Is there hope?

I believe my ex boyfriend is AVP. He cut all ties with me via an email 2 months ago. I have asked to see him and he said no. I believe now, (but didn't realize at the time) that my needy behavior, coming from my own insecurities was sending the message that he was not making me happy. I was insecure in his feelings for me, and kept questioning him. I also kept him somewhat at arms distance, in order to protect myself. This was not because I didn't trust him, but I think he saw it as me not trusting him, wanting him, etc.

I got plenty of mixed messages the entire year and a half that we dated, but I do believe that he loved/loves me. I think he got to the point that he was afraid to see me anymore because he thought I was unhappy in the relationship. I hate that I gave him that impression, because the only thing I wanted was to see him more because I do love him.

My question here is.....If he has made up his mind that this relationship is over, is there any hope of getting him to open up again to the idea of us trying again? He does NOT like to talk emotionally, and withdraws at the hint of it. He is also very stubborn.

I want to say t o him that I have been thinking a lot about this, realize I have made some mistakes, from my own insecurities, but the bottom line is I love him and want to try again. However, I think that "burst of emotion" might send him flying for the hills. Does anyone have any advice?

Caring

Dear Caring,
It's a tough one.
If you read the post a ways down the APD page on "Relationships" (a poll) you'll see how very infrequently APD end up having (let alone staying in) relationships.
And I don't mean to be negative, but as you read more about APD you'll probably see how difficult it is for a partner to get their emotional needs met in a relationship with one of us.

Unfortunately, since he broke it off, you're in a position of really needing to play "hard to get" ... except that he's pretty unlikely to come after you, having maybe been overwhelmed by your greater emotionality.

sorry.
—LQ

Thank you for replying, Love Quiet. I really appreciate it!

I have read a lot about this and I have seen all the advice AGAINST loving an AVP......but the problem is I love this man! I know he loves me. Yes, it hurts like crazy, but I can't help myself. I'm confused about your suggestion on playing "hard to get." I thought that might be the main point with an AVP, that they need the extra reassurance that they ARE loved. I guess it's a double edged sword?

I certainly don't want to make him upset, thinking I am too "needy" but I think we are good together and have a lot to offer each other.
This is a very dear and caring man. Unlike anyone I have ever known before. What I want to say is "I accept you, unconditionally, and you make me happy." but as someone wrote on here (I can't remember who it was), that we need to take baby steps in getting close and not go too fast. That going too fast made this particular poster shut down because it was too much, too fast.

I know your advice is probably right, but I can not turn my back on such a fine person that has so much to offer. I honestly believe that he would be happier with me than alone, but I can't convince him or change him. He has to do that himself. I guess I just want to know the best way to get him to open his mind to try at our relationship again.

I just think it is so sad that some of you seem to not want what could bring you so much joy. Please don't think that I am judging you or anyone in ANY way. I am trying desperately to understand this position. I want to do what's best for him. I don't want him to be a lonely old man, even if it's not with me! I want him to be able to open himself up to loving someone.

Thank you, Love Quiet for taking the time to help me.

Caring

I don't know much about relationships and so, but I do know that if a girl wants me she shouldn't play 'hard to get'. To me that 'game' sends out the message: 'I don't want you'... and why go after someone that doesn't want you.

Maybe you could write a letter (not a mail) in which you describe what you've said in your first posting in this topic. He still might not respond, but he knows then how you feel about him. I don't know if this is a too big step for him though.

That is my hesitation, Nadir27! That it may be too much for him!

I want to be very understanding of his feelings, but at the same time want to say, "Look, buddy! I love you!"

There is such a fine line. Where is the line?

How and in what way would you ever open your heart again?

This is so hard to understand, but I am willing to do anything. I love this man!

Caring

Caring wrote:I believe my ex boyfriend is AVP.

Maybe you're wrong about the boyfriend being AVP. If he were, regardless of the misgivings he may have had about your keeping him at arm's distance because of your own insecurities, he might have been relieved to have had you show your interest by pursuing him after he backed away. It may instead be that he's not AVP, but he just couldn't deal with your insecurities.

The other advice you got against playing hard to get sounds right to me. He's not pursuing you now, so what good would playing hard to get do? You also don't want to come across as harassing him. The advice about a letter sounded pretty good. You should be prepared to move on if he's really not interested. Tell him you care about him, that you regret having kept him at a distance because of your own insecurities, and that you would like the opportunity to get together again, and remind him of your email and telephone information, but then let it be his turn to reply or not. If he doesn't, then leave him alone.

Skog,
Thank you so much for your reply and advice!

I do not know for a fact that he is AVP..but I do have strong feelings that he is. When I say I kept him at an arm's distance, I do think this hurt him, in that he kept asking for things like to get together with my parents and I kept saying No. This particular problem was mine, in that I am having a great deal of difficulty with my mother at this time, but I think he perceived it as me not wanting him to be with them. (His perception would be that I did not think he was good enough!) Which is NOT true! The truth is, and I did try to explain this, my mother is aging and becoming very critical of EVERYONE. Even with my children, whom she adores. It's embarrassing and didn't want him to see this. I am sure he felt that I didn't think want him to be with him. I now know, (as I look back over things) that each time after he asked (and I turned him down) that he pulled away. I know now (not before the break up) that this was a rejection in his eyes. Of course I don't feel like I can say "Oh, I am so sorry I did not let you be around my parents."

