Lack of compassion

FragranceOfLilac wrote:

TawtStrat wrote:Who doesn't do it because they want to be liked and accepted? Your therapist maybe? I seriously doubt it.

I think she tried to tell me the same thing as you, actually. But I still drew my own conclusions.

Isn't there something fake about being nice only to be accepted? I think that maybe for some people it's not the primary reason to show compassion. Maybe they just want to share how good they feel inside with others. It would be sad if everyone kind acted kind just out of fear to be rejected.

The philosopher Spinoza said that it's a matter of association and if I love something and I also love you I will want to share that thing with you. Spinoza is considered to be a psychological egoist though, which is to say that we are always basically motivated to act out of self interest. Hobbes, on the other hand, is actually a practical egoist. It amounts to the same thing but what Hobbes is saying is that we wouldn't be like that if we could trust others not to be either. It follows that some people could nevertheless act altruistically in a self defeating sort of way. Let's be clear here. This amounts to a mesiah complex.

Could you please speak simplier? I think I got what you said about Spinoza, but not about Hobbes.

TawtStrat wrote:It amounts to the same thing but what Hobbes is saying is that we wouldn't be like that if we could trust others not to be either. It follows that some people could nevertheless act altruistically in a self defeating sort of way. Let's be clear here. This amounts to a mesiah complex.

If we could trust others not be be like what? And what is the messiah complex?

FragranceOfLilac wrote:Could you please speak simplier? I think I got what you said about Spinoza, but not about Hobbes.

TawtStrat wrote:It amounts to the same thing but what Hobbes is saying is that we wouldn't be like that if we could trust others not to be either. It follows that some people could nevertheless act altruistically in a self defeating sort of way. Let's be clear here. This amounts to a mesiah complex.

If we could trust others not be be like what? And what is the messiah complex?

Hobbes thesis can be looked at as what is known in game theory as a "prisoner's dilemma". Let's suppose that we're both arested and questioned seperately by the police. If I could trust you to cooperate with me rather than with the police I might not betray you and I know that you are in the same position and are unlikely to trust me either, so even though the optimum outcome for us if we are partners is to not defect we both know that the other person is likely to because in this situation it just seems like the rational thing to do.

A person could have a mesiah complex if they take on more than their fair share of responsibility, as avoidants tend to do. This is perhaps why AvPD is thought by some to be on the schizophrenic spectrum. There's also the self deserting or depressive traits that avoidants have, which are consistent with a martyr like complex.

Go work the steps in a 12 step group!

You need a group of people to help you recover; my opinion!

Feedback from others! You get this from a group!