Is there hope?

Thanks, Love Quiet. I understand what you are saying. I am seeing now that I sometimes come accross too strong when I don't mean to at all.

I just want to convey to him that I am accepting. I wouldn't have stayed around so long if I were not!

I appreciate all of your thoughts so much! Please keep posting!

Caring

I don't have any advice for you. It's a tricky one all right. But I will share my own experiences being on your boyfriend's side a few times. After cutting off relationships I *have* been lured back by frequent overtures of reconciliation. It hasn't happened often because other people have not been willing to put in that kind of effort for someone who treated them so shabbily. But in the few cases it has happened I've been very very grateful to the other person for making the effort.

The overtures were low pressure and of the "let's be friends" variety. As in: "Just because we're not seeing each other romantically, isn't it possible we could still be friends? I miss your company and I wish we could hang out again sometimes." I would not like to be reminded of my behavior by a bunch of apologies, hearing how they were sorry they were clingy, or sorry for whatever things they might have done wrong. That gets needy and clingy again. "The past is the past, let's just start fresh and make sure we stay in each other's lives."

And when I rebuffed their efforts they didn't give up. I didn't see that as being needy or desperate. They didn't act all disappointed and hurt when I said no--who needs that? They just tried again later.

I can't say just being friends will turn into a romantic relationship again, unfortunately. But having him back in your life might be a start. Also, your needs are very real too. You need to feel secure in a relationship, there's nothing needy or clingy about that. The other person has obligations to communicate with you, to let you know their feelings, to give you self confidence and support you! Not only is it not healthy for you to ignore this but insisting on it is being assertive. And assertive is not the same as being clingy and whiny and needy. He will see the difference. I know I would.

Thanks, Ratty.

I actually asked (about a month ago) to "be friends" and that was met with a nice decline. I emailed back that it made me sad, because he had meant so much to me and was still very important to me. I have not contacted him again since then. I am so glad you say that when you rebuffed their efforts and they kept trying you didn't see that as needy! Wow! That makes me feel better.

I see your point about not wanting to hear the apologies, and agree. But how can I say that I see very clearly what I did wrong and am sorry. I do believe that my refusal to let him be around my parents must have made him feel rejected. He continuously asked this and I repeatedly said No. I think that is what led to the decline and the breakup. I don't want to point that out, per se, but want him to know that I have really done a LOT of soul searching and see where I really messed things up for us. There are other instances too, but the parents is the only one that came up over and over.

The ironic thing is my needs were being met. Yes, I would have liked more time with him, but I also now see that was my insecurity about what a boyfriend "should" be. I have a lot of issues with needing constant reassurance. I realize now that when he says one thing or does one thing that tells me how he feels, I should believe him. I shouldn't require him to say it 5 times before I believe it.

This time away from him has made me realize a lot of my issues, but also realize I really love this man deeply.

Ratty, your feelings and experience help me a lot. Just the fact that you have been on the other side and appreciated the effort means a lot to me!

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

Caring

I like Skogs advice, and ill use his disclaimer too.

But im not convinced acceptance is the key word, I dont think I would want to be in a relationship in which I am accepted as a person with so much shortcomings, I would like to be in a balanced relationships with someone who makes me feel validated, not just accepted.

I have some AvPD traits but I dont consider myself one at this moment. I wouldnt stay with someone who wants to treat me as someone special, who requires special consideration, the only relationship i am looking for is one which helps me overcome my AvPD traits, which makes me feel 95% functional like most people, i wouldnt last long if my GF was telling me all the time that 'i am ok the way I am', my personality is a trap i am trying to break away from, if my GF is not on the same track and stands on my way out of that place, I wouldnt stay with her.

now, here is the real deal... I wouldnt care what she says, unfortunately, i would look, and look, and monitor, and scrutinize her subconcious until i find the answer. I would want to know what her subconcious thinks, not what she says because talk is fluff and is meaningless, and its not just acts either, its really about finding out how her deep core visualizes me, because thats what i feed on, and if it that visualization is not good, im gonna feel it, thats a curse because nobody is 100% perfect and we all, deep down, visualize others with good and bad qualities.

I could be really just looking until I find anything, anything that would make me feel rejected before she even realizes it, but it doesnt change much, because women cant really change how they feel about me at will (the good and the bad). All they can do is not ignore it. The point is, i guess, maybe its better is my GF would aodre me, but also tell me what she hates about me but still is not enough to love me any less, that would maybe make me stop looking so hard for anything that may possible be a sign that the relationsip im in is going to end someday, that is not going to last forever, so i may as well just let it go if the opportunity presents iteslf.

Advice *if he feelst to be something like me*: give him real love, not blind-overcompensating-the-fact-that-im-special-and-need-to-be-saved kind of ove.

Mr. Brightside,

Thanks! Since the break up I have realized that my boyfriend really did scrutinize my actions. Here is the sad part. I have been "saying all the right things", but not showing him with actions that I really do love him. That is what has me so sad, sorry, embarrassed, etc. I think I was uncertain if I really loved him deeply. I knew I loved him, wanted to be with him, but didn't really know if I was ready to really commit to a serious relationship. Ironic thing is, that as hard as this break up has been, it has made me see that I really do love him. I have realized during this time apart that I don't just miss the boyfriend, I REALLY love this man.

I would never say. "I love you because you have AVP traits." I want him to know that I love him unconditionally with any quirks he may have, but that I want to grow emotionally with him. Good grief! I have a LOT of emotional issues, baggage, etc. It's just not "labeled." We all have emotional baggage from past hurts! I think everyone on this planet wants to be loved unconditionally, no matter what their story is.


