This is so retarded and it's all my fault

It's difficult isn't it? Stuck between wanting to do something for yourself but struggling to do so because of low self-worth and the fear of having others judge you and attack you for daring to put yourself out there.

It's a lame conundrum and the reason why I probably stick at doing very easy things, even with things as mundane as my gaming. Thing is, it's a surefire way of not really going anywhere.

I had an appointment with my psychologist the other day and I spoke to her about me trying to speak to someone and basically facing rejection. I saw the person's 1 worded reply to my sentences as disinterest and a subtle way of telling me to f*ck off. My psychologist tried to make me understand that there are two sides to each coin and that there might have been something going on with the person I'm talking to that made her not wanting to converse. Difficulties, stress, being busy...basically trying to make me understand that there are factors in human interaction that are beyond my scope and that they might influence how things go.

Your story reminded me of that. It also makes me want to start a thread on something I've been pondering on.

Although it is very difficult to do so when you are dealing with avoidance and what comes with it, it's a good thing to try and remember that others have their own motivations and reasons to perhaps give some input somewhere. Their motivation is not wholly due to you or your story.

Creativity is a powerful gift and if you have talent in it, you should definitely pursue it and do it as a way to share your vision of the world and relate your own personal experiences to others. There's always going to be naysayers when it comes to this kind of pursuit, but that's the nature of it ; makes it really difficult to deal with it when you have your inner demons putting you down but maybe you can see your writing as a way to help others. Everyone likes distractions and entertainment, makes it easier to deal with the stress of living. You can also lace your story with morals and things that people can think about. Hell, I know for a fact that powerful art can save lives.

Now, you can't deny yourself the opportunity to make such a difference because someone was arguing in the comments that they prefer their meat well cooked, right?

What I'm talking about is why we do this because you asked. I believe that it is at least in part attention seeking behaviour, or a form of indirect communication. You said quite a lot there about how you would like to be treated and about your expectations from people. As much as you want to deny it this is a wish to impose your standards on others.

TwilightVanguard wrote:I saw the person's 1 worded reply to my sentences as disinterest and a subtle way of telling me to f*ck off. My psychologist tried to make me understand that there are two sides to each coin and that there might have been something going on with the person I'm talking to that made her not wanting to converse. Difficulties, stress, being busy...basically trying to make me understand that there are factors in human interaction that are beyond my scope and that they might influence how things go.

I have a story about this. So I developed a rare hobby and could only find a few people in a social site I never used before to talk to about it. I talked to one person and she was like you describe: 1-worded replies, etc. I talked to her like that for a few days. And I too thought: ok, maybe I'm just being mistaken, maybe she does want to talk to me, maybe she's just timid, etc. But then I decided that rather than torture myself with such thoughts I'd stop communicating with her altogether. Guess what? Later I got to know that she actually disliked me! (too long to tell how, but it's 100% objective). And believe me it hurt like hell, because I tried so hard to be friendly and talk to her, only to have her pretend to be friendly back (in a half-hearted manner).

So my own stance on this would be: if you see someone reacting this way, don't interact with them at all. You'll be tormenting yourself, even if they're just timid, busy, or whatever excuse you come up with. Talk to people who're open and talk to you back, so that you aren't in doubt whether they want to interact.

Now, you can't deny yourself the opportunity to make such a difference because someone was arguing in the comments that they prefer their meat well cooked, right?

I still can't make myself continue the story. I'll try again tomorrow.

-- Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:39 pm --

NoM8s wrote:What I'm talking about is why we do this because you asked. I believe that it is at least in part attention seeking behaviour, or a form of indirect communication. You said quite a lot there about how you would like to be treated and about your expectations from people. As much as you want to deny it this is a wish to impose your standards on others.

I still don't know what it's about. To be honest, I fail to understand most of your posts. Maybe our experiences are extremely different?

