burrow. And then look: you see the grain-fields down yonder? I do not eat bread. Wheat is of no use to me. The wheat fields have nothing to say to me. And that is sad. But you have hair that is the color of gold. Think how wonderful that will be when you have tamed me! The grain, which is also golden, will bring me back the thought of you. And I shall love to listen to the wind in the wheat . . ."

"What must I do, to tame you?" asked the little prince.

"You must be very patient," replied the fox. "First you will sit down at a little distance from me--like that--in the grass. I shall look at you out of the corner of my eye, and you will say nothing. Words are the source of misunderstandings. But you will sit a little closer to me, every day . . ."

ShadowTerra wrote:Like CSRevenant says, I don't think it's impossible to get an avoidant to trust you. Right now I have one person I can trust enough to be honest with. He has let me know that it's okay to disagree with him, and so far that's been true. I have tried to tell him repeatedly that once he knows me better, he won't want to be around me. He has told me repeatedly that he can't imagine how that would happen. I want to believe him, so I've decided to act like I believe him. So far, so good.

My advice is not to try to read an avoidant's mind. Personally, I hate that. It makes me feel like an experiment instead of a person. I appreciate it when people make me feel like there's nothing I can do that will disappoint them (even if I fail to believe them). An "unconditional positive regard" sort of thing helps a lot (http://counsellingresource.com/types/person-centred/). The first place I look for this is in how they talk about and relate to other people. Are they understanding, mostly non-judgmental, kind? These are some of my own criteria. YMMV.

I don't think anyone should have to walk on eggshells around an avoidant, either.

This gets to the heart of the matter. I think she's beginning to trust me a bit so it appears there's a possibility of building something here. Of course I'm going to treat her with as much sensitivity, respect, and honesty as I can muster but I don't want to treat her like some sort of curious alien species. Her condition doesn't define her, it's only one aspect of her personality. Yeah, she's avoidant and that's going to pose challenges. But she's also intelligent, well-read, articulate, funny, and a whole bunch of other things, all wrapped in a decidedly female package. Based on what I'm reading here, this could definitely be worth the time and energy involved.

A socially nonanxious avoidant is mostly a strong mix of AvPD + BPD traits -- but no real difficulty looking people in the eye. I do have some social phobia, but not nearly enough to be a bother. Not usually, anyhow. You would think that I was normal.

twistermind wrote:

Cirvante wrote: these guys are sensitive as hell.

Yeah, we are!

Though it can be quite entertaining sometimes. But I still prefer the kind of people who get furious over the ones that sulk. It's like pouring either fuel or water on a fire.