On the scrutinizing subject. I feel like my boyfriend does have a gift for "sensing" things, but with that comes the fact that he is wrong sometimes. I posted this before to Skog that he thinks he is right, but sometimes he is wrong, when it comes to my feelings. It is at those times that I have a hard time convincing him he is wrong, and I'm not sure he believes me. I am honest to a fault, and I am not sure he believes me. I believe that he thinks I don't think he is "good enough" which could not be further from the truth. This is a man of character, honor and high morals. I have done some real soul searching during this time away from him. When I really thought about what I wanted out of life, the kind of life I want to lead and the kind of people I want in my life, it all came down to wanting him. He has so many attributes, but the main ones are that his values and morals match mine and that is the most important thing!

Here is the email I was going to send tomorrow.....I would love any and all feedback, opinions, suggestions any of you have.



Dear ********

Happy Father's Day!

I hope all ********'s graduation events went well and you enjoyed it for the milestone that it is, even though I know it's bittersweet.

********, I have been doing a lot of thinking and realize that I made a lot of mistakes that I was not even aware of until recently. You made me happy. You made me feel special and cared for and I was proud to be with you.

The bottom line is that I care a great deal about you and I miss you.

Can we try again?

Caring


Thanks to anyone that reads this!

Mr. Brightside, I just reread your post and when you say,

"I wouldnt care what she says, unfortunately, i would look, and look, and monitor, and scrutinize her subconcious until i find the answer. I would want to know what her subconcious thinks, not what she says because talk is fluff and is meaningless, and its not just acts either, its really about finding out how her deep core visualizes me, because thats what i feed on, and if it that visualization is not good, im gonna feel it...."

I can completely see my ex doing this, and that is great, IF he gives me the chance. But how do I get him to GIVE me the chance to prove it to him? I have already screwed that up and need another chance, because I feel differently now.

Thanks!

Well, assuming he has not been dissapointed by not finding his ideal version of himself inside your subconcious, you just need a plan like everyone else. But if he already made up his mind about what he suspects you think of him deep down, well.. its going to be rough, it would take a lot to break that defense down.

"can we try again?" is to confrontational in my opinion, dont put him in a spot where he feels he has to make an important decision. I would advice you try a more indirect approach, like telling him how you want him in your life regardless of ranks, labels, or any strict relationship status.

Once you are 'in' the relationship again, whatever form that is, you should find a way to dismantle his self imposed visualization that he is not good enough for you, which would be the real challenge, because you cant do it conciously, it has to be real.

Ok, it feels like im writing a movie script now.. hah. Just read it as that, i am the last person to be giving out relationship advice, and i know i am being over theorizing this way too much. Bottom line: just tell your subconcious to treat his subconcious as equals, or it wont work, or better yet, tell your subconcious his subconcious IS equal, and it will become equally functional.

Really, dont make much of my post, its just my angle, and we are entirely different people. Good luck.

Thank you, Mr.Brightside.

I understand what you are saying, and hope that if I get the chance to be with him again, I can convey that I really do see him as "good enough." I always did! In most ways, better! It was his perception from my refusal to spend time with parents, etc....

Anyway. I see your point about "Can we try again" as being too confrontational, but then I think about Skog saying that he wants someone to ASK him if he wants to go out with the group instead of stating that the group is going out.

A month ago I told him how much I missed him and basically asked if we could be friends....thinking that was less threatening than a relationship, but he declined! That's when I said that made me sad because he had meant so much to me and was still very important to me. Maybe just say I want him in my life? Could we rebuild our relationship? (Probably the same thing as Can we try again.)
I don't know how else to word it, but also know the wording is very important in this email.


"Really, dont make much of my post, its just my angle, and we are entirely different people. Good luck." I DO make a lot of your post because you are helping me understand!

Thank you,

Caring

OKAY, ANYONE? WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS EMAIL?



*******,

I hope ******'s graduation events went well and you enjoyed it for the milestone that it is, even though I know it's bittersweet.

******, I have been doing a lot of thinking and realize that I have done a LOT of things wrong, stemming from my issues that I was not even aware of. The bottom line is that you made me happy. You made me feel special and cared for and I was proud to be with you. Our relationship is very important to me and you have been an important part and wonderful addition to my life.

When I really thought about what I want out of life, the kind of life I want to lead and the kind of people I want in my life, it all came down to the fact that I care a great deal about you and want you in my life. I would like the opportunity to get together again.


Caring

Okay, guys, I am back!

First off, I want to thank you for your wonderful and much appreciated posts. It helped me so much to better understand my ex and I actually got up the nerve to send him an email Monday night, in which I ended it with, ".....it all comes down to the fact that I care a great deal about you and want you in my life. I would like the opportunity to get together again."

He responded back, "Me too. Let's talk sometime soon."

I was thrilled beyond belief, and sent back "Okay! I would love that." thinking that would put the ball in his court. After all, I had surprised him and thought he may need time to digest this.

I emailed him today asking if I could come over for a drink......Bold, but I wanted to get this out on the table. I was just going to reiterate that I made some mistakes, but I wanted to try again. No expectations, just let it evolve, so to speak.

Well, I got a response back tonight that he had driven down to his mother's home, that his father is near the end of life and he went down to be with his mother.

I emailed that I was so sorry and that if he needed anything I was here.

This breaks my heart. His dad has been in a nursing home since November and it has been really bad.

How can I support him, without going overboard? My natural tendency with any female friend would be to be there for her 24/7 and send encouraging emails daily. I gather that men do not want this kind of "female" support.

Do you guys have any advice?