OP: This is old news but it's easy to forget: people who troll and leave nasty comments do so from the safety and anonymity of their space behind their keyboard. A nasty comment or your perception of what a completely anonymous person may think of you can bounce around in your head, gaining size and momentum like a snowball rolling downhill. But all this agony is based on a faulty, incomplete perception of someone who most likely isn't representing themselves accurately. We're all ten feet tall and fabulously wonderful on the internet. It's a cowardly and insincere way to communicate. The younger you are the more perilous a place it can be because you've grown up with it; it's seen as just another channel of social interaction when in fact it is not. It's phony, disingenuous, and rife with well disguised liars and fools and has nothing to do with the way human discourse was meant to be.

While I understand that the manner in which you are creating your story online is part of it's appeal, my suggestion is to stop, click off your browser, and complete the story before you post it. Even if you have to do so on another site.

But most importantly: Writing is a personal, solitary undertaking where you are in complete control, even God-like. It comes from a deep, intuitive place inside you where a gift has been bestowed. Thus, it is a very vulnerable thing. Don't put it in harm's way by exposing it to the crass, fraudulent, minefield-laden place that is the internet. As someone who is struggling with their own ability to write, one of the best pieces of advice I've gotten is to NOT share your story/ideas with anyone until you are done with them. Otherwise, your work is no longer speaking to you. A bunch of online randos are. Comments from others can distort and derail the trajectory of your creative process, and in your case, threaten to destroy it. Letting that process play out publicly is not a good idea. It's no different than if Picasso invited a bunch of spastic schoolchildren to come in and work on his painting while he took a break. Until it's finished, it's YOUR story, YOUR ideas, YOUR characters. Don't put them in harm's way until they are solidified. This way, it, and you, will be more resilient to the harsh, cruel reality of the world where, for better or for worse, all creative endeavors are rightfully destined to end up.

Well, I haven't read many books on it but I think that the wikipedia page on AVPD mentions what I'm talking about. I could be projecting here and I'm certainly putting myself in your place when I read your story and think about how it could make you feel. When you go into avoidant mode do you not think about what effect it will have on people? If someone hurts your feelings do you stop speaking to them until you get some sort of apology? I see this as an atempt to define boundaries and I do think that people with this disorder are preoccupied with maintaining control over those, although where there's an inability or unwillingness to assert yourself the tendency is to retreat.

Marcus555 wrote:While I understand that the manner in which you are creating your story online is part of it's appeal, my suggestion is to stop, click off your browser, and complete the story before you post it. Even if you have to do so on another site.

I think this is the most sensible suggestion. Right now, though, I feel like if I stop writing it online, I'll disappoint all readers or make them angry. I know one other person who used to get nasty messages because she didn't continue her story, one reader even went far enough to say that if she doesn't want to continue, then she should just delete it, otherwise it's like deceiving people. She deleted everything after that. I don't want such things to happen to me, I'm so easy to guilt-trip and such messages would make me feel like the lowest scum.

But I will definitely never write a story online again... Only offline!

-- Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:19 am --

NoM8s wrote:If someone hurts your feelings do you stop speaking to them until you get some sort of apology?

That's what my mother used to do, oh those passive-aggressive tactics, I hated that as a kid. But I'm not aggressive enough for stuff like that. What I normally do is feel rejected and miserable and that "I got the reaction that I truly deserved" or "If they hate me, then it proves that I really am hateful".

The stuff I said about wanting people to treat me as a kid mostly came from how I think AvPD people didn't get enough approval as children. And now there's no way to make up for it, because only kids get such approval treats. By approval I don't mean praise, but mostly a feeling of "What I do is right" that I solely lack. Kids often get told that what they do is good or right, so they internalize it and don't feel that their choices and opinions are inadequate. I think AvPD stems from the fact that as a kid, you haven't internalized the feeling that what you do\think\feel is right and correct, so you keep looking for others to evaluate you.

