what are the things you wish/hope for?

today i got bored with the schizoid forum and remembered that there are other forums on this website, and ended up here. then it kinda dawned on me that i'm sort of in a reverse situation as what i imagine an avoidant would be. anxiety issues and isolation, but with a different twist. and i might benefit from looking at things from another point of view

i'm realizing that, objectively speaking, i've achieved everything i used to wish for. but while it has given me confidence to "navigate life" when needed, i've never had so little motivation to do anything but sit in front of my computer. there's a lot of things i could do, but i just don't see the point. i used to see a point, back when everything that mattered to me was just fantasy projected into the future, but not anymore. by now everything that's possibly worth something in life just seems to demand way too much sustained effort to actually be worth it in reality

i'm 31 and living with my parents, not because i don't know how to live by myself (which i did for several years) or because i couldn't afford to move out, but simply because it feels like it would be a waste of money. and while i wish my parents weren't around, my wish to avoid stress and to work as little as necessary is stronger. it's not like i'll actually be needing more privacy than i already have anyway. i'd just be ruminating even more on the question "so what now?"

i still fantasize about "sharing my life with someone", but by now that fantasy just seems like it is to loneliness what masturbation is to sex drive: in practice i only want a partner to get rid of this incongruous urge and finally free up my mind to think of other things. i guess it's essentially what it's all about for pretty much everyone, but when you already see it like this from the start, it just feels like a silly and purposeless game

and... what else is there? i have no personal ambitions of recognition or "leaving my mark" in any way. on the contrary. i don't want people to know of my existence, because in the end it just means pressure to measure up to expectations. so i don't know what to wish or hope for. nothing realistic, at least. i just know that i'm probably going to go crazy again eventually if i keep living with my parents indefinitely without any kind of plan to get out of this limbo. but that's too vague for me to actually do something about it without feeling like i'm just wasting my energy and resources and making things worse in the long run

so my question (to myself, but asking you guys because, who knows, i might relate to someone else's answer, and so far i don't have any of my own) is: "what are the things you wish or hope for, to the point that you are or might be willing to push yourself to do things you fear and things you'd just rather not do otherwise?"

I want my parents to die already, then people would stop harassing me to see them. I also want to have the confidence to make more friends, and i want to stop worrying that I won't be able to function as an adult.
Ultimately I want to get the point where I am confident enough to have kids, and raise them to love themselves for who are, and not what others expect of them.

Unsocial Butterfly wrote:I want my parents to die already

make sure you don't go out of your way for that one wish though

Unsocial Butterfly wrote:Ultimately I want to get the point where I am confident enough to have kids, and raise them to love themselves for who are, and not what others expect of them.

ah yes, kids. i forget that's a big one for most people. which is funny because the two friends i'm in touch with regularly do have kids. i guess i'm just too used to it, like "that's them, and it doesn't apply to me"

in a weird way, thinking about kids kinda gives me hope. because i remember there was a time when i really wished i would have kids, which is most definitely not the case anymore. so maybe the same will happen with my wish for company eventually, and i'll just stop thinking about it without going through the trouble of actually finding a partner. that's kind of my biggest hope i guess...

Lol...that would mean that I would have to see them. My dad has a bad heart, and diabetes...he is basically a ticking time bomb. I don't want to hurt them... I just don't want to have to keep fighting with everyone to justify why I am not participating in the family dynamics.

One of the big things about having kids is that I will have to be emotionally strong enough to keep them away from the kids. My parents both believe the kids are born evil, and they believe in physical punishment. My mom bragged to me as a kid that she would pinch me when we were in public, because no would notice and report her.

Have you done therapy? Do you know when you became closed off?

anagram wrote:i still fantasize about "sharing my life with someone"

Only this, I think.

Or alternatively, I hope that somehow I will manage to survive without a job, alone and miserable, but at least I'll be able to survive and live for the sake of my "maladaptive daydreaming".

Both wishes seem unrealistic to me, but these are the only serious wishes I have.

I wouldn't say that I do anything to make them come true. I just don't consider them realistic enough.

anagram wrote: but by now that fantasy just seems like it is to loneliness what masturbation is to sex drive: in practice i only want a partner to get rid of this incongruous urge and finally free up my mind to think of other things. i guess it's essentially what it's all about for pretty much everyone, but when you already see it like this from the start, it just feels like a silly and purposeless game

I don't think that's true for me. This is the topic that I'm currently exploring in therapy (wishing for a strong bond with someone), and it's very complicated so far. And maybe in the long run it can be called an urge, but it comes up again and again, it's not like you can strike a good relationship and it's gone forever. It'll never be gone. So it's not exactly like masturbation and sex.

We may have differences, though.