I do think your idea about just writing him is good. I think I will say what I posted, that I made a lot of mistakes and am sorry, but would like to try again. I just need to prepare myself for him closing the door. It will hurt like hell, but I guess at this point I have nothing to lose. I guess my question would be, "What, if anything would make you really believe that someone really loved you, for who you were?" I want to let him know that I recognize his issues, and stilll love him, quirks and all!

Caring wrote: I guess my question would be, "What, if anything would make you really believe that someone really loved you, for who you were?"

Well, I still don’t know that he is an avoidant. I am only self-diagnosed myself, and since I’m not a health care professional, I’m not qualified. So, there’s my disclaimer.

If I assume your friend is like me, here is what I would like to hear. I want to hear acceptance. I want any fear I might have of rejection being eliminated.

When people talk to me, I am constantly monitoring for sincerity. I am looking for unambiguous statements of inclusion, acceptance, and friendship. Do they say “there are cookies on my desk” (which implies an offer to eat a cookie, but is really just a declarative sentence and not an invitation) or do the say “please have a cookie”? Do they say “some of us are getting together for a drink after work” (again an implied invitation, but really just another declarative sentence), or do they say “come with us for a drink after work”?

I don’t think you should put any label on your friend in your letter. Don’t say “I know you’re AVP, but I like you anyway.” He may not be an avoidant; he may be one, but have no familiarity with the term, nor have given any thought to whether he has a problem with a name; you may just embarrass him; he may think you are the one with the problem and unload on you in a negative way that will only hurt your chances for a continued relationship.

I think you should reassure him that you care about him. Giving some explanation for why you kept him at a distance seems reasonable. Having thought some more about what I said before, I want to suggest a slight change from suggesting you just wait and see if he responds. Perhaps your message should end with a statement that you are going to call or email him in a few days, or a week, and ask if he would be willing to get together for [coffee, lunch, a drink, something less than a date that 2 friends might do] and talk about this some more. That gives you a little more control instead of waiting for an indeterminate period of time. You should still be prepared to accept a “no” from him, or no response, and accept that and leave him alone afterwards.

You might also wait a little before sending your letter and see if anyone else posting here has a better suggestion for what you might say. I could be wrong. Don’t forget to come back and tell us what happens. Others of us here can benefit from your experience. Good luck.

Good grief, Skog, you have no idea how much your response means to me! I have been struggling with this for so long. You will never know how much your thoughts and ideas mean to me! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I think you are right when you say, "I want to hear acceptance. I want any fear I might have of rejection being eliminated."

Of course, Don't we all? But, Lord, I wish I had known before the break up what I know now! When you say you are "constantly monitoring for sincerity. I am looking for unambiguous statements of inclusion, acceptance, and friendship." I wonder if you are actually my ex posting here, talking to me. Sometimes he perceives me as not being completely honest, when I really am. Your explanation of the cookies on the desk is so helpful to me. That really helps me more than anything he has said. There have been so many times that our communication is so off, it's sad. When he does explain things like that, a light bulb goes off and I think ,"Of course, how could I not have seen that?" It's like our brains are wired so differently. Amazing, but really sad. If he points it out, I can see it but before he does, I would have no earthly idea! It just makes me sad that he does not always point it out, and we go down the path of more misunderstandings.

And do not worry! I would NEVER put a label on him! I have no idea if he knows this or not and it is certainly not my place to say anything. I am not in anyway trying to diagnose him with anything. I am just trying desperately to understand someone I love very much.

I don't know about saying I will call him in a little while. You see, I don't need any "control" about this. I think he needs to have the control in the situation right now. I only want him to come back to me if HE wants to. I believe in my heart that he does still love me, but it has to be his decision, if that makes any sense. Yes, I adore the man. But I want him to be sure he loves me.

Skog, you are a blessing to me! Honestly! You have no idea how much your caring to respond means to me. This whole thing is consuming me. I love this man so much, but have no clue as to how to convince him of that. I think if he totally trusted that I truly loved him, he would relax and be able to accept that love. That is the whole problem. I don't now how to convince him that I really do love him. You said that you are constantly monitoring for sincerity. He is too, but I think he is confident that his feelings are correct when sometimes they are not. I have seen him question others when I do believe they are truthful. He has certainly questioned me at times when I was being truthful. That's the sad thing. I have always been truthful with him, and he questions me at times when there really is no need. Frustrating as hell, but worth it. This man is a gem!

Thank you again, and any more advice, insight or thoughts would be more than appreciated!

Caring

BTW,
after reading Nadir's comment, I realize that "hard to get" is not exactly what was feeling right.

It's more like: interested, supportive, accepting. But definitely *not* "pursuing" ... or "intensely emotional". ...because these last two present the threat of a critical or rejecting response when your (intimidatingly strong) needs for the relationship come out.

Anyway, good luck: and be ready to need to *learn* a lot -- and learn to adjust what might be your usual was of trying to get your needs met: Becoming intense and asking intensely are probably always going to freak him out.