Cynicism and lack of faith in others

Are there any other avoidants here who are cynical of others? I often find it pretty hard to believe that people who I barely know want to assist me out of their sincerity, without some hidden desire.

This can extend to any part of life, from public life to private. An example would be feeling that a doctor is just helping you in some way because they are obliged to and will get paid either way, but still not believing that they really "want" to help you, they are "just doing their job".

Like, "what's the catch"?

Or somehow thinking free therapy won't be "real therapy" because you didn't have to pay for it?

Just generally not thinking others can do things out of the good of their heart, and you have one of those "faith in humanity restored" moments when you see it happen. I guess in this world that's fueled by greed and power this way of thinking might not be so strange.

The lack of faith is a similar thing; it stems from both your own feelings of being so flawed you don't think you can be helped, and the belief that others can't help you...

These are just examples.

Not me personally. I usually expect everyone to be helpful and try their best

...
My dislike of myself doesn't extend to others I guess...

Actually maybe it's because I think everyone is better than me, that I have higher expectations of them???

Oh, for sure, big time. I don't think I'm worthy of anyone's interest. My closest friend, we've been through thick and thin and the bond is absolute, and yet I still don't feel worthy, I feel like I'm a burden, etc. And I literally say when I crash, "I have no faith." My family, of course, forget it. When I'm really bad I consider my son a victim of Stockholm Syndrome. (Though that really makes sense - he has no idea what he's missing, having an introverted avoidant as a parent, he'd have had a whole different expanded social life if he grew up with someone else.)

So if that's how I feel about the people who care about me the most, just imagine what I think about regular folks. I've pissed off so many therapists who try to tell me they care - not realizing that would stop my therapeutic process cold because I'd be worried about disappointing them - when I tell them they are there because they're getting paid. My fierce independence is due to me not ever wanting to feel obligated to someone, so I accept no favors in case someone wants to call them in when I have no energy to reciprocate.

People don't actually do things for the good of their heart. If they do something for someone, they're still getting something out of it, if nothing else a little hit for "being a good person." Even something so small as a basic compliment. And some people do that. But most people keep tallies in their heads. "I've done this for you X amount of times, now you owe me."

Is this what you're talking about?

People are inherently selfish and wrapped up in their own bubble. This combined with our highly acute sensitivity to most things and their general lack of sensitivity leads to avPD people believing that 80% of people do not really care about things that matter to us.

Facebook is a perfect example of this. Every time just about when I scroll through and see people's happy smiling faces and thoughts of how great the world is-- I want to cancel my account! It is so difficult to come to terms with because I have impossibly high standards for acquaintances that I never feel comfortable or feel they are sincere. It is certainly a catch 22.... Because I want that warm, friendly group of caring people to welcome me and uplift my cynical spirits. That warm welcome will never come if I want to run away from others in their happy "bubbles"!!

When others are engaged in lighthearted banter and laughing, talking,and bonding--- it upsets me. What the h--- is wrong with me that that should get under my skin???!!! I know I am not depressed actually-- but maybe having a hard time experiencing joy is the issue

I don't know what the answer is exactly except for to try hard to squelch my stinking thinking as much as possible. This does help me when I change my perspective on things.

I notice others on this blog that have different trains of thought-- they say they are happier when they fully embrace the separation from others and they stop wanting to engage in bonds with people. They discount others desire to work with their disordered thinking and their desire to break free from the hard shell that avPD people have around them. I don't want to get to that stage... I think it would throw me in a real depression. But some avPD people feel the real depression comes when we are always pushing ourselves to do things that don't come naturally to us.

Thoughts?

inverse wrote:My fierce independence is due to me not ever wanting to feel obligated to someone

Same here mostly. I don't want to have to rely on others out of my pride and feeling that I should have independence to fall back on if they stop supporting you. And I don't like others relying on me out of fear that I couldn't support them, and they would quickly see this. Although having someone else believe that you can help them would feel good. Even though I feel that I can get on independently, I can't help others at the same time for extended periods of time.

inverse wrote:Is this what you're talking about?

Yes that is exactly what I mean.

momof3inTN wrote:People are inherently selfish and wrapped up in their own bubble. This combined with our highly acute sensitivity to most things and their general lack of sensitivity leads to avPD people believing that 80% of people do not really care about things that matter to us.

Maybe you're right, the non-highly-sensitive population might just doesn't have a good way of showing it.

momof3inTN wrote:When others are engaged in lighthearted banter and laughing, talking,and bonding--- it upsets me. What the h--- is wrong with me that that should get under my skin???!!!

Like feeling envious of their lives? I get this a lot.

momof3inTN wrote:I notice others on this blog that have different trains of thought-- they say they are happier when they fully embrace the separation from others and they stop wanting to engage in bonds with people.

I've always been a "I've got all the friends I need" sort of person. A small part of me wants to have more social connections, but given my asociality and very poor self-confidence, I would just weight them down, and one day I'd see them move on with their lives whilst I stagnated, so in the end I'd just feel worse. At least with the friends I'm closer to, they are fine with keeping in touch online, and the occasional outing, so I am in no way holding them back.

Yes, I completely relate to this. At work I feel like I have to pressure myself to be like others, but then it ends up badly every time. I get sick and depressed. I have fears that I will lose my job, because I am not like others. I suspect that people don't like me, because I don't socialize enough. But when I do, I feel that I get so exhausted that I cannot do my job properly anymore.

I don't trust my coworkers. They are all normal. None of them has a PD. They all care about furthering their own interests and goals, and I don't see them as nice and helpful, even though they think of themselves this way and others think of them this way too. I have the hardest time at work.

I find my cynicism very healthy, considering how sensitive and gullible I can be. Without it you might as well put a stamp on my forehead that says 'walking victim'.

Auxiliary11 wrote: I don't want to have to rely on others out of my pride and feeling that I should have independence to fall back on if they stop supporting you. And I don't like others relying on me out of fear that I couldn't support them, and they would quickly see this. Although having someone else believe that you can help them would feel good. Even though I feel that I can get on independently, I can't help others at the same time for extended periods of time.

I couldn't have put it better myself. I despise relying on others - I prefer to do everything on my own and I take a great pride in that trait, even though it's definitely reaching unhealthy levels. Also, because of this I have very little patience for people that prefer to depend on others.
Then again, I have little patience for... well, everything...

momof3inTN wrote:People are inherently selfish and wrapped up in their own bubble. This combined with our highly acute sensitivity to most things and their general lack of sensitivity leads to avPD people believing that 80% of people do not really care about things that matter to us.

When I was young and silly (because, ah, I'm so mature and clever now ) I used to be really disappointed in people because of their selfishness. Then I realised that focusing on this is actually a a good way to find some very much needed perspective and slightly reduce my constant anxiety. After all, since they don't care and are so 'wrapped up in their own bubble' then all of my slip-ups, which I perceive as incredibly embarrassing, probably barely register on their radar. And again, if I come off as awkward and strange, well, so what? They don't give a flying fuk anyway, assuming they notice anything in the first place.

For many things in human life, something is only true if you believe it is.
Ergo, whatever thought you have, it is true only if you believe it to be.
Its like when you buy something, say a red car, and then you suddenly see a lot of red cars or exact same make/model/color of the car you bought, but you never used to see them before, even though those cars where passing you by as they are now (I think there is a name for this phenomenon but I don't know it).

What I would say is that what you may not be considering is that other people do not share in your beliefs and that other people may have a different outlook/mindset which dictates and controls their actions and lead them to act in ways that you experience, or are suspicious of, etc.
Being paid is simply obtaining the means with which everyone needs to live, rather than only being given in recognition of work carried out. So a doctor or therapist may not care how much money they earn as long as what they get to do each day is to try to help people, which is what some of them are genuinely motivated to do.

Another thing that must be said, I think, is how the word "selfish" has been hijacked and changed to mean the opposite of what it really does mean. It means to take care of oneself, in all ways, because if we are not taking care of ourselves and doing right by ourselves, we are not being our true selves and neither are we giving other people the best of who we are. Ideas about "sacrifice" and "serving others" before ourselves or instead of ourselves have, I believe, been invented & promoted by religious ideologies in order to have their aims, needs and desires met, for free, with endless myths and expressions of how the person will be rewarded "spiritually".

This concept seem to have been heavily laid at the feet of women, who have often taken on such an idea with gusto and zeal, but as they all find out in time, it all comes at a heavy price - their self and their lives. So in modern society, we venerate those who give up their lives to "serve others", when we should be extremely sad that people do so, for they lose their own lives in living this way.

I believe and think it is fine for someone to help others, if they can, if they wish to and when they are doing so from a position of strength. But never at the expense of their own self and life.

momof3inTN wrote:People are inherently selfish and wrapped up in their own bubble. This combined with our highly acute sensitivity to most things and their general lack of sensitivity leads to avPD people believing that 80% of people do not really care about things that matter to us.

I see it the opposite way. When I see happy people, surrounded by many friends and family, I assume that they must be good friends, caring, considerate etc. It takes effort to maintain relationships.

Personally, I feel like it is me who is in my 'own bubble' and self-absorbed. Too worried about what other people think to be a decent friend to others

Plenty of interesting viewpoints and covering the whole spectrum so far.

You can definitely run across a lot of bad people - they'll stab you in the back, abuse you, find out what makes you tick and then crush you, you name it (some will even feel guilty about it after the fact). Then there are ones that just aren't into that and might simply be wanting to help, for whatever reason - thinking it's the right thing to do and you fit the profile (yes that can come off as rude), they like you, or they just operate that way.

So there are lots of people out there, some good, some bad, some awesome, others pure evil. How to find out who they really are though? That's usually what's so tough, especially for an avoidant who can't risk being too wrong. So cynisism is quite well placed if you have been burned but isn't the whole story either, not that I have come up with an answer to this dilemma.

As for greed and corporations and all that, yes, that is a big problem and relevant but usually in a rather big, vague, monolithic way. People comprising these entities are still whoever they are like cogs in the big machine, working for it but otherwise disconnected from its larger purpose.

Another thing that must be said, I think, is how the word "selfish" has been hijacked and changed to mean the opposite of what it really does mean. It means to take care of oneself, in all ways, because if we are not taking care of ourselves and doing right by ourselves, we are not being our true selves and neither are we giving other people the best of who we are.

This is a rather intriguing way to look at it, perhaps if they renamed the word to "self supporting" or something more neutral it wouldn't have all these negative connotations?