Well, I'm a bit more complicated than that because I did actually have a supportive mother. Believe me, it's not that great when you're being praised in front of a bunch of kids that think it's hilarious and are bullying you at school. It's extremely embarrasing and it feels like she's doing it on purpose to humiliate you. If she isn't then she's just daft and doesn't see you as other people see you just because she's your mother. You don't really take her opinion seriously, except insofar as it pertains to your relationship with her.

An overcritical father can destroy any self confidence that your mother instills in you. You can even start to see the way that she builds you up just for him to knock you down as a bullying tactic and it can make any praise that you get from people confusing.

So yeah, there can be a passive aggressive aspect to my avoidance. It can be about emotional blackmail or just a coping mechanism for dealing with rejection. You maybe salvage a bit of pride by telling yourself that you don't want to be friends with those people anyway. You still feel bad about yourself and you tend to feel even worse when overreacting to it takes the form of passive aggressive behaviour. I tend to think of it as burning bridges and totally alienating people. I would have similar thoughts and feelings to you if my avoidance was triggered but I would tend to resolve the situation by lashing out at them, so that they'll leave me alone and I won't be able to go back even if I want to.

Hi, when I was reading your post, I had to think of a quote of Neil Gaiman (a Novelist, graphic novelist and screenwriter).

“When people tell you something’s wrong or doesn’t work for them,
they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what they
think is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.”


And I don't really know what you discussed with the person in question. But maybe the quote is some food for thought. As an artist myself I've battled many times the fact people don't understand my art (especially at certain school's I attended.) up to a point it got me really down and depressed.
Besides this and because I always wanted to become a video game designer, I kept on doing my own thing regarding my work.

My advice is, even though I still struggle to keep working on my art because of low self esteem, just keep on doing what you dream about becoming/doing. No matter how long it takes, eventually it has to bring you where you want to be. And if not, you can perhaps take solace in the fact you tried.

Hope this helps you a bit (or a lot) and if not, keep on fighting the good fight i guess.

Oh this is just great. Everything was going well, until I actually continued my story and guess what? The very thing I was afraid of, my worst fears, came true. A reader who used to write good comments wrote a bad one. Real bad one, like saying that my story became "boring", "unnatural", etc.

I'm not sure if that's a coincidence that it's the same reader who we argued with on a side topic?

I would think she just wants to hurt me out of revenge of something, but noone else posted anything, which they normally did, and silence is probably a sign that they didn't like new chapters, either.

Strangely, I don't really care because I write for myself. But at the same time I do care, simply because it hurts a lot when someone criticizes me like this. So I don't care if my story is bad, but I care that someone hurt me. Damn, I really don't know how to deal with that. Should I just stop posting it online and write for myself only, or is she exaggerating to hurt me and giving up posting it online would merely allow her to win a big time by hurting me through my already awful self-esteem? I don't know what to do. At all. But now I wish I'd have given up on writing this story without continuing.

J K Rowling didn't like to show her work to people.

Maybe she's not being nice to you anymore because you argued about something. You're taking it really personally and she might be as well. Or maybe she just wants to look like an expert by criticising someone that's prepared to put her work up for it. I had the same sort of criticism and took them to be saying that I was boring them because I wanted to take the story in a direction that they didn't see as the proper way to write a story and they said that they thought that I should edit a lot of it because the pace was too slow for them, even though I had only written a few short chapters and they would probably have been less bored if they hadn't been reading it in little instalments, waiting for "something to happen".

It's a tough one because "think of the reader" is kind of a rule in writing and not everyone is going to like your work but unless you're just writing a diary you should be writing for somebody. Actually, even people writing diaries have an imaginary reader. Anyway, remember that someone can be a fan without liking everything that you do. Maybe there's some point to their criticism. Writing is rewriting and this just sounds like a first draft. You've chosen to interact with readers at a very early stage in the process. That can stifle any ideas that you're excited about before you've had a chance to develop them.