Unsocial Butterfly wrote:Lol...that would mean that I would have to see them. My dad has a bad heart, and diabetes...he is basically a ticking time bomb.

sounds like luck might be on your side on that one then. fingers crossed

I just don't want to have to keep fighting with everyone to justify why I am not participating in the family dynamics.

i can fully sympathize with that. in my case i'm lucky that i'm eccentric enough that i was able to get my psychiatrist to diagnose me with asperger's, after a very bad phase a few years ago, largely caused by my family themselves. i still don't know if i do or do not believe i have asperger's, but what matters is that my parents do. it's more comfortable for them than the alternative (believing that i'm permanently damaged because of bad parenting)

My parents both believe the kids are born evil, and they believe in physical punishment. My mom bragged to me as a kid that she would pinch me when we were in public, because no would notice and report her.

your parents sound like tons of fun

Have you done therapy?

i did some therapy a few years back. it really didn't help me. i just kept going because "i should at least try", and it was covered by my health insurance. the best thing i can say about the guy is that "he was well-intentioned". but even if he were better at his job, i doubt it would have been of much use. psychologists are trained to normalize their patients, not to help them figure out what they actually want for themselves. they don't know what to do with patients who never wanted what they're selling to begin with

Do you know when you became closed off?

hm that's a good question but i don't know how to answer it. it's not like binary thing, or even a linear thing, so i don't know what to compare to. if one day i simply "found out i had a girlfriend", or something to that effect, i'm sure i would embrace it

that's essentially what happened with the one girlfriend i did have. one day she said something implying that "we were in a relationship", i asked her if that was what she meant, she said yes. big red flag right there, but it's not like i'm ever going to have a sane relationship anyway. i jumped right in. ironically though, she didn't. she remained stratospherically ambivalent until it eventually broke all semblance of fondness or even respect we had for each other

"ending up alone forever" is not a real concern of mine anymore. what does bother me about it is that it means i have no concrete motivation to get off my ass, and i know for sure that staying for too long in this situation i'm in right now is bad for my health

FragranceOfLilac wrote:And maybe in the long run it can be called an urge, but it comes up again and again, it's not like you can strike a good relationship and it's gone forever. It'll never be gone.

sounds exactly like sex drive

Hi anagram. Maybe you've become too complacent. For someone in my position, who is out working more than he should be but still can''t afford many basic needs, living at home might be an ideal solution to a number of specific problems that have been haunting me for a while. Back in the days when I had money, I think I had issues similar to what you're talking about. I had everything I needed, most of what I wanted (although if you asked me at the time I might have disputed that, but in this case I believe hindsight is usually more accurate), but I was still struggling with depression and becoming stagnant. When you have nothing to work/fight/struggle for, life can get pretty routine and dispassionate. I'm always reading about millionaire couples beating each other in the head with electric can openers because they've achieved "the American dream" and don't know what to do with it, except die.

I'm not comparing myself or anything to your situation, except to say maybe things are too easy for you on a practical level. Why feel the need to push yourself when there's nothing to push against? I spent a large portion of my life just coasting, which I believe contributed to the atrophy of my ambitions and my ability to enjoy the things I worked for. Now that I'm struggling to keep my head above water, I think it's activated a part of my hyper vigilance that was just too much energy to acknowledge in years past. They say people are happiest when they have goals in life. But rather than ask yourself what your goals are, ask yourself why you have to wonder what they are, and how to obtain them. There are a lot of things that influence a person's mindset, and depending on the person, set and setting can be a big one. Things in motion tend to stay in motion, but even more so, the opposite is true. You need stimulation; but stimulation for it's own sake is not always a good idea, and stimulation doesn't just happen.

anagram wrote: i just know that i'm probably going to go crazy again eventually if i keep living with my parents indefinitely without any kind of plan to get out of this limbo. but that's too vague for me to actually do something about it without feeling like i'm just wasting my energy and resources and making things worse in the long run

I'm thinking that what I put in boldface is where the fault in your thinking lies. Of course you feel this way. It's your 21st century survival instinct kicking in. It's going to be annoying and scary but the only way you will break out of your limbo is by shaking things up. A disaster or a tragedy is one way to shake things up, and while I'm not suggesting you murder your parents or set the neighbors house on fire, you should figure out away to clear all the cobwebs from your life before something bad does happen, and you're forced to deal with it. Wouldn't it be better to have to act on your own volition and not as a result of some unseen calamity?

Tell yourself, right now, that you are going to move out of your parents' house. Do whatever you have to do to make it a real plan. Does it feel uncomfortable? Good! Progress has never been born out of comfort.

naps wrote:Tell yourself, right now, that you are going to move out of your parents' house. Do whatever you have to do to make it a real plan. Does it feel uncomfortable? Good! Progress has never been born out of comfort.

that's the thing: the plan is more uncomfortable than my current situation. more uncomfortable and also more of a threat to future security. right now i'm not actually dependent on my parents. they could die and i'd be perfectly fine. but any half-hearted initiative to get out of here would lead me right back into dependence, practically guaranteed

remember that "my flagship disorder" is adhd. vague goals with no concrete rewards that i can actually visualize right now are doomed to failure from the start. if i'm not looking forward to something, then it makes very little difference whether it's logical or not (except that if it does seem logical and i don't seem to be doing whatever i'm supposed to be doing to get there, then i keep beating myself up for it, which gets very discouraging)

for a long time i thought that "if i set the ball rolling, it would keep rolling", but that's just not how it works for me. that's a parasitic thought that i inherited from my upbringing and that i've been struggling to get rid of for years. the ball has been rolling since i was born. this is my life

not that i won't keep trying to trick myself out of stagnation (in fact i just came back from another big trip i had always wanted to do since i was a kid, which is part of why i'm so existential-philosophical right now). but pushing myself for nothing other than logical considerations (i.e. "i know i'll end up going crazy again if i stay here indefinitely") is self-defeating

what i'm looking for is a pull, because i'm just way too resistant to being pushed, even if it's by myself. that's an essential part of my nature, there's no point in fighting against it. if i don't have that push, no amount of discomfort can lead me to progress. but if i do have it, i'm determined and i'm systematic, to the point of moving halfway across the globe all by myself

anagram wrote:any half-hearted initiative to get out of here would lead me right back into dependence, practically guaranteed

By dependence do you mean financial? If so, aren't you financially dependent on your parents right now? Would they help you financially if you did move out? Or is it not that simple?

anagram wrote:vague goals with no concrete rewards that i can actually visualize right now are doomed to failure from the start. if i'm not looking forward to something, then it makes very little difference whether it's logical or not (except that if it does seem logical and i don't seem to be doing whatever i'm supposed to be doing to get there, then i keep beating myself up for it, which gets very discouraging)

Sometimes you have to do "the right thing" or what you're "supposed" to do without really knowing why, other than that you're sure it's the right course of action. When you make a choice to do something because you know it's the right course of action, that in itself should be your reward. There doesn't need to be something concrete. Taking satisfaction from something you've done to improve your life can be empowering. Empowerment is what you need right now.

anagram wrote:pushing myself for nothing other than logical considerations (i.e. "i know i'll end up going crazy again if i stay here indefinitely") is self-defeating

Uh...what better reason to push yourself than logic? Why is it self-defeating? Wouldn't peace of mind be worth whatever effort it took to achieve? I know it would be for me.

anagram wrote:what i'm looking for is a pull, because i'm just way too resistant to being pushed, even if it's by myself. that's an essential part of my nature, there's no point in fighting against it. if i don't have that push, no amount of discomfort can lead me to progress. but if i do have it, i'm determined and i'm systematic, to the point of moving halfway across the globe all by myself

It's possible to interpret this as "All I need is for some luck or a solution to come to me, or maybe a winning lottery ticket, so I'll just continue to be comfortable until that happens because it's soooooo much easier to fret over my situation in comfort than to uncomfortably upend everything in search of a better life"
I should know, that used to be my philosophy. But I think what you were referring to is simply initiative. Inspiration. The urgent need to do something and and enjoy it. Well, if that's it, then this thread has gone full circle because that's exactly my issue. And I haven't a clue. Well. I do, and it involves getting all the other aspects of my life in better order. If I look at it like a puzzle, leaving the above paradox as the last piece, maybe if I fit all the easy, obvious pieces in, the rest will become obvious as well.

naps wrote:By dependence do you mean financial? If so, aren't you financially dependent on your parents right now?

yes, i mean financially. the main reason why i've been living with my parents is because it allows me to keep saving money, which i've been doing for a while. it's not because i need the money right now. right now i have enough savings to last me a full year without income and without anyone's financial assistance. but i didn't have any source of income until just a couple of years ago, and i don't have any concrete reasons to believe i'll keep making money as easily as i am right now

When you make a choice to do something because you know it's the right course of action, that in itself should be your reward.

maybe it "should", but that's irrelevant, because it's not. it simply is not. that's not up to me, and if you say it is, that's exactly that voice of my upbringing in my head that i've been trying to get rid of

There doesn't need to be something concrete.

there does need to be something concrete. again, remember: adhd. there's only so much ritalin i can take

Empowerment is what you need right now.

nope. remember what i said at the beginning of the thread (the "sort of reverse situation" thing). objectively speaking, i've already achieved the things i used to wish for. when i say that "i can be determined to the point of moving halfway across the globe all by myself", it's not a belief, it's history. i've done that already

Uh...what better reason to push yourself than logic? Why is it self-defeating? Wouldn't peace of mind be worth whatever effort it took to achieve? I know it would be for me.

you're missing the point. escaping one undesirable outcome doesn't mean escaping all undesirable outcomes possible. and in fact, acting like it does is exactly what has led me right back to stagnation more than once. i wouldn't be any closer to lasting peace of mind. i would be farther from it

I should know, that used to be my philosophy.

well there you go: you're projecting. it never was mine. i wouldn't even be posting this if it was. right now i have nothing to worry about for the foreseeable future, and that's why i'm deliberately thinking about this. because i'm as far from desperate as it gets. i've been desperate to run away from things most of my life, so this is new to me. but i know that if i just let things be, inertia won't do me any good


it kinda feels like i'm arguing with you, but come to think of it, it's actually making me feel better. it's easy to forget how the way things are is actually a huge improvement over the way things used to be, and it's all thanks to myself. in the end this is more about not wanting to lose what i've attained (sanity, for one thing) than it is about wanting things to be different

and now i can see why this has been bothering me. it's because i don't trust my parents to stay supportive. they've been suspiciously supportive for too long already. that's unlike them. and they're a potential threat to my sanity