AvPD vs NPD

Parador wrote:These individuals, like others with narcissistic personality disorder, have a grandiose, unrealistic sense of their abilities, achievements and worth, and they often feel disdain for others whom they perceive as less exceptional. They also have vulnerable self-esteems and are very sensitive to criticism. However, these individuals don't seek admiration or overtly express their sense of superiority.

Reborn Phoenix wrote:

sfguy75x wrote:Just wondering, what's the difference between AvPD and the shyer "subtypes" of NPD? (NPD has several subtypes with similar internal thought processes, but extremely different outward behavior)

In both cases, there's a preoccupation with self, thinking you're more important that you really are, worrying about what people think of you, when the true answer is probably just "not very often".
Narcissists also feel worthless, the narcissistic tendencies are an attempt to forget and hide that fact.
Some narcissistic people appear extremely extroverted and meet and charm people easily. However the shyer subtypes also feel awkward and avoidant of social situations where the fragile ego might be rejected.

Could an AvPD to have narcissistic fantasies about what they would do if they weren't afraid? Is it possible for a person to be sort of a AvPD/NPD hybrid? By that I mean they are often avoidant, but sometimes in a social situation where they are comfortable or when they know people already like them, they could become "activated" in a sense and start acting very outgoing and narcissistic? Can an AvPD have simultaneous contradictory thoughts of worthlessness and grandeur especially in different realms of life (for example, avoidant of personal relationships, but very outgoing and confident in business relationships)?

Anyway, just wondering because there seems like a lot of potential overlap between AvPD and a shy NPD and I'd like to ferret out the differences. There have been some times in my life where I've felt and acted like the descriptions I've read of AvPD, and other times in my life where I acted more like a typical NPD. I think overall NPD is the better fit but I'd like to know more.

There is a subtype of NPD which is called compensatory NPD. It's like a mixture of AvPD and NPD. Do a google search on it. It's pretty interesting.

Parador wrote:It just doesn't seem like true NPD to me. I always thought the root of NPD was the thinking that you are really important

sfguy75x wrote:That's wrong. The NPD very deep down thinks he is a nothing. He is not consciously aware of that because it is buried, but the unconscious fear of being nothing drives everything he does. The conscious process of feeling all-important is a defense mechanism to hide the shame he feels being himself. That's why the narcissist is continuously looking for reassurance that other people admire and think he's the greatest. Without that constant supply of attention, the underlying worthlessness starts to shine through a little bit and he'll do anything to avoid that.

In a very painful process called "decompensation" some narcissist feel their masks stripped away and can actually become aware of their feeling of worthlessness. The emotional pain causes such a cold icy depression that the symptoms resemble PTSD with all kinds of psychotic features like flashbacks, nightmares, and hallucinations.

Parador wrote:Are you sure that is true of all narcs?

sfguy75x wrote:

Parador wrote:These individuals, like others with narcissistic personality disorder, have a grandiose, unrealistic sense of their abilities, achievements and worth, and they often feel disdain for others whom they perceive as less exceptional. They also have vulnerable self-esteems and are very sensitive to criticism. However, these individuals don't seek admiration or overtly express their sense of superiority.

That's me. I only express my superiority in situations where I obviously am superior, like if I can consistently outperform somebody at a task, and I explicitly seek admiration only on rare occasions, preferring to let it come to me passively for my achievements.
It's why I'm competitively driven to prove myself constantly.
If I'm in a situation where I don't have an edge of some sort, I act a lot more like an AvPD, like in social settings where I don't especially know anyone, or generally in public around strangers.

I think I mostly come across to people as a shy smart computer geek, rather than an egocentric narcissist.

Parador wrote:I do not believe Sam Vaknin knows everything. I looked it up and see his Ph.D is in philosophy. All he really knows is that he